[gunsmith]

All of you guys who only post links, this is how you do it!

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/16546900.htm

Mountain lion attacks man in Humboldt state park
LISA LEFF
Associated Press

SAN FRANCISCO - State wildlife officials on Thursday credited a 65-year-old Fortuna woman with saving her 70-year-old husband's life by clubbing a mountain lion that had his head gripped in its jaws until the animal let go.

Jim and Nell Hamm, who will celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary on Feb. 9, were hiking in Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park on the far North Coast when he was attacked by a single lion, Supervising Ranger Maury Morningstar said.

"He didn't scream. It was a different, horrible plea for help, and I turned around and by then the cat had wrestled Jim to the ground," Nell Hamm said in an interview from the hospital where her husband was recovering from a torn scalp, puncture wounds and other injuries.

Game wardens, who closed the park and released hounds to track the mountain lion, shot and killed a pair found near the trail where the attack happened.

One lion, a female, was shot with a rifle Wednesday night. The other, a male, was killed Thursday morning, said Fish and Game Warden Rick Banko. Their carcasses were flown to a state forensics lab in Rancho Cordova to determine if either animal mauled the man, he said.

Although she and her husband are avid hikers and experienced in the outdoors, neither of them had seen a mountain lion before Jim Hamm found himself on the ground trying to fight one off, his wife said. Nell Hamm said she grabbed a four-inch wide log and beat the animal with it, but it wouldn't relinquish its hold on her husband's head.

"Jim was talking to me all through this, and he said, 'I've got a pen in my pocket and get the pen and jab him in the eye,'" she said. "So I got the pen and tried to put it in his eye, but it didn't want to go in as easy as I thought it would."

When the pen bent and became useless, Nell Hamm went back to using the log. The lion eventually let go and with blood on its snout stood staring at the woman, who screamed and waved her wooden weapon until the animal slowly walked away.

"She saved his life, there is no doubt about it," said Steve Martarano, a spokesman for the Department of Fish and Game.

Hamm said she was scared to leave her dazed, bleeding husband alone, so the couple walked a quarter-mile to a trail head, where she gathered branches to protect them if more lions came around. They waited there - Hamm does not know for how long - until a ranger came by and summoned help.

"My concern was to get Jim out of there," she said. "I told him, 'Get up, get up, walk,' and he did."

Jim Hamm, whose lips had to be stitched back together, underwent surgery for lacerations on his head and body at Mad River Community Hospital in Arcata. He was in fair condition on Thursday, and told his wife he plans to make the trip to New Zealand they planned for their Golden anniversary, she said.

Hamm said she and her husband want to use their experience to warn people never to hike in the backcountry alone. Park rangers told them that if they had not been together, Jim Hamm probably would not have survived the attacked.

"I feel that Jim and I fought for his life," she said. "We fought harder than we ever have to save his life, and we fought together."

Based on their weight of between 70 and 100 pounds, officials think the lions were relatively young.

The incident about 320 miles north of San Francisco was the 16th mountain lion attack reported to the state since 1890. It was the first attack since three people were injured, one of them fatally, in separate incidents in Orange and Tulare counties in 2004, Martarano said.

Since 1990, the 4,000 to 6,000 mountain lions estimated to be in California have been protected from hunting, although residents can get special permits to shoot a lion if it is perceived as a danger to people, pets or livestock.

Sightings of the animals have increased in the past decade as housing has spread into their habitat, but attacks are relatively rare since mountain lions tend to be wary of people, said Karen Kovacs, a senior wildlife biologist with the Department of Fish and Game.

"For the most part, their natural inclination is to go the other way when humans are around," Kovacs said. "This was atypical because this person was with somebody. Usually they attack someone who is alone."

The park was reopened to the public Thursday after the second lion was killed, Banko said.

[gunsmith]

What animals are found in the park?

A partial list includes mountain lion, bobcat, black bear, gray fox, coyote, porcupine, otter, opossum, mink, striped skunk, spotted skunk, weasel, various bats, various owl species, Steller's jay, scrub jay, raven, chipmunk, gray squirrel, Douglas squirrel, ground squirrel, black-tailed deer, wild pig (non-native), wild turkey (non-native), salmon, steelhead, pikeminnow, various newts and salamanders, banana slugs, and many more. For more about the park's wildlife, visit the flora and fauna page.
Is hunting allowed in the park?

No, hunting is not allowed anywhere in the state park. Firearms of any kind are also not allowed, even if they are unloaded.

They should also make a dang law saying "no mountain lion or bear shall have teeth and claws"

[gunsmith]

ject: Suggestion for park rules RE: Mountain Lion and Bears.
To: shorvitz@parks.ca.gov
I never go hunting but I do carry a gun for self defense, I notice that
it is against Park rules to carry a gun, so of course I will
not visit. Perhaps you can create a safe environment by making a rule
that no mountain lion shall possess teeth or claws.
Thank You!

[Zoogster]

It is statewide, no firearms in state parks in CA. The ranger is not going to be able to change anything, or even likely to pass it on to anyone if you complain to him.
The risk of you being killed or injured by a natural predator is more acceptable than the risk many people being allowed to have firearms and potentialy illegaly poach on the only wildlife preservations. The fact that poachers ignore the laws along with other criminals is considered an illogical argument in this state.
I understand both points of view. Many people even non-poachers would fire before it was necessary just because they were scared. However other people will be victimize by predators both animal and human because only the predators have weapons. However in CA where for the most part people are expected to be disarmed in general, that is not a big difference so does not seem illogical to continue the same general policy, and strengthen it a bit for wildlife protection.

Welcome to CA, oh and make sure you buy an adventures' pass if you want to pull over and park in any national forest too as it is over a $100 fine otherwise. Now state parks on the other hand have camping, but price is over $30 a night to sleep in the forest in many places. No, the wilderness is no longer free. Pulling over on the side of the road and enjoying the wilderness is illegal without a pass, and having a firearm located even in your vehicle while you do so is against the law if you are in a state or national park in CA.
An individual or family in a state park if they are following the law is the most unnarmed defenseless type of people in the state. Not enough LEOs (which of course is considered the problem in CA if crime still exists, the state needs more resources from your wallet, and you need less rights) nor enough tax $ to patrol and even respond to crime in them, but being capable of defending themselves is illegal. Be sure to bring the young ones you care about most and visit our beautiful remote victim disarmament zones, and bring a wad of cash to pay the fees. :neener:

[gunsmith]

:neener: :evil:

Yeah, I knew the letter wouldn't make a difference, I like to poke bureaucrats anyway.
I also call Mayor Bloomburg's office and tell them I have unregistered guns.

I didn't know about that adventurer pass, where does one get that?

I'll camp in NV's State parks , a mile from CA and bring my .357:D

When I camped in CA State parks, I carried anyway.

I never saw any mountain lions & the only ranger I saw was the one I paid my fee to.

[Zoogster]

While quickly looking up the adventure pass for you I ran across a website made just for fighting it. Only southern California's national forests require them. If it is not a state park, not a national park, but is wilderness then it is likely a national forest, which are the only out of the 3 that even allow firearms. Thier use of course is still restricted.
http://www.freeourforests.org/adpass.htm
The pass is available via mail or at many outdoor shops and some stores near forests. It is $5 a day, and $30 or so a year to legaly park anywhere in one. Not much, but an awful lot when you consider your not buying anything, just the right to stop your vehicle in the forest your taxes already pay for. I guess washington has a similar pass from the website. The money is just profit to use as the state wishes. So your in essence billed twice, once in taxes to pay for all the costs of the forest, and then again to use it.

[gunsmith]

I never heard of them doing that up here, I called Mendicino Nat Forest Headquarters a few years ago and they said guns are ok at campsites and to use common sense when shooting.
They were real nice about it.

Thanks for finding out that website so quickly!

[cloudcroft]

We have two choices:

1. Be a dead but "law-abiding" citizen.

2. Be a live but "outlaw" citizen.

Our choice.

-- John D.

[1911Tuner]

The press release:

>SAN FRANCISCO - State wildlife officials on Thursday credited a 65-year-old Fortuna woman with saving her 70-year-old husband's life by clubbing a mountain lion that had his head gripped in its jaws until the animal let go.<
************

Well...Wait for it. Pretty soon the lady will have suit filed against her by some animal rights group for harassing and injuring the cat. This is, after all, Shangri-La by the Bay... :rolleyes:

Truth is...that if a big cat is stalking you with a plan of attack, you'll be lucky to be able to get to your pistol in time to stop it. They're ambush predators, and you can have one trailing you for a long time without even knowing that it's there until it attacks....usually from behind and almost always from above.

In a few villages in India, where tiger attacks are fairly commonplace from time to time...the villagers have taken to wearing face masks on the backs of their heads...and the attacks decrease. Seems that cats rarely attack anything that's looking at them, preferring to go for the surprise. When they see eyes upon'em, they stand down, unless they're at the point of starvation.

[Travis McGee]

Because they are crafty ambush predators, you are unlikely to see the one that attacks you before you're on the ground. In that case, a very sharp hunting knife in a sheath on your hip would be the way to go, with some advantages even over a pistol. People have even killed large bears mano a mano (mano a claw?) with knives.

In extreme cases, if you knew you were being stalked by a predator (bear or lion) a hunting knife can also be attached to a pole to make a spear.

[hagar]

When it comes to kakafornia, I only have contempt for their laws. The few times I visited (against my will) when I lived in AZ, I just tucked my Glock in my camera bag and pretended to be a dumb tourist. Back then it wasn't a felony to carry concealed, so I guess they don't think much of their own laws either.

[romma]

That poor poor Mountain Lion should have been petted and hugged and offered a nice warm bath along with an animal massage and friendly kisses... Then if the Lion ate the guy,, his wife could boast about how morally superior she and her dead husband were...

[History Prof]

And my CA born and raised wife used to wonder why I refused to move to her home state. After living in a free state long enough, though, now even she refuses to go back to CA for anything longer than a few days' visit.

That poor poor Mountain Lion should have been petted and hugged and offered a nice warm bath along with an animal massage and friendly kisses... Then if the Lion ate the guy,, his wife could boast about how morally superior she and her dead husband were... Yep, the poor thing just wanted to play with these nice people. Why'd she have to go and beat it over the head?:rolleyes:

I can just see this poor woman working up the spine to stare that thing down. If she hadn't, it wouldn't have walked away. They'd both be dead. Good for her.

[RobG5538]

I would like to know how they voted the last time controlled cat hunting was on the ballot...:evil:

[doubleg]

no one but the military and goverment need guns:rolleyes:

[stevelyn]

It's too bad the cats can't target the fools that voted for the hunting ban.

[Furncliff]

The Montana cats probably get biger than the cats in Ca., but it still a surprise to me how big they are:http://www.whitemountainoutfitters.com/images/6.jpg

[phoglund]

The History Prof. said the first thought that came to my mind...Full Points to the woman that fought one on one with a big cat to save her man. Close enough to try to stab it in the eye with a pen! :what: I can see why he's stayed married to her for nearly 50 years! I know all we macho men around here would like to say we'd have done the same thing but a person just wouldn't know until the time came. For those who say you wouldn't have been able to use a handgun if you had one and were attacked...I'd say Nell Hamm sure could have found use for one! Even Jim might have been able to reach a sidearm if he'd had one.

All hail Nell Hamm! Next beer I drink will be in her honor. :)

[MarkDido]

Florida recently removed the "No Guns" restrictions from all State Parks.

[Pilgrim]

As I recall, Humboldt State Park has also been the scene of some trailside murders.

Pilgrim

[50 Shooter]

All hail the THR Antburners, I see your state isn't much better.:rolleyes:

http://leg.state.nv.us/NAC/NAC-407.html#NAC407Sec105

[gunsmith]

NAC 407.105 Possession or use of weapons. (NRS 407.0475, 407.065)

1. In any park, a person shall not:

(a) Use a bow and arrow, slingshot or paint ball launcher;

(b) Possess a firearm, unless:

(1) The firearm is unloaded and inside a vehicle; or

(2) The person in possession of the firearm has a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, and is carrying the firearm in conformity with the terms of the permit;

(c) Discharge a weapon, including, without limitation, an air rifle, spring gun or air pistol; or

(d) Throw a knife, hatchet, spear, stone or projectile,

Ê except as authorized by the Administrator.

2. The Administrator may designate zones in which a person may, for the purposes of hunting a species that is designated by the Board of Wildlife Commissioners as a game mammal or game bird pursuant to chapter 503 of NAC, carry and discharge a firearm or bow in accordance with the regulations of the Department of Wildlife. At each park in which a zone is designated pursuant to this subsection, the ranger in charge of the region or the supervisor of the park shall post at the headquarters of the park, and at each area within the park which is designated as a zone in which a person may carry and discharge a firearm or bow for the purposes of hunting, maps of the designated zones within that park.

3. Target shooting is prohibited in all areas of a park, except in an area designated as a firing range.

4. Use of a bow to kill, capture or injure a fish is prohibited within 100 feet of a swimmer.

(Added to NAC by Div. of St. Parks, 12-31-85, eff. 1-1-86; A 3-9-88; 7-25-90; 11-12-93; 3-20-96, eff. 4-1-96; R164-97, 3-1-98; R145-99, 1-18-2000; R118-01, 12-17-2001; R149-05, 5-4-2006)

[gunsmith]

I talked to an author who researched lions/tigers he said that
the Tigers in India wised up and learned that it was a mask
and resumed attacking.

[imprezagm4]

I'd get a kick outta seeing a mountain lion in the wild... If I was armed that is.

[CNYCacher]

Even NYS lets you carry it state parks.

Which is a good thing because a good portion of the state is one big park. . . Adirondack State Park, which is about the size of Vermont.

[MD_Willington]

They are lions, a lot of ignorant people think they are wild kitties...

This is courtesy: North Island Guide Outfitters, Campbell River, BC
Canada.

http://www.huntingvancouverisland.com/pop-ups/cougar11.html


We have a lot of Mt Lions back home, check the gallery out:

http://www.huntingvancouverisland.com/photo_gallery/cougar_hunting.html

[gunsmith]

On my way back from Virginia City, NV it was crossing the road as the sun went down.
I pulled the truck over and rolled the window and called out "here kitty kitty"
I guess big cats don't like pick up trucks.

[pax]

How sad.

Only one post lauded this 65-year-old woman for her fighting spirit, her lawfully-unarmed bravery and her cool thinking under stress.

To my way of thinking, this is just an amazing story that exemplifies the defensive mindset perfectly: she made do with what she had and she didn't quit or run away or go looking for someone else to do the dirty work that needed doing. She didn't whine about the perfect tools she didn't have, she simply did the job with what she did have.

Kudos to her!

pax

[Mr White]

No carry allowed in PA state parks, and the Game Commission adamantly denies that there are any mountain lions in teh state, yet there are sightings all over the state. There have been several sighting within 10 miles of where I live. If I ever see one when I'm in the woods, its getting shot. I'll take it to the local paper and call the Game Commission office once I get there.

I'm not saying that I break any laws or advocate breaking any laws, but my attitude toward restrictions to carrying in certain areas is that alive and in a world of s**t still beats the hell out of dead.

[The Viking]

FurnCliff: Thats a cute kitty you've got there :evil:. Jokes aside, I love animals, but I ain't a treehugger. Still think its a pretty cat :).

[Sir Aardvark]

Unfortunately, Mountain Lion attacks are becoming sort of common in California.

A few years ago a lady was jogging on a trail near Irvine Company land in Orange County and was attacked, killed, and partially eaten by a mountain lion.

Last year, a mountain biker was killed in Orange County. Apparentely, he stopped on the trail to fix his tire and was jumped from behind by the Mountain Lion. Authorities found his body tucked under a bush nearby.
This same Mountain Lion, a couple hours later, attacked another lady who was out hiking with her friend, and started dragging her down a hill into the shrubbery; her friend refused to let go of her and kicked the Cat and beat on it with rocks until it finally gave up. Authorities tracked down the Cat and killed it.

Also last year, in Carona, right next to Orange County, an off-duty Sheriff's Deputy (or maybe he was retired, can't remember) saw a Mountain Lion in his backyard and pulled out his pistol and shot the thing dead.
Boy... did the environmentalists get pissed over that... "he was just minding his own business and wasn't threatening anyone, why'd you have to shoot him?".

They need to start handing out permits to thin out these big Cats before they get too impacted by population numbers to safely roam their own range without being pressed into the fringes of the cities.

Oh yeah... I also agree with everybody that California is run by a bunch of Whackos who are disassociated with reality.

As for the "Adventure Pass" - I'm pretty sure that this is a federal thing, not a state thing. Pretty much, what it is, is a fee of $30.00 a year to use our National Forests, and the money is supposedly to go to upkeep of said forests.
I mean, I already pay taxes to keep up the Forests - it's not my fault the Gov't can't stop spending my money on other stupid stuff - so this is a way for the Gov't to fleece even more $$ out of us citizens in the guise of "user's fees" instead of taxes.

[gunsmith]

Many people would just scream, run and dial 911.
Many Kudo's to the lady who stood by her man and got close enough to poke it in the eye!

[Keith Wheeler]

"My concern was to get Jim out of there," she said. "I told him, 'Get up, get up, walk,' and he did."

Chazak V'ematz.

[Sharps-shooter]

See, this just proves that nobody really needs guns for self-defense against animals. Even a frail old lady who is unarmed can defeat a mountain lion.

Seriously, I think it's just awesome that this woman beat down a mountain cat with a stick. I hope that her descendants will tell this story for many generations. (back in aught-seven, great great grandma nell whupped a mountain lion when she was 65 years old...).

I hope that when I'm old, and get attacked by a mountain lion, that my wife will do the same for me.

[phoglund]

The "Adventure Pass" seems to be a Federal program but it must be a limited one because I've never heard of such a thing here in Montana and I spend lots of time in the National Forests. We have really fallen as a society when spending time in some of the millions of square miles of National Forest needs a license!

[MikePGS]

Since 1990, the 4,000 to 6,000 mountain lions estimated to be in California have been protected from hunting, although residents can get special permits to shoot a lion if it is perceived as a danger to people, pets or livestock.
Does that mean that she would've had to quickly get a permit while the thing was chomping hubbies head in order to shoot it legally? :neener:

In all seriousness Kudos to her. Though i'm sure her husband would've preferred to have the option of simply shooting the attacking animal, as opposed to having to rely on his 65 year old wife to help him out. I can only imagine how much trash talk the guys getting from his friends and family:)

[davhina]

Oh my! Not without my .45:neener:

[1911Tuner]

Sharps-Shooter wrote:

>I hope that when I'm old, and get attacked by a mountain lion, that my wife will do the same for me.<
****************

Yeah...for real. Instead of standin' back and hollerin': "Elmer! Did you remember to pay the life insurance premium this month???"

http://www.wtv-zone.com/jnib/gifs/smilies/laugh.gif

[davhina]

Many people would just scream, run and dial 911.
Many Kudo's to the lady who stood by her man and got close enough to poke it in the eye!

Agreed..That woman certainly has "big brass ones".
Hopefully the anti's won't say "see waht she did? we don't need guns":banghead:

[OLD DOMENION]

Mountain lion attack in gun free paradise

Bring back the natural preditors!
Then maybe, they will eat most of the ANTI-GUN people.

[Aguila Blanca]

I never heard of them doing that up here, I called Mendicino Nat Forest Headquarters a few years ago and they said guns are ok at campsites and to use common sense when shooting.
They were real nice about it.
I think you are confusing national parks with national forests. Carrying loaded firearms is illegal in ALL national parks, as well as national monuments (which are operated by the National Park Service.

National forests, on the other hand, for the most part defer to the laws of the state in which they are located.

[Deaf Smith]

Here in out Texas Parks we CHL holders are allowed to carry out guns. There as been ZERO incidence of CHL holders poaching. There have been ZERO incidence of CHL holders illegaly hunting or plinking in the parks. There as been ZERO incidence of CHL holders sticking up other park goers.

So what in the frigg'en heck is going on with those Californicators? People who go through the effort the get CCWs AIN'T GOING TO POACH AT NIGHT. They AIN'T GOING TO ILLEGALY HUNT. But they might just off some killer.

It's more than just mountian lions or bears or such critters. There are two legged critters in those parks that hurt other people. If you have the right to defend your self, then you have the right to the means of defense!

I guess in California they just do their 'numbers' and decide people must die to keep their ideal of utopia. Yea, rolling blackouts, riots, earthquakes and fires (but their parks are safe for the critters.)

[GaryL]

One lion, a female, was shot with a rifle Wednesday night. The other, a male, was killed Thursday morning, said Fish and Game Warden Rick Banko. Their carcasses were flown to a state forensics lab in Rancho Cordova to determine if either animal mauled the man, he said.

FWIW, I think it's sad that they killed 2 cats, hoping one of them was the guilty party. Now if they had proper laws, it's quite possible they'd have an easier time finding the right cat because it would have bullet holes in it's hide.

[Lupinus]

furn you two make a cute couple :neener:

[thexrayboy]

When hiking in big cat country common sense must be the order of the day.

First never hike alone. It is rare for cats to attack humans, it is more rare for them to attack when more than one human is present. Not unheard of but
quite unlikely.

Second be armed if at all possible. Even a big knife is better than nothing.
Do not however assume that your weapon is a magic talisman that will save your life. Big cats are stealth hunters. You will be attacked with virtually no warning. You may not be able to access your weapon. Help from another person would be needed.

Third have a dog with you. Not some yap yap lap dog but at least a mid size dog or larger. The chance of the cat being able to sneak up on you are good. The chances of it being able to sneak up on your dog are much smaller. Just don't let your dog wander a lot while you hike. Dogs can stir up trouble and bring it running straight back to you sometimes.

Fourth remember, you are far more likely to die in your car on the way to or from your hike than by an attack from a mountain lion.

[Art Eatman]

thexrayboy, there have been two lion attacks in Big Bend National Park where groups of people were involved. Parents and kids. The lions went after the children.

Dogs aren't allowed in BBNP; I assume that's probably the case in other national parks.

Art

[gunsmith]

gee whiz! why do they call them parks!

But if you're wondering around out in the woods with fido (I bring Sparky when I can)
be aware that some places have trapping, and they bait it with smelly stuff dogs love.
I spend time in mtn lion country but my friends huge Rotties keep me safe.
I think the cats are figuring out where it is safe to attack humans, Northern NV aint that place!
I'll still keep the rotties and the guns nearby

[Ryder]

http://www.whitemountainoutfitters.com/images/6.jpg

I did some high school time up in Placerville, Ca. We had a stuffed one in a display case that was twice as big as this.

[chris in va]

I remember when I was a teenager living in Colorado, lions would come down out of the foothills and eat various small game when the deer population would become scarce.

In Colorado Springs one lion ate a lady's small dog and the homeowner shot it with a 22. The cat wandered around town a while, leaving a blood trail the animal control people could track it down with. They trapped it, patched it up, tagged it's ear, then took it back up into the mountains...and a week later it promptly ate someone else's pet in town. Could've easily been a small child playing in a back yard.

I don't miss the 'greenies' or neo-hippies or whatever they call those idiots.

[1911Tuner]

All joking aside...The best thing for the cats and the people is to have controlled hunting seasons. Pushing the cats...or wolves,or coyotes...makes them afraid, and they tend to maintain a safe distance from us. When the Fuzzy Shangri-La crowd took over and forbade the hunting of large predators, they laid the groundwork for the attacks that are occurring. The problem is that, now...after several generations of being "protected"...it will take several more to reinstill the instinctive fear of human beings.

There was a time that seeing a Cougar or a Wolf or a Coyote or a Bobcat in the wild was so rare that it was a memorable event to be cherished....and it was a usually only a fleeting glimpse at their backsides as they fled in terror. Now, it seems that they're actually seeking us out. While the encroachment of civilization can account for some of this...it doesn't cover all of it.

I love the predators. They're my favorites among all wildlife...but there should be a wide No Man's/No Critter's land separating us...and that ain't gonna happen until we make'em understand that WE are the dangerous species, and that death follows the human scent.

[jerkface11]

Always go to the park in groups and take your smallest least well liked antigun coworker with you. Also make sure that said coworker walks in the BACK of the line. This will help to ensure your safety.:evil:

[BruceGibson]

Incredible. I suppose it's fortunate she had access to a stick.

[Lupinus]

bruce

I prefer metal sticks that go boom, preferably a very large big boom

[DRZinn]

People have even killed large bears mano a mano (mano a claw?) with knives. Mano a urso.

All I really have to say (although pax said it better, as usual) is, that's a helluva wife!

[BruceGibson]

Lupinus,

I agree completely. Boomsticks always get big cat's attention.

[thexrayboy]

Stories of humans being stalked and taken by big cats etc. should serve to remind us we are not always the animal at the top of the food chain. Humans get a little arrogant at times. These episodes are reminders of how life used to be millenia ago.

[gunsmith]

millenia ago.



there was no spear control.

my ex wrote a skit called rock control, the biggest cave man banned rocks for everyones safety...(his)

I wonder why he or she did not even have a knife?