steel ammo?


PDA






hcker2000
January 26, 2007, 04:55 AM
I am just curious but what is the deal with ranges not allowing steel cased ammo?

I can't wait tell the range that does not care opens up so I can get back to shooting my sks for a decent price.

Buckeye out doors charges way to much for all there ammo aside from there 9mm and 40s&w just a warning for all you central ohio people out there. They were asking $20 for a 20 round box of winchester 7.62x39 :what:

If you enjoyed reading about "steel ammo?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
BIGDADDYLONGSTROKE
January 26, 2007, 05:00 AM
The resaon why ranges dont accept steel ammo is because it does not recycle or reload, so basicaly the range has to pay to get rid of the steel casings.
If it is a popular range that can be alot of casings.

The range I worked at was a 30% mark up on all there ammo.

hcker2000
January 26, 2007, 05:16 AM
You would think if they saved it they would get enough to sell the scrap steel back for some kind of profit but probably not near as much as they make with the brass.

It is just very annoying as it is almost impossible to find brass 7.62x39. I ended up paying $8 some thing for 20 rounds and that was from the gun range.

I guess the best way to go is to buy my ammo online as no one even carys 9mm makarov ammo and if they do its $25 a box.

BIGDADDYLONGSTROKE
January 26, 2007, 05:22 AM
go to www.the-armory.com I believe is the website they got all you need at a pretty good discount. .45 acp brass ammo for $10 box of 50. I know what you mean and those sks's and Ak's will eat the Wolf no problem.

hcker2000
January 26, 2007, 05:35 AM
I was just checking them out. Looks like there out of most of there 7.62x39 besides the wolf.

Oh well when spring gets here I can go shoot at the range where they don't care about steel casings.

BIGDADDYLONGSTROKE
January 26, 2007, 05:38 AM
Here is a few more if you didnt already know about them.

www.georgia-arms.com

www.ammoman.com

www.cabelas.com

gezzer
January 26, 2007, 06:49 PM
Excuse me need more info steel cased or steel jacketed?

Steel jacket I can understand for indoor ranges. Steel Case no idea why unless they feel steel case is most likley steel jacket.

WeedWhacker
January 27, 2007, 12:28 AM
Steel jacket?

Oh, for those new titanium barrels, you mean. ;D

Avenger
January 27, 2007, 04:45 PM
hcker2000, Buckeye charges that much because they are about the only place near Columbus that actually carries AK ammo. Wal-mart doesn't carry it at all, and we all know about Gander Mountain and Dick's.....
Vance's has had non-steel 7.62x39 in stock on occasion, but not often, and only a few boxes at a time.

LeafsFan
January 27, 2007, 07:10 PM
If the range's only concern is that nobody will pick steel up due to unreloadablility, tell them to buy a few large magnets, duct tape them to sticks and have the steel-case shooters go over the range like mine-sweepers after they're done for the day.

That's the way I do it, then I take 'em to the scrapyard and sell them. I can pick up dozens of cases this way in no time flat without bending down to reach them, etc. (Plus a magnet will yank any steel cases out of your pile of brass too...)

You get to shoot cheap rounds, they get their clean range. Win-win solution, eh? :D

hagar
January 27, 2007, 08:26 PM
If you don't like the rules, tell them that, and walk out on them. I went down to Port Richey in FL a couple of years ago and went shooting at an indoor range with my brother in law. They spent 10 minutes going over the rules again, and then at the end, oh btw, you have to use our hearing protection, another $3. And our shooting glasses, another $3 each. And our targets, and our ammo, on top of the $15/person for 30 minutes. And no rapid firing. My brother in law was just nodding his head in agreement. I said to the guy, are you done? Because we are, and walked out of the place.

Went to another range that was actually a lot nicer, friendlier, they told us they charge a minimum 1/2 hour at $6 or $8 person(I don't remember), but take our time if nobody else came in, shoot our own ammo, their targets were cheap, and they did not care whose eye and ear protection we used, as long as we used it.

mp510
January 27, 2007, 11:38 PM
The steel and aluminum cases will mix in with the brass ones and damage the potential money that can be made by selling the brass as scrap.

Avenger
January 28, 2007, 01:14 PM
Just thought of something else: Steel core could damage their backstop. Copper/lead tends to splatter/shatter/deform when it hits something hard, steel just plows on through.

230RN
January 28, 2007, 09:13 PM
I gat a repackaged sample of some Wolf 7.62 X 39 Russian (123 gr boattails) and discovered that the bullet jackets themselves were steel with a gilding metal wash. I'm sure that's not good for the backstops of indoor ranges.

My local indoor range recently installed some new backstops which would allow shooting centerfire rifle (with some noise and power-related restrictions).

I noticed at one point that sparks were coming off the steel deflectors/backstops while some shooters were firing their black rifles. This could have been simply sparks due to steel jackets striking the steel backstops, but it kind of makes me wonder if some 7.62 X 39 Russian ammo might be loaded with depleted uranium bullets, which is pyrophoric* (throws beaucoup sparks and burns) and is toxic as h3ll besides.

If that's the case, I can't blame the ranges for generically banning a lot of ammunition, but I wondered about the possibility of there being some U238 7.62 X 39 Russian ammo floating around.

Anyone know offhand?

--------------

* Incidentally but interestingly, I discovered that the pyrophoric qualities of uranium were utilized in making frizzens for black powder flintlock rifles:

http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/consumer%20products/dufrizzen.htm

Avenger
January 28, 2007, 11:12 PM
I extremely doubt it. I don't think anyone would bother with a small caliber (As compared to IFV and tank rounds) DP round. There's just not enough room in the bullet for enough material to make any marked difference over steel or tungsten rounds.
I've seen the sparks from plain lead bullets and jacketed rounds. I'm pretty sure they aren't anything more than tiny fragments of lead being spalled from the main mass of the bullet, and glowing from the heat caused by the round crushing.
Steel cores wil penetrate or gouge steel plate, even if the plate is actually harder than the bullet, MUCH more easily than a jacketed round will.

mp510
January 28, 2007, 11:20 PM
I gat a repackaged sample of some Wolf 7.62 X 39 Russian (123 gr boattails) and discovered that the bullet jackets themselves were steel with a gilding metal wash. I'm sure that's not good for the backstops of indoor ranges.


The Russians notoriously use a bimetal jacket. In the past, they used it as a advertising point.

230RN
January 29, 2007, 01:23 AM
Thanks both of you. I wondered about that

hcker2000
January 29, 2007, 03:35 AM
Well I guess maybe wolf does use only bimetal jackets on there bullets. If that is the case then I can see a range not wanting you to shoot it at there back stops. This range is fine with every thing up to .50 bmg's so they by no means limit riffle calibers.

I would just walk out and say the heck with it but the only other range around here is an outdoor range and they are closed for the winter but you can bet your butt I will be going there as soon as they are open.

Any one know what gander mountain charges? Its not real far from me and I hope they don't charge so much.

Oh and well we are on the subject is steel core ammo even legal?

Neo-Luddite
January 29, 2007, 10:59 PM
Steel core is OK most places. It isn't coming in anymore in 7.62 x 39 Soviet but it's OK to shoot/use. .30/06 is mostly mild steel core from WWII-early 60's loadings. And .06 m2 and ss109 5.56 is exempted by ATF rules as being certified as non-AP kosher.

Center fire rifle at most indoor ranges is not cool. They usually fuss about EVERYTHING and charge too much.

hotpig
January 30, 2007, 12:47 AM
There has been a little uncomfirmed talk of american ammo like WWB,UMC, AE changing from brass to steel. If they do change maybe it will stabilize the maket.

carlrodd
January 30, 2007, 12:56 AM
i'll have to agree with those that suggested the reason ranges don't allow it is because the backstops could be damaged by steel or bi-metal bullets. i don't think policing up steel casings that they can't reload is an issue. you really have to assert yourself though. some of these range jockeys are clueless. at the range i most often go to they have a magnet to test your ammo. i always make sure they check the bullet and not the casing. the wolf i use is only steel jacketed, but a number of times these guys have set the whole round against it, and assumed there was steel in the bullet.

hcker2000
January 30, 2007, 05:19 AM
Interesting. I might have to see if I can track down some steel core 7.62x39 to shoot stuff with.

Can't wait tell spring gets here :)

ScottsGT
January 30, 2007, 09:36 AM
Another reason is that the steel core ammo can cause sparks and start fires at outdoor ranges. A lot of ranges in Cal. don't allow steel core ammo.
My local indoor range won't allow AR's or AK's due to all the cheap steel core ammo destroying their back stops.

Cheeseybacon
January 30, 2007, 09:55 AM
Wow, you guys have some really fussy ranges to deal with. Hearing all of this makes me really thankful that I belong to a wonderful range where no one gives a nit on the nut of a gnat about when kind of ammo you're shooting.

ScottsGT
January 30, 2007, 10:27 AM
Wow, you guys have some really fussy ranges to deal with. Hearing all of this makes me really thankful that I belong to a wonderful range where no one gives a nit on the nut of a gnat about when kind of ammo you're shooting.

Hey, I'm with you on that one. I take my evil rifles out to a friends farm and blast away. Ocassionally his Dad gets contankerous about shooting, but he's a retired Sargent Major that taught shooting in basic and I think he gets tired of seeing his son not being able to control his shots :neener: I get to show "his boy" how it is done!

If you enjoyed reading about "steel ammo?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!