A dumb concealed carry question?

[ezypikns]

If you have a license to carry a concealed handgun, you know that there are some places legally off limits to concealed carry. I realize some folks have chosen not to be restricted by such regulations.
But those regulations apply to weapons only. Have you ever removed your handgun from a holster, and then gone into a place where carry was illegal, and removed a cover garment, say a sport coat or long jacket, thereby exposing your holster, either OWB or IWB? I know that's NOT illegal. Does anyone pay attention? Or care? I avoid this by mostly pocket carrying.

Told you it was dumb.

[Sniper X]

That isn't dumb. In most places open carry is not legal anywhere conceiled carry is illegal or posted. So it may be a moot point. I sometimes carry in some stores posted, like Walmart because it is a real weird deal there because it is posted in an "un conspicous area" so not an enforceable law per se'. However. We need to look at logic here and in logic, most LEOs are going to arrest first then ask questions later so be careful and get a car handgun safe and lock it up when you need to go somewhere unlawfull to carry.

[Sniper X]

Something I just thought of, when I use to open carry all the time I had been asked twice by 2 different LEO's to "cover it up" even though I had yet to receive my CCW. I guess it was for two reasons, I don;t look like a criminal, because I'm not, and two because in this liberal society even the cops know that libs freak out when they see someone without a badge carrying a gun even in a exposed holster!

[ZeSpectre]

Virginia,
CCW in a place that serves alcohol....ILLEGAL.
Flip your CCW out so it is now carried openly... Completely legal.

Someone wasn't paying attention when they wrote the laws. VCDL is trying to get this altered so responsible people can stick to discreet carry and not go through this hoopla.

[tank mechanic]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but does walmart have signs saying no weapons? Is it nationwide or just your store? Just curious, I always look and I never see them in any that I go to.

[Car Knocker]

I've never noticed a sign at W-M here in Utah but then it would be meaningless anyway.

[Avenger]

With Ohio's new laws, I've been watching for signs myself. I have yet to see one at most large chain stores, gas stations, or Quik-E-Mart type places. Now, some stores that are located in "limited access" parking lots (i.e. only one or two entrances from the street) have taken to posting a sign at the street entrance to the parking lot, usually beside the "no loitering" or "no skateboarding" or "no semi parking" signs.
I don't exactly understand how this works, because (and please correct me if I'm wrong!) the sign must be posted at the door of the store or business. That said, only Meijer and Target seem to be doing this.
My Wal-mart does not have ANY signage, and I have CC'd at mine.

[Sniper X]

AT Wal MArt therein lies the problem. By law any posting of a no carry sign is supposed to be "In plain sight" at the entrance. Now supposedly at Wallyworlds nationwide, they are all posted, but up at customer service where it is out of sight and behind a counter. So, it really can't be enforced and I don;t think any LEO would either know, or care if they saw you in WM with "the bulge" or saw a barrel poking out form under your clothing. Now, some WM carry booze, and by some laws even for private consumption is the same as a bar....no carry allowed by CCW laws. In fact, here in NM when you take CCW they TELL you about wal moart in particular but it is discussed off the record in class as a grey area. Actually, so is the package liquors deal, as in nobody cares that you are packing in a liq store as long as you haven't been drinking because that here in NM is a felony supposedly.

Now back to WM. Ours HAD a sign, but I looked recently and it was not there anymore. I don;t know if it fell down behind the cabinet, or if they took it down.

[Whirlwind06]

Now, some stores that are located in "limited access" parking lots (i.e. only one or two entrances from the street) have taken to posting a sign at the street entrance to the parking lot, usually beside the "no loitering" or "no skateboarding" or "no semi parking" signs.
I don't exactly understand how this works, because (and please correct me if I'm wrong!) the sign must be posted at the door of the store or business.

When it is posted in the parking lot entrance. It is basically saying CCW is not permitted anywhere on the property. Legally you can't even drive onto one of those lot while carrying. I guess you would need to stop before entering the lot and and unload your pistol and lock it in the trunk with the ammo separate to comply with the firearm transport laws. At least that is my interpretation of Ohio's CHL law.

[Zundfolge]

Back to the original question.

I remove the holster with my gun, but thats because if I'm going to toss it in the glove box I want to protect the finish and keep things away from the trigger.

[Plastic Cowboy]

Since Walmart sells firearms and ammo it would be pretty stupid to post it as "no guns"

[Sniper X]

Since when does logic and common sence come into play when it comes to Walmart? I'm surprised they don't also have a sign posted saying it is unlawful to carry a knife when they sell kitchen and utility knives as well!

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

In WA. Courthouse/Courtroom, Bar, Liquer store, Schools, Post office. I pull the holster too. Stow all where it's safe.

Anywhere else, if it's just a land/business owner sign saying no firearms. I might only pull and stow the pistola. No laws broken then. If somebody asked if they saw the holster, I'd tell'em/show'em it's empty. Those businesses don't get much of my business anyway.


I was in a mall once.. JC Penney I think, with the wife. She was trying on some cloths. A patron asked me if I had a gun. (She must have seen it when I sat down).. I said yes. She asked if I had a permit. I said yes, Would you like to see it? "No, but thank you for answering honestly that you had a gun". She shopped along her way.

I got pulled over by a State trouper several years ago... I was in the wrong. Speeding.

He asked me for the DL, Insurance and Registration... I handed him the DL, Insurance and CWP. And informed him that the registration was in the glove box with a loaded 1911 and asked if it would be best if he recovered the registration while I stood at the front of the car. He agree'd. We talked guns for 40 minutes. He still wrote me a ticket for speeding. I mailed in a check.

-Steve

[hceptj]

I generally remove both holster and weapon and leave them both in the vehicle. Sometimes though, depending on the holster, I just leave the gun.

[Coyote3855]

I carry a Kahr P9 in a Maverick IWB holster. Easy on, easy off, but very secure in place. Just got back from a Dr. appointment. Left gun and holster in the truck. I do not want to advertise to anyone that I carry. The issue isn't one of legality. An empty holster assumes a gun somewhere, but not on me at the moment. Not a message I want to send.

Coyote3855

[Sniper X]

I don;t know what I'd do if some non-leo asked if I had a gun. Depends if I was in a place where I should have removed it and forgot as opposed to if it was well within my right. I think I'd say no comment or ask why they asked. Here in NM we live in a state of non disclosure. So we don't even have to tell LEO unless they ask in an interview.

[ezypikns]

An empty holster assumes a gun somewhere, but not on me at the moment. Not a message I want to send.

[Michigunner]

I don't know how common this is, but here is the way Wal-Mart works at my town in Michigan.

I have purchased a firearm twice at Wal-Mart, and both times they escorted me all the way across the store to the entrance door.

The gun could not be touched by me until we reached the parking lot.

Bill

[SHOOT1SAM]

Michigunner,

My oldest friend is a Walmart manager; that is corporate policy to carry the firearm out of the store for the customer. I'll have to ask him why, again; the reasoning slips my mind at the moment.

However, the last time we spoke of CCW in Walmart, their corporate policy was: No carrying by associates. Carrying by customers w/CCW was perfectly fine. If there is a store with a sign, it is an individual manager's decision. If this has changed, I'm sure he would have mentioned it, but I'll ask him & update this post.

As to the original post, it depends on the holster and how much trouble I'd have getting it on & off. Once when getting my haircut, I left the primary pistol in the vehicle, but left the holster on. One of the other stylists asked me if I was a cop and pointed to the holster. I just said "Oh, that's for my cell phone, which I had in my hand. I slipped the phone in as I was walking out and I don't think anyone thought anymore about it.

Sam

[chris in va]

Can't say as I've done that, usually the gun stays in the holster. I might have to try it though and see what reactions I get. We can open carry here in VA anyway, so it's a moot point legally speaking.

I will say however that the one time I OC'ed in WalMart, a shopper behind me made some "holy cow" comments about my Sig.:rolleyes:

[Kalatai]

I'm presently a Wal-Mart associate while going through college. I hold an Ohio CCL.

At least in Ohio, Wal-Mart has an, "out of sight, out of mind" mentality when it comes to customers carrying. If it's in the open, and you're not a LEO, then they can ask you to cover it up or leave the store. It's at the discretion of whichever manager you happen to deal with.

As for associates, I heard of at least one that was approved to carry, but it was about 2 years before i started working there, and they are an ex-cop and it's heresay. Other than that, I'm fairly certain Wal-Mart has a no carry for associates, which is pretty depressing. I understand that they want the associates to cooperate with the criminals when it comes to robberies and possible hostage situations, but if someone has snapped and is shooting people, I would want the ability to handle it swiftly. Especially with the amount of time I'm there working.

If you see a no carry sign at any Wal-Mart in which the state has Carry laws granting the right to carry either with or without a liscense, you call call corporate on them and they'll take it down. 1-800-wal-mart. The store manager either put it up out of ignorance or because they don't like guns.

There was a recent event at my store where someone came in and was OC. They were asked to leave, then I was in the managers office talking with my manager, (who is an ex-cop), and overheard two other managers talking about the incident and how the store should put up a no carry sign about it. I told them good luck and explained to them the company policy on it.

So as long as you aren't on the clock, carry conceal all the way under state laws.

It is company policy that if the Wal-Mart store sells shotguns or rifles, they MUST walk the gun out of the store to ensure that it remains unloaded. Muzzleloaders are exempt from this, but most stores do it anyway to avoid paranoid customers complaining.

Hope that sheds at least some light with Wal-Mart crap.

If someone has a link citing wal-mart's associate carry policy...that'd be great, I just got my CCL recently, but have avoided carrying while on the clock, but kept my holster on, (shoulder or ankle holsters).

[silverking]

Being retired, one of my daily routines is to go out to breakfast every morning. I found a restaurant, really just a small diner, that I really like. I carried every day I went there. One day as I was pulling into the parking lot, I noticed the "CLOSED" sign was in the window. Turns out the place closed down suddenly for reasons I've never learned. A couple weeks later, the bar/restaurant down the street hired all the girls from the closed diner to start serving breakfast at his place. Now I go there every day but am forced by law to leave the sidearm locked in the truck with my dog. I have been seen, I'm sure, with an empty holster but nobody has raised any concern about it. I don't worry about it being in the truck----my dog thinks that it's his truck and there isn't anyone gonna put a hand on it while he's there!

[PennsyPlinker]

Here in PA, there aren't too many places I can't go with my gun, but one of them, and one I am in frequently, is the post office. Depending on what I am carrying that day, I either leave the entire rig in the truck, or just the gun and leave the holster on my belt.

A holster is just a piece of leather or fabric of some sort. No one with the exception of the fashion police can come down on a person for wearing a holster. I know, I know, there is the implication that if there is a holster present, there must be a gun that goes with it somewhere, but that is not a given, and I think it would be kind of dumb to walk about with an empty holster for no reason at all.

I figure the odds of someone seeing me with a gun in the post office are much higher than me actually being shot in the post office (even though it is stuffed with postal employees! :neener: ), so I leave it in the truck. I do not need a furnished room for the next couple of years along with losing my license just because some citizen got scared.

I am waiting for the day when I am standing in line at the PO and someone screeches,

"He's got a gun!" :what:

"No Ma'am, I've got a holster. The gun is outside where it belongs." :D I'd like to see a cop try to arrest me for carrying a holster in public. Truth be told, there are so many things people clip onto their belts anymore, I don't think anyone who saw an empty holster would even give it a second thought, since most people seem to be in some sort of a distracted fog as they blunder through their day.

[ED-Lo]

I am not for sure and stand to be corrected,but me thinks having a fireaim
in the truck on postal property is the same as carring it into the building---
hope i am not correct in this

[PennsyPlinker]

I couldn't say one way or another, but I frequent several post offices, none of which own the area where I park.

[Mainsail]

If I were to do such a thing, I would keep the gun in the holster because a gun in a holster cannot be ‘accidentally’ discharged. That said, I do not believe in leaving my gun in the car; there’s no point in arming a car thief.

As for Wal-Mart, I open carry in there usually without drama. I had to deal with one low level manager who thought it was illegal or against store policy but he was corrected.

[Kalatai]

Wal-Marts go by the gun laws in the state they are located. So if open carry is legal in the state and/or city, it's legal in the wal-mart.

[FieroCDSP]

okay, so here's a question for those who have been through ohio CC course (I'm planning on attending this year), or maybe someone else who knows. If you're not licensed to conceal, your only option in public is to open carry. If a store manager asks you to either leave or cover up, Is it legal to conceal it while in the store without a permit. I would believe that could be covered under the same thing as being permitted by a property owner to carry concealed in their home, but with it being a public place, it could be dicey. Anyone know the ruling on that? Otherwise, if they tell you to cover up, it'd be illegal.

I wish our state would get on the wagon and start hashing out useful carry laws instead of vague areas of uncertainty.

[Kalatai]

Ohio Attorney General Concealed Carry Law Overview (http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention/pubs/cc_booklet20070314.pdf)

All I know is that it is illegal to carry conceal without a liscense. Before the law changed, you had to have your firearm in "plain sight" while in your car. So who knows what you need to have.

I don't know the present laws about open carry in Ohio, I'll check Ohio's laws and read through the codes. Unless someone finds out first.

Talk about a thread hijack...

[loop]

In Arizona we have open carry and I see people open carry in WalMart frequently. Do it myself from time to time. When I'm not working I carry one of my .45s in a belt slide holster.
A law passed last year requires places that don't allow firearms to provide secure lock boxes for firearms and to give the owner the key. Further, the lock boxes must be near the entrance.
If the store/office/whatever doesn't have secure storage available the gun owner may carry the gun on the premises. This also applies to government offices.
The reasoning is that a gun locked in a car is less secure than a gun on an individual.
The only exemptions are airports and schools.
And, a law in front of the legislature will permit licensed CCW holders to carry in schools if it passes. The thinking there is it is better to have a teacher on site with a gun if some whack job starts shooting.
There are some things I hate about AZ laws, but the gun laws aren't among them.

[Kalatai]

Ohio Revised Code 1547.69 Firearm prohibitions. (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1547.69)

The way that it's worded implies that you are not allowed to openly carry a firearm unless you're at the range, hunting or have a concealed carry permit. Unless someone knows something in addition, but this is all I could find concerning carrying of firearms in Ohio's Revised Code.

Also not sure if it just refers to "vessels"

(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a vessel in a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger.

(D) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a vessel unless it is unloaded and is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In plain sight with the action opened or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or that cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight.


(2) Divisions (C) and (D) of this section do not apply to a person who transports or possesses a handgun in a vessel and who, at the time of that transportation or possession, is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code, unless the person knowingly is in a place on the vessel described in division (B) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.

[gym]

They can put up all the signs they want, it's unenforcable. Winn Dixie had the same signs on the door, and someone took them to court, and the removed the signs. I had a partner in the gym business who didn't want guns in the club, the problem is that 30% of the members were cops, so I called the city up, and they said he could have the sign up, but it was't enforcable, so i'm basing my answer on my experiences with it. That's in FL

[kirkcdl]

I LOVE OREGON...

I guess you have to live here to understand...

[KowBoY_NE]

i am a little late here but i will throw my two cents in....... where i live in nebraska, i can ccw. but there is a city ordinance against it. you can carry open (have not tried walmart yet:evil:) but then all it takes is one phone call and you can get charged with "Disturbing the Peace"!! it is not a good situation to find yourself in, and if you get the wrong LEO then you WILL get charged with it:cuss:. so OC is not always a fail safe. just MY known .02:uhoh: