Is the Glock a DAO pistol? Cops who want their department to adopt it say yes. Those who don't like the gun aver that its trigger pull is too short and light to be called "double action," a term generally associated with a long and heavy pull. BATF says it's DAO, and for many, that's all that matters. The manufacturer itself avoids the term and calls its pistols "safe action" guns.
A bit of history is in order. In the mid-1980s, Miami cops perceived themselves as losing the firepower race with their six-shot .38 revolvers versus the hi-cap 9mm autos they were seeing as the trademark gun of the dope dealers. They asked for the same kind of hardware.
The chief didn't like the idea, but went on record as saying he'd adopt a 9mm auto if the troops found one that was double action only, heh, heh, heh. When asked about making one, the big players -- Beretta, SIG and S&W -- blew off the concept. Glock, however, enthusiastically provided prototypes of its new design, and the BATF picked an opportune moment to declare the Glock pistol DAO, and for the troops it was "heh, heh, heh" back. The 18-shot 9mm Glock 17 passed all tests, the chief had no choice but to adopt it as standard issue for Miami PD, and the ball started rolling. By the early 90s, the Glock was the dominant brand of police pistol in the U.S., a market trend that has only solidified.
Beretta, SIG, and Smith jumped on the bandwagon with DAO variants of their traditional double action first shot guns. Thus, ironically, the question of whether or not the Glock is DAO must be seen in light of the fact that Glock, in a real sense, created the entire modern DAO trend.
January 26, 2007, 06:14 PM
Contrary to what's posted above, a Glock ISN'T cocked until you pull the trigger; unless you pull the trigger, the striker remains in a forward position. What the Glock design DOESN'T have is what's called a "second-strike capability". That is, if you squeeze the trigger with a live round in the chamber, and that round doesn't fire, pulling the trigger AGAIN won't do anything, since the Glock requires the slide to cycle to reset the trigger-bar in position to cock and release the striker again. In this case (just like you should do with any OTHER semi-auto with a dud round), you need to tap the magazine in to make sure it's seated properly, rack the slide to eject the dud and load a fresh round into the chamber, then fire.
January 26, 2007, 06:38 PM
A glock is both "pre-cocked", and a double action. The striker is pulled just slightly rearward under the tension of its own spring when the slide is allowed to go forward. However, when you pull the trigger you add an additional "cocking", if you will, to the striker. This is what makes it double action.
January 26, 2007, 08:27 PM
No, they are not... they're Safe-Action... just like it says in the brochure! :evil:
January 26, 2007, 08:34 PM
"a Glock ISN'T cocked until you pull the trigger"
It's semi-cocked when the slide goes back. The trigger cocks it the rest of the way. It's closer to SAO - a true DA gun allows second-strike capability.
January 26, 2007, 09:07 PM
double-action trigger performs the two functions of cocking and then releasing the hammer or striker.
IMO the Glock is a double action pistol. The striker being partially retracted or the innability to perform a second strike with out first retracting the slide isn't pertinent to the defining function of the triggers action.
January 26, 2007, 09:41 PM
"isn't pertinent to the defining function of the triggers action."
I guess you could say that - but the partially-cocked and the light trigger pull seems more akin to SA IMO. Could be wrong, but I'm guessing that most DA guns prior to the Glock had second-strike capabilities, which is why I consider that 'true' double action.
January 26, 2007, 09:53 PM
The striker is pulled just slightly rearward under the tension of its own spring when the slide is allowed to go forward.The striker is a good deal farther back than "just slightly rearward"--it's about halfway between its fully forward and fully rearward positions before the trigger is pulled. The trigger pull completes the cocking (about half or a little more than half of the stroke by length of compression) and releases the striker.
The trigger, EXTERNALLY, behaves like a long throw SINGLE action trigger since the slide must operate to half-cock the striker between each trigger pull. If all you had to go on was the way the trigger acts (without looking inside the gun) you'd have to classify it as single action.
INTERNALLY, it operates like a hybrid of a double action and a single action. About half the cocking operation is done by the slide, the other half by the trigger.
The benefit of that is that the gun is never fully cocked unless the trigger is pulled nearly all the way rearward. Glock says there's not enough energy in the striker spring to fire the gun during the half-cock position before the trigger pull begins. In that respect it's like a double action.
January 26, 2007, 09:55 PM
A Glock is "safe action" despite how safe it may actually be. :rolleyes: It is NOT pure DA nor is it SA. It is what it is and Glock calls it "safe action". It cannot be "cocked", of course, because it has no hammer, only a striker, sorta like the RG26 I had, another fine striker fired design:barf: , just that the striker in a Glock is pre-cocked.
As you might can guess, I don't care for "safe action" for carry. Glock is a high quality product otherwise, always works, quite accurate. If you like "safe action", go for it. I'll pass, though. If I really wanted a "safe action", I'd get a Springfield Armory XD with the grip safety.
January 26, 2007, 09:55 PM
Think of the Glock this way.
A 1911 series 80 with the hammer on half cock and the safety engaged.
You pull the trigger and it 1. releases the thumb safety automatically and 2. it brings the hammer to full cock position and 3. when the trigger reaches its rearmost position it drops the hammer and also moves the firing pin lock out of the way allowing the gun to fire.
It isn't double action and it isn't single action, it is a unique design all its own.
So unique other manufacturers have now began to copy the design in one form or another.
"a Glock ISN'T cocked until you pull the trigger"
It's semi-cocked when the slide goes back.
Just like a woman is semi-pregnant, up until the point when she actually BECOMES pregnant?
January 27, 2007, 02:14 AM
Just like a woman is semi-pregnant, up until the point when she actually BECOMES pregnant?Cute but inaccurate analogy. As already mentioned, Glock states that there is not enough energy in the striker spring to fire the gun when the gun is in the "semi-cocked" state achieved by racking the slide.
And that's beside the fact that there are at least 3 parts preventing the striker from moving forward until the trigger has been almost fully compressed.
January 27, 2007, 03:02 AM
CountGlockula, I recall S&W making many true DAO 3rd generation pistols.
To me, the trigger mechanism in the not-quite-DA has the disadvantages of DA and SA without the key advantages of either.
January 27, 2007, 04:13 AM
According to the BATFE Glock pistols are Double Action. According to the terminolgy in the latest US Military RFI (Requests For Information) and RFP (Request For Proposal) Glocks fall into the ambiguous category SFA - Striker Fired Action. I think of them as striker fired, that operate in a modified DA manner. The old definitions just don't fit the mechanisms as well. Just understand how it operates and become comfortable with it.
RON in PA
January 27, 2007, 04:17 AM
Whatever the Glock is, this is certain, the Glock trigger pull is the same, from shot to shot. That makes for easier training.
January 27, 2007, 06:16 AM
Well technically, no.
January 27, 2007, 10:07 AM
According to the terminolgy in the latest US Military RFI (Requests For Information) and RFP (Request For Proposal) Glocks fall into the ambiguous category SFA - Striker Fired Action. And there ya go. The traditional terms "Single Action" and "Double Action" don't really apply to guns without hammers.
January 27, 2007, 10:23 AM
What is a concise definition of a striker-fire mechanism? (Sorry to ask a noob question like that)
January 27, 2007, 08:10 PM
IIRC the Glock is approximately one-third cocked so it would be considered double action. The XD is around 95 percent cocked so people refer to it as single action. In reality the trigger feel is about the same. The double and single action terminology for striker fired guns is not as simple as with guns that have exposed hammers like revolvers.
January 27, 2007, 08:26 PM
a true DA gun allows second-strike capability.Not exactly...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/4586before.jpgDespite what they were called, the S&W models weren't true DAO eithers. For those that disagree, please explain what two actions were performed by pulling the trigger during a second strike pull?
January 27, 2007, 08:39 PM
January 27, 2007, 08:46 PM
As you can tell, your original post has now been answered perfectly!
January 27, 2007, 10:23 PM
After reading through this thread, I see that the Glock is half-cocked (I always wondered where that term came from). Also, I see that the military--incredible as it seems--is right on with this kind of weapon. SFA--Striker Fired Action--is not vague. It is the right description.
To try to call the Glock SA or DA is to apply a revolver term to another kind of gun. It's a little like asking the manufacturer of a car with fuel injection, "Is it a two-barrel or four-barrel?" Well, it's neither. It's fuel injection. You don't apply carb terms to FI.
I'm not sure the Glock and the XD line are exactly the same. With the XD, you can see the rear end of the striker when it is cocked. Not so with the Glock. So the XD may be fully cocked and therefore more likely to accidentally discharge?
That said, I still feel more comfortable with the Springfield XD than with the Glock pointing into my pants! The grip safety on the XD is a worthwhile safety feature, even though I can shoot the Glock 19 a bit more accurately than the XD Subcompact.
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