[Electrified]

I'm new to the art of handgunning and trying to learn all I can. I recently purchased a Ruger P345 and want to know what is everyones recommendations is that I should use for personal protection ammo when carrying my 45. I practice with FMJ's. Any input would be appreciated.
Bob

[universal]

You should get hollow point ammo for defense. In .45ACP, I suggest a 230 grain load from one of the big ammo companies like Speer, Remington, Federal or Winchester.

Let me add something. This is a piece of advice that I wish I had gotten back when I started out shooting handguns: don't overthink your ammo choice. By this I mean, don't worry too much about what you carry for defense. As long as it is from a good company like the four I mentioned (and I am sure there are others too) and it works in your particular gun, don't worry about it. Too many people get worked up about having the latest and greatest thing. As long as you hit what you are shooting at, the ammo is secondary.

[ArchAngelCD]

To add something else to universal's good post, you need to use the ammo your gun likes. Some seni-autos don't play well with some ammo.

I bought some Speer 9mm ammo for my son's PT111 Pro and I had several failures with it. It jamed twice and misfired once within 3 full mags. I was very surprised since I have never heard a bad thing about Speer Gold Dot ammo and I even use it in my 2 revolvers. Federal Hydra-Shok ammo worked flawlessly in his PT111 Pro though. Their 135 gr worked the best since it hit where you aimed. The 124 gr stuff worked just a well but hit a little low as lighter ammo usually does. The Speer ammo was the first ammo in which the Mill Pro had a problem with. I'm guessing it's the very large hollow point that caused the problem.

Bottom line, buy a few top brands of SD ammo and find the one that you can shoot well and works well in your gun.

[HeedJSU]

another good idea is, once you find a round you think you like, go buy another 50 rounds and put them all through your piece in one trip to the range. That way you know beyond a reasonable doubt that you can be comfortable with your choice. I've found that just running a clip or so through your gun does not give you time to be comfortable with a round or to fully know what to expect.

Just my 2 cents.

Justin

[GlenJ]

I used standard velocity 230 grain hollow points when I carried a .45. Reasons being, if it expanded great and if it didn't it would probably work well also. In other words I don't think you have to worry a lot about ammo selection with a .45.

[ZeSpectre]

My thoughts on the matter in two parts

Part 1: Ammunition effectiveness
Selecting your self defense ammunition can be as easy or hard as you want it to be. You can range from "advice from one trusted source" all the way to spending hours pouring over specifications and reports from thousands of researchers as well as anecdotial evidence from other shooters.

The truth is that not a lot of ammunition has extensive real-world testing (somebody is actually shot with it) or even when the real-world testing happens, it sure isn't under anything resembling scientific conditions. (Don't take that statement the wrong way, I'm glad that this "testing" doesn't happen but it means we're making our choices from severely curtailed data unlike hunters who have LOTS of real-world data to work from)

In the end the best I think you can do is find a general trend that meets what you want to accomplish and find a round or rounds that meet it. Nothing will be perfect and even a "perfect" round would be faced with all the variables of an imperfect world if (God forbid) you should have to use it.

Almost any higher end round from a well known manufacturer will probably get the job done.

Part 2: Practical function advice
Select some candidates and put a decent number of rounds (50-100) of each through your gun. You want ZERO malfunctions and I do mean ZERO. (Side note: If you can't get past this part with any ammo, you need a different gun for self defense).

Out of the ammo that works well you can see if there is one type or another that you shoot especially accurately, or are most comfortable with.

Now buy a box (say of 50) of that round. Shoot about 20 rounds from -that- box for practice and have the rest on hand for SD purposes. The point is to test from that lot of rounds because variations can happen from lot to lot. If you buy another box, shoot about 20 from that box as well.

Oh and finally, don't get too married to any one ammo. For example I use very different ammo in my "house gun" vs my "carry gun" and also things are changing all the time and the greatest thing today may not hold a candle to something some research genius comes up with next month.

[RustyShackelford]

Most LEOs use .45acp 230gr JHP +P rounds. I'd look into the Speer Gold Dot JHP 200gr +P or 230gr JHP +P. The Remington Golden Saber 230gr/200gr JHP(bonded) rounds look good too. For spare mags/reloads I'd use a factory 230gr FMJ load, Federal EFMJ .45acp or maybe the CorBon/PowRball .45acp ammo. If you need to use a reload in a critical incident you need 100% function and also may need to fire through a thick barrier.

If you plan to carry/store your .45acp in an urban area or anywhere a lot of people may be close by, I'd look into the Glaser Silver Safety slugs or Magsafe .45acp rounds. These loads are not cheap but will be a great benefit under some conditions.

Note: Check your carry/defense loads and keep them clean/dry. Do not use reloaded or hand loaded ammo for protection/duty use, only factory loads.

All the best;
RS
:cool:

[Sven]

If you do get premium ammo, buy a couple boxes and do not be afraid to practice with it, doing defensive-style drills (double tap to chest... wait... then one to head).

The recoil of the higher powered ammo can be a bit of a shock after shooting light loads. I think a lot of people are afraid to practice with their SD ammo because it can cost 50 cents a round or more... but still...

[Ndenway]

I've got the p90 ruger, its not picky about any ammo it'll feed and shoot, but it's partial to hornaday 200gr+P xtps,

but for your self defence ammo, whichever it be Rem-Fed-Winny-Speer-Hornaday-Magtech ect.,

you should buy and fire at least fifty rounds of each brand and weight to see what your gun prefers,

after you find a brand/bullet wieght thats functions and is accurate, then buy another 500 rnd (preferably more) and shoot it,

get used to how it recoils, where it prints on target, and to make sure its as reliable as possible since you'll be trusting your life to it (no firearm/ammo is 100% reliable througouts its lifetime, it will jam/misfire at some point, you just want to make sure its not with your defence ammo),

I don't know how reliable the 345 is, but its been my experience with my P90 that it's the most reliable 45acp pistol I've ever owned, it will load and fire almost any brand or weight I put in it, reloads or factory,

I've had one jam in 12k+ rounds and it was with some china sport 230 hardball, the case was outsized.

[duke40]

Anything 180 or up in a hollow point will work OK. If you can handle +P, go for it. Otherwise, I like the Federal HydraShock 230 grain. For high pressure ammo, I like CorBon 200 grain and also DoubleTap (http://www.doubletapammo.com) ANYTHING! It's that good!

[Clipper]

I don't plan on shooting through any engine blocks, and accuracy and controlability are what I value most. I, like most, I suspect, use WallyWorld WWB hardball for practice, but then I stoke up with Winchester 185gr silvertip HPs for (Taurus MP PT-145) carry. I can unload all 11 rounds onto a 12" gong (I suspect I could reduce the diameter of that gong several inches and still be on target, but it's not my gong) at 10 yards in about 3 seconds, because I'm not dealing with excessive recoil. Noise & flames don't help if you can't pull back down on target quickly enough...

[Old Fuff]

I don't think very many of you folks are going to like me… :uhoh:

My .45 automatics and big-bore revolvers are usually loaded with something other then hollow-point/ high performance ammunition. Why? Because I don’t believe they make all that difference in the real world. Those big expanded tunnels you see in jelly are temporary, and don’t relate to human or animal tissue, which is elastic. The primary hole does, and emergency room surgeons I’ve discussed the matter with tell me that they can’t really tell what kind of middle or large sized bullet made the wound until (or if) they recover the slug. They can tell between a small .22 or .25 projectile vs. a larger one. So is a smaller bullet equal to a bigger one? Sometimes yes, if it can penetrate and hits the right vital organ. But in general the advantage lies with the larger one, and the old saying about carrying a .45 because they don’t make a .50 does have some validity.

It’s been known for some time that if the hollow nose of a bullet becomes filled with some external material it’s more likely to implode rather then expand.

What is far more likely to stop an attack then bullet design or construction, is bullet placement. In other words making a direct hit on a vital organ, preferably in the central nervous system. Here you are dealing with a relatively small target that’s protected by bone structure. Wounds that might prove to be fatal, but are not instantly disabling leave you with an assailant that can continue to attack. Instantly disabling should be the first and foremost intent of anyone who has the bad luck to get into a confrontation.

While it a much lesser consideration in revolvers then pistols, those who carry or use automatics should always give first consideration to what ammunition is most functionally reliable in their handgun. Whatever works, works. But be sure it works – all the time under any circumstances.

In conclusion, I would call to the attention to those that think that a particular bullet or load will always save their bacon, we have the example where recently some officers in the New York City Police Department pumped some 13 to 16 (reports vary) high performance/hollow point/.40 caliber bullets into a suspect, and he survived and is still with us. Would have solid points made any difference? I doubt it. The point is that none of those slugs connected with something vital. :scrutiny:

Now you can go back to your discussion of what’s best, and of course flame away if you want to. Worry not; the Old Fuff has a thick skin. ;)

[gyp_c2]

...whatever works 100% in the pistol you carry...

...and it'll still punch a .45 hole...If in doubt, punch more holes...:scrutiny:

[Plink]

Bob, I'd take a look at the offerings from Double Tap Ammo. They use the proven Speer Gold Dot bullet, driven at velocities that the overpriced Cor-Bon can only dream of, and all of that within standard, non +P pressure. They're also priced about the same as typical premium ammo from the major makers and I've had very good accuracy in all guns I've tried it in. After a LOT of testing, they've convinced me enough to be the load I trust my life to. Just my $0.02.

[Geronimo45]

One one point four three millimeter full metal jacket. :cool:

[sm]

Agree with Old Fuff.
Folks are not going to like me either.

Gun has to feed and extract.
Semi-Autos also need for the magazine to work as the magazine is part of the working handgun.

Find ammunition that feeds, extracts and shoots POA/POI best for that gun.
After all shot placement is paramount!

Shot placement cannot occur if gun does not feed , extract and go where aimed.

Each firearm has its preferences, even guns coming off the assembly line can have different preferences. So it matters not one whit what TEEM SEEL uses, some fella down the street or what read on Internet. If that ammunition does not work in YOUR gun for YOU - what good is it?

Now...taking the respected sharing of Mas Ayoob into account and legalese. IF...IF your gun should be reliable, feed, extract and shoot POA/ POI with a loading a LEO dept uses - great!
If it does not - then what good is ammunition that does not ignite, feed, or extract?

Aside.
My Mentors stressed feeding, extraction and POA/ POI.
They /we shot dirt. We called it the Scientific Shoot Mud/ Dirt Test.
Why?
Back in the day a lot of the offerings did not exist that do today on ammunition and reloading supplies. They shot handgun, rifle and shotgun ammunition to see how it performed - did the bullets/ pellets/ slugs deform, come apart or what have you.
Of interest is, actual recovered bullets from game hunted, very often , very closely replicated shooting the SMD/T .

For a bit I worked in the Main OR.
We would get Shooting victims.
Many times we could not tell what caliber made the hole, until the bullet was removed.
I have seen the .22short kill, the person survive a load of buckshot, the person stick a full house loading of .357 in his mouth and pull the trigger survive.
One fellow cussing up a storm after being shot by .45ACP, .357. .38spl, .380 and the most damage wound - .32ACP. He survived.

Focus more on situational awareness, training , learning the gun and everything.
Focus on threat/ targets - not equipment.

Steve

[Electrified]

I really appreciate all the input. Didn't really expect so much. This is a wonderful forum for learning. I agree with all who say that shot placement is the most important aspect self defense. I know I need to concentrate on that....Thanks again for all the advice.....
Bob

[bruss01]

I have a Ruger P345.

I trust Winchester Ranger +P and Hornady TAP +P.

See if these feed fine in yours (they should, I've never had a problem) and if they do then your search is over.

Do I trust these with my life? My nightstand handgun, the P345, has 3 loaded magazines full of these. 'nuff said.

[RustyShackelford]

I wanted to add this suggestion. W-W Ranger loads may be hard to find but many US law enforcement agencies use it. The Ranger SXT 230gr JHP .45acp load works great.

Rusty
;)

[pancrase]

Federal Premium Hydra-Shok

[xd45gaper]

Winchester Ranger +P thats what i carry in my 45 GAP

i also carry the Corbon 200 grners the ones that are solid copper they are pretty wicked looking lol

from what ive read with the GAP you get a bit more preformance from the 200gn bullets vs. the 230's (my magazines actually have both in them really no reason for it just personal prefernce)

in my .38 i carry speer gold dot +p and i beleve they are 120grns (not sure the dog chewed up the box they came in)

really its personal prefernce because there isnt enough data out there to accuratly tell what round is the best at stopping an attack!

but i would defently go with a JHP with a +P rating (if your handgun allows it) and ive read mixed reviews about using handloads for self defence.

www.theboxotruth.com has some good info on the affects of differnt types of Ammo and how they are affected by certain objects.

[JERRY]

the easiest rule of thumb from a legal stand point is to use what the cops use....as you know, many p.d./s.o. are governed by a bunch of civilian Nancys that have to pick the ammo of the "least offensive" nature.....


so.....your Highway Patrol, Sheriff's Dept. or local P.D. most likely have a descent h.p. round that has passed the p.c. crowds guide, should you ever end up in court and having to explain why you pick killer brand x bullets to end the life or a guy who was "just starting to turn his life around"....

this is for the folks who live in commie states or those on the brink of it....


for folks in free states, carry any name brand h.p. that functions 100% in YOUR GUN.

[DawgFvr]

Corbon DPX all copper bullets...in all my pistols...practice as well as carry.

[xd45gaper]

ha thats what they are the DPX! you must be a millionare to practice with those DawgFvr because for my .45GAP they are around 1$ a bullet(and thats on sale)!!

also do you know if they make these in a .38spl? ive looked around in local gun shops and have not seen any.

[rustymaggot]

read up at firearmstactical.com lots of info.

any round that meets minimum penetration requirements and feeds and fires out of your gun with 100% reliability is what id recomend.

[Donut]

ha thats what they are the DPX! you must be a millionare to practice with those DawgFvr because for my .45GAP they are around 1$ a bullet(and thats on sale)!!

also do you know if they make these in a .38spl? ive looked around in local gun shops and have not seen any.

Yes, they do, but only in the +P flavor. I believe it's a 110gr DPX bullet at 1200 fps?

[xd45gaper]

im going to have to find some now, i carry +ps in my smith now so no biggie :)

[Donut]

Part #DPX38110/20

But I just noticed a discrepency.

On CorBon's site, they list two different ballistic specs, on two different pages for the same part number:

http://www.dakotaammo.net/lawenforcement/law.htm - 1200fps/342 ft-lbs
http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/dpx.htm - 1050fps/269 ft-lbs

Maybe because the second one shows as fired through a 2-inch barrel, and the first doesn't make any mention of barrel length? Dunno, but I wish they made a standard pressure load.

[elprofeloco]

Lots of good info posted here.

My personal preferences are:

Semi-auto: Remington Golden Sabre, mostly due to the rounded nose configuration which has been the most reliable JHP feeder for me (as opposed to designs that have a sharp leading edge, and sometimes hang up resulting in FTF). Rem GS also have good expansion and velocity/energy - not the best, but very good.
I sometimes use/load Corbon ammo for higher velocity - their Pow'r Ball polymer tip also yields reliable feeds and DPX has great expansion and velocity. Corbon is pricey.

Revolver: I use Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. (the "short barrel" load) in my .38 snub. Speer Gold Dots would be a second or third choice for me in semi-autos also - and maybe a first choice in many other revolver calibers.

REGARDLESS, ya gotta fire a box or so of your short-list choices through your handgun of choice - and let the weapon, your hand, accuracy, and comfort determine the best choice for you. Then fire many more boxes for practice.

[whited]

I have autoloaders, and I generally only have one requirement for my SD
ammunition, as long as its from a good brand. I like the shoulders on mine
to be pretty high, or as close to being a ball round as possible.
Example: Remington Gold Sabre = too low for my liking.
These also have dramatic hollow point ridges and effects.
Example: Cor-bon = nice and high shoulders.
These are more rounded and tight in my opinion.

In my mind the higher and rounder the JHP profile is, the more reliable it
will be, other things being equal. I could be wrong about this.

[mike4guns]

i agree with the corbon reliability . hornady though +p xtp's are more straight/low shouldered i find good feeding in sig's and glocks(which is mostly what i carry) maybe someone might have thoughts on winchester products. i just bought 8 boxes of win ranger 230grain +P hp's and 8 boxes of ranger 230grain BONDED hp's . should i have bought all +P's ? in other words if i used all the +p's for practice(which i would not do due to price) would i have concerns of constant +p usage in my sigs and glocks ? the sig's are all metal guns and the glocks well we know what they are... i figured i would save the +p's for carry rotation and use the bonded regular 230grain hp's for whatever range use comes up. the bonded rangers are not t-series ammo and have regular low pressure ratings (nothing special says winchester customer service) "they are not as expansion prone as the sxt rangers but still good expanders under the correct conditions". living in southern ,south florida , layering of clothing and such are nearly never a condirtion i might have to face. i guess the bonded ranger (non sxt ) hp's are sufficient under these conditions and i will carry them. the ranger sxt super expander hp's will probablly be kept in the safe until the zombies arrive someday. no sense putting my guns under that much pressure(990 muzzle punds psi) as opposed to the ranger bonded 930 lbs.psi says winchester customer service. as far as testing the ammo i will test ity sparingly due to price. two 50 round boxes of each the most. just to check feeding . i think ranger ammo is the best stuff out there at this time and i will be on the lookout for the new stuff they have coming out in the near future. new sxt rangers...wow ! sorry for the long post.

[NG VI]

www.georgia-arms.com
www.tds-us.com

and double tap are good places to find ammo.

Remington Golden Saber seems to have a nice rounded bullet profile, never got hung up in my CZ, which was made for ball, and expands well. Whatever works for the P345, Ruger centerfire autos tend to be pretty reliable, so buy a few different things and try them out, see which one your gun likes, then buy a bunch of it.

And welcome to THR!

[Regen]

For my self defense ammo, I want to make sure that it is 100% reliable in my gun, so I followed this procedure.


Over the course of several range trips
Start with a clean gun.
1) Shoot 200 rounds of SD ammo without failure.
2) Shoot 500 of very dirty ammo. (UMC FMJ, but Wolf would also work well) Don't clean the gun.
3) Shoot 50 rounds of SD ammo without failure.
4) Clean gun.
5) Shoot 15 rounds of SD ammo every range trip.

The above procedure will test the function of the gun/ammo combo under conditions that are stressful for the gun. If you are going to have a failure to feed, Failure to fire, or Failure to Extract it is likely to occur under the above test at some point. The number of rounds fired it large enough to be statistically significant, so you can be confident of functioning of your gun and ammo.