so im in arizona ive heard this many times that i can buy a pistol if its person to person sales at the age of 18 if this is true can i carry it in a waist holster not consealed? im pretty sure you have to be 21 to get a ccw but thats for consealed
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January 25, 2007, 12:38 AM
Federal law supersedes State law and Federal law prohibits the purchase, possession of a handgun by anyone not 21 years of age with the exception of those engaged in active military service while on duty. No one can legally sell a person under the age of 21 a handgun and are subject to criminal prosecution for doing so.
A person older than 21 may lend you a firearm they legally possess for the purpose of target shooting or hunting but they must remain in control of it prior to the activity and immediately afterwards. "My friend lent it to me 3 weeks ago for hunting and target shooting" isn't going to fly in court if its in your possession when you are obviously not doing those activities.
I know its a bummer having to wait until you are 21 but suck it up because we all went through it. Remember that if a cavalier attitude toward the law or beliefe that you can circumvent it and you may loose your right to possess any firearm in the future.
Federal Fireams Law:
The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:
* Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
* Fugitives from justice.
* Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
* Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
* Illegal aliens.
* Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
* Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
* Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
* Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
* Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
* Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
It is unlawful to sell or transfer a firearm to a “prohibited possessor.”
January 25, 2007, 12:43 AM
You can buy one, you won't get in trouble it will just get confiscated if youre caught with it. However the person who sells it to you is breaking the law and can be prosecuted for doing so. Be responsible if someone 21 or older offers you a handgun tell them "no thank you I'm not old enough". You'll be doing whoever wants to sell it to you a favor by not getting them in trouble.
We all know how hard it is to wait until your 21, for many reasons. If you want guns buy rifles that you really like:evil:
To answer your other question, open carry is legal but the gun must be visible to certain degree, but don't concern yourself with that right now, wait until you can apply for a ccw. Unless you can shoot well and know the responsibilities of carrying a weapon you shouldnt carry. There are a lot of laws to understand and even if you have to shoot someone justly the cost of using deadly force (both in money and psychologically) can be a heavy burden, especially if you have to explain why your were carrying a gun if youre under 21. Just something to keep in mind.
January 25, 2007, 12:58 AM
This is all news to me. I have owned handguns before I turned twenty one in AZ and it was always explained to me that for a person to person sale you only had to be 18. I have been pulled over, before I turned 21, and told the LEO that there is a handgun in the car. They never cared. You cannot purchase a new hand gun from an ffl or purchase hand gun ammo until you are twenty one. I have open carried under twenty one and never had a problem. I carried concealed when I turned twenty one and my permit was approved and sitting comfortably in my wallet. I will be shocked if some one can prove to me otherwise.
January 25, 2007, 01:09 AM
you have to be 21 to buy a handgun from a FFL holder. 18 to buy from a nonFFL holder
790.17 Furnishing weapons to minors under 18 years of age or persons of unsound mind and furnishing firearms to minors under 18 years of age prohibited.--
(1) A person who sells, hires, barters, lends, transfers, or gives any minor under 18 years of age any dirk, electric weapon or device, or other weapon, other than an ordinary pocketknife, without permission of the minor's parent or guardian, or sells, hires, barters, lends, transfers, or gives to any person of unsound mind an electric weapon or device or any dangerous weapon, other than an ordinary pocketknife, commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2)(a) A person may not knowingly or willfully sell or transfer a firearm to a minor under 18 years of age, except that a person may transfer ownership of a firearm to a minor with permission of the parent or guardian. A person who violates this paragraph commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(b) The parent or guardian must maintain possession of the firearm except pursuant to s. 790.22.
January 25, 2007, 01:10 AM
The restrictions on handgun sales to those under 21 apply only to licensed persons (FFL's).
(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
B5) Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition?
Yes, a person who –
(1) Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;
(2) Is a fugitive from justice;
(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
(4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;
(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship;
(8) Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner; or
(9) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
(10) Cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm.
A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm.
Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information.
(B14) May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?
Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.
[18 U.S.C. 922(x)]
January 25, 2007, 01:28 AM
yes i know i can buy it as long as its not from an FFL in the state of arizona but can i carry it not consealed
January 25, 2007, 01:32 AM
Have you tried checking the state regulations?
Here's a head start. Go to www.packing.org and read their summary for AZ, then follow the link to the actual state law (should be on the right hand side) and make sure the summary is correct.
Tell us what you find.
January 25, 2007, 01:35 AM
TheSunDanceKid, Yes you can open carry when you are 18 or older and legally allowed to own a fire arm. It has to be visible though and you cannot carry in places that you would not normally be allowed to carry a weapon, such as the post office or schools. Talk with a local LEO sometime and ask him for specifics.
January 25, 2007, 01:43 AM
thanks tank thats exactly what i wanted to know yea i will talk to some LEO's about it also before i do deside to just making sure i was in the right derection on it yes i have checked state laws as long as its person to person sell and they arnt a FFL i can purchase i mean it would make sence if you can buy legaly you can transport it as long as its not consealed i have owned a 9mm tec-9 DC and i did buy ammo from gun store for some reason they didnt consider it a pistol ah im sure it wasnt legal on that ill just have my dad buy ammo he doesnt have guns or shoot but ive had to have him buy me ammo for my rifles before for some reason some walmarts have this crazy idea you need to be 21 to buy 30-06 and .300 ammunition
January 25, 2007, 01:43 AM
My step son was arrested 2 months ago for being in being a minor in unlawful possesion of a handgun here in Tucson, Az. He is 19 our lawyer after having his paralegals research it 7 ways from Sunday finally concluded that Freddy was screwed and it is a felony BTW which means he will now never be able to legally posses any firearm,
Here is what it comes down to, it will #1 depend on the cop who catches you and his attitude at that moment, You can posess one on your own private property, You cannot posses one legally outside of your own private property UNLESS you are target practicing or hunting While accompanied by an adult. A shooting range (and this is gonna sound silly but its true) cannot even let ya use a handgun on their range unless ya have a written permission slip from your parents in your possesion, the no handguns under 21 is used extensivly to deal with gang bangers............ if minor is cruisin around and gets stopped (a "GP" stop, very common in AZ) the officer might not be able to "prove" he has commited any crime BUT junior has a handgun, in plain sight.... well now the officer can legally take him into custody and also search the vehicle, if he's in a known gang area it gets even better....
its all up to you, I know Pima county WILL prosecute for the charge, cost us $5,000 to find it out :(
January 25, 2007, 02:08 AM
heres something i found on the subject and im in gilbert az threw maricopa county i was stoped with the tec-9 DC before with it in my truck no questions were asked it was in the designated case i informed them it was there the only thing he asked was where i got it a freind of mine had purchaced it threw an FFL and sold it to me which later i actually sold to a LEO so i dont know how it is in tucson but here i guess it is different a friend of mine was in the same situation your son was in he was caught with a .45 he is 18 but he was ONLY charged with the concealment of it which was later droped because they asked how the cop knew he had it and he said he saw it from the back of his waist in a holster lol not to bright to arrest him on a constealment charge if he saw the weapon prior to confronting him then admiting it to the judge
B. Prohibiting Certain Transfers and Possession
The GCA made it unlawful for certain persons to receive firearms, and made it a felony for an FFL to transfer a firearm knowing, or having reasonable cause to believe, that the transferee is prohibited from receiving the firearm. Subsequent amendments made it unlawful for any person to knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person, and made it unlawful for the following categories of prohibited persons to possess a firearm:
Drug addicts or unlawful drug users;
Persons committed to mental institutions or adjudicated as "mentally defective";
Persons dishonorably discharged from the armed forces;
Persons who have renounced their United States citizenship;
Illegal or nonimmigrant aliens;
Persons subject to certain domestic violence restraining orders; and
Persons convicted of misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence.
The GCA also prohibits anyone under a felony indictment from receiving or transporting a firearm. In addition, with certain limited exceptions, juveniles under 18 years of age may not possess handguns. Finally, the GCA makes it unlawful for an FFL to transfer a handgun to anyone under the age of 21, or a long gun to anyone under the age of 18. Young people between the ages of 18 and 21 may still buy handguns from non-licensed sellers in the secondary market, and there are no age restrictions on the transfer of rifles and shotguns by non-licensed sellers.
January 25, 2007, 02:13 AM
I just checked the State statutes. 18 and up are perfectly legal to carry openly. There's state pre-emption so it can't be a county thing.
Was he under 18? Did he not have enough holster showing and get popped on concealed without a permit? Had he been adjudicated a juvenile delingquent previously? If not, he shouldn't have been charged and if he was the case should have been thrown out by the judge.
I'm not challenging that he was charged but there's got to be more to the story. I'd be interested to hear the reasoning your lawyer came up with. All those hunting and such exemptions explicitely say minor and detail the age up to 17 only.
January 25, 2007, 02:39 AM
yet another question i have say if i were to buy a pistol from like gunbroker or a site that has private sellers now if it hast to be shiped to an FFL would that be considered purchacing it from an FFL which id have to be 21 to do?
January 25, 2007, 02:47 AM
Yes.....thats purchasing thru an FFL and you have to be 21.
If you fill out a form 4473 on a handgun your going to need to be 21.
January 25, 2007, 02:53 AM
hmm well i can have my dad buy it for me not a problem there pretty much im looking for a law/bill something legal i can actually print out and carry with me so if confronted i can show to a LEO and it can be looked up and confirmed
January 25, 2007, 02:54 AM
No one can legally sell a person under the age of 21 a handgun and are subject to criminal prosecution for doing so.
Not so in GA, as long as the seller if not an FFL and the buyer is 18 or over it is not a problem.
hmm well i can have my dad buy it for me not a problem there
Thats called a "straw purchase" and that is 100% illegal.
January 25, 2007, 02:57 AM
doe lol i can buy it from a friend though eh of course a non FFL one
January 25, 2007, 03:02 AM
Its all about intent. I'm not trying to bust your ba**s but if you have someone buy it for you, so that you can buy it off of them, its straw. If your friend buys it for himself, doesnt like it, and then puts it up for sale, you have full rights to buy it. I suggest keeping it legal. It would be a real pain for you to turn 21 and not be able to get your CCL because of some technical mistake you made when you were 18.
January 25, 2007, 03:04 AM
Your dad can buy it as a gift, with his money, planning to give it to you, but he can't buy it for you (i.e. using your money or being compensated).
Technically, dad could buy it and then later re-sell it to you as a private sale, but that's pushing the spirit and letter of the law, since it's obvious (given you're talking about it) he was just buying it because you couldn't. That's a straw purchase in word and deed.
Don't mess around with straw purchases. If dad wants to buy a gun to give you, leave it at that. Alternately, buy it yourself privately or have him buy it privately and give it to you.
That link I posted is the actual state statute. If you want anything else I'd recommend talking to your local DA (not cop, many cops aren't as up on the law as they should be) and seeing if they'd write you up their current interpretation of the statute. It should be worth the paper it's written on if you get stopped.
January 25, 2007, 03:22 AM
naw i wasnt talking about a straw purchace i was talking about a friend that already has one i wont get exactly what i want but some one where close to what i want
January 25, 2007, 04:33 AM
I believe you are right that an individual sale is legal to anyone over 18. I agree with Dstorm that it depends on the officer who questions you about it when he walks past you or stops you in your vehicle to decide what action to take. It may be legal but the officer may not fully be aware of the law and may decide to confiscate the weapon and take you downtown to clear up the case. You really do need to check with someone who is very familiar with AZ gun laws, look at all the misunderstanding on this thread, people interpret laws in different ways and hear different things.
From a personal perspective I think its a real mistake to be caught with a gun open or concealed in public if your under 21, and I don't to carry open even though I am well over 21. Youre just asking for trouble and even though you might have a legal right to carry, most people around you on the street don't know that. I wish you the best I'm sure youre responsible and all that, I would just be careful on your decision and check the laws before you do anything. Don't make a rash decision that could prevent you from owning guns down the line.
You may find this helpful:
January 25, 2007, 05:13 PM
When I open carry I try to look as respectable as possible. I wear button down shirts and nice pants, comb my hair and shave. My pants are sitting where they are suposed to and I try to appear as friendly as I can. I never open carry wearing dingey clothes and looking like a bum. It is all about appearances and people don't even notice when you are nicely dressed. But open carry while dressing like a street hoodlum and you are asking for trouble.
January 25, 2007, 05:18 PM
In Michigan, I can sell/give my pistols to my daughter when she turns 18. From an FFL-holder...21. I asked the county police the last time I registered a pistol and they told me this.
January 25, 2007, 06:05 PM
I don't mean to bust chops, either, but . . .
pretty much im looking for a law/bill something legal i can actually print out and carry with me so if confronted i can show to a LEO and it can be looked up and confirmedSomething else you might want to have available to show an officer is a copy of your certificate showing that you completed the same training as someone licensed to carry concealed. That would go a long way in persuading this officer that you were on the up-and-up.
Now some questions:
What is your purpose for wanting to carry a handgun openly, other than that you're allowed to under AZ law?
Besides time spent shooting the TEC-9 and any other firearms, have you had any formal training on firearms?
I may have some more questions later, but will wait to see the answers to the above.
January 25, 2007, 06:06 PM
In Colorado they claim that open carry is legal. The cops call it "disturbing the peace" which isn't "legal". Of course, they see no irony in this.
January 26, 2007, 01:28 AM
If I were you, I wouldn't feel comfortable open carrying unless you had a letter from the DA with his interpretation of the laws (saying that it is legal for you to openly carry). You would also have to be sure that it was never covered up by any clothing at all. Otherwise it would be seen as concealed carry.
January 26, 2007, 01:35 PM
carebear, there is more to it in that the area he was in is a large part of the problem, Freddy is what ya'd call a "problem child" he did not have the gun in a holster it tucked in his waistband but not covered the officer admitted to the DA that when he had My step son exit the vehicle it was clearly visible, the initial stop was in a known gang area with zero tollerance signs all over the place, Freddy is a wannabe and not even allowed at our home unless he calls first because of the stupidity so my wife drew a hard line.............
I suspect that alot of the problem isn't in the reports, that being his mouth.... I am an EX LEO and know all to well how comments made can go from officer directly to DA without ever touching paper but will determine how harshly the prosecuter does their job..
January 26, 2007, 02:30 PM
Ah, he mostly failed the "hello" test. That's too bad.
I guess all that you can do from this point is the old "hope it encourages him to straighten his life out". Which doesn't seem to work too often unfortunately.
That's a good lesson though. Meet the letter of the law AND try real hard to meet the "honest citizen" appearance and attitude standards.
January 27, 2007, 01:01 AM
I no longer open carry very much, too much hassle, but I never ran into a LEO who really cared much. Then again Im usually clean shaved with a high fade haircut. The only time a police officer ever confronted us, was at the movie theater. It was a posted place with a tiny sign on the bottom of the far right of about ten doors. All he said was for us to please put our pistols in the car.
January 27, 2007, 03:07 AM
All I know is I saw DMX walking around an Arizona super market(on his show) with his pistol on his hip. No not a movie, but a documentary type show.
I hear the same for Texas is that true? It's all right as long as it's not concealed?(remember I'm not stating, I'm asking)
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