9mm lead bullet with .357 and .358


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357mag357
January 28, 2007, 12:50 PM
I picked up some 9mm 125g swaged lead bullets. I got them cheap from a friend who doesn't reload anymore. The Company is called Alberts. I don't think they are still in business. I measured alot of them and they were .357 and .358. Seem a little big for 9mm which should be .355 or.356 I loaded some of them and look ok. Will I damage my gun if I shoot these because of too much pressure? If I can't use these bullets for 9mm what about 38 special.

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DaveInFloweryBranchGA
January 28, 2007, 01:22 PM
Before you decide you can't use them in 9MM, do a serrosafe cast of your 9MM bore. You may find they're just right for the 9MM you have. A lot of European 9MM's are larger in bore size than the .355 saami spec. My Bulgarian Browning Hi Power Clone measures out at .357, so those slugs would work great in it. They should also work fine in a .357.

Regards,

Dave

ReloaderFred
January 28, 2007, 01:46 PM
I haven't seen Alberts bullets in years! They were generally pretty soft, with a black coating.

They won't damage your gun, as long as your powder charge is reasonable. They usually worked best with light to moderate loads, due to being so soft and the dry lubricant.

Hope this helps.

Fred

357mag357
January 28, 2007, 03:47 PM
9mm bullet 125g LRN on far left
38 Special 125g LRN
9mm cartidge 125g LRN
9mm bullet 125g LRN on far right

ReloaderFred
January 28, 2007, 04:56 PM
Yep, those are Alberts bullets alright. The size variations you noted were probably due more to the coating they used for lube, more than the actual size of the swaged lead bullet. Their bullets were tumble lubed, and some got more lube than others. They're fine for plinking and general shooting, but they never made a target grade bullet that I'm aware of.

Hope this helps.

Fred

trickyasafox
January 28, 2007, 05:33 PM
ya know i wanted to play with some LRN 135gr 9mm i had in a 357, but now im curious, can you take the 158gr LSWC in 38 /357 and run them in a 9 with a reduced load if they cycle, or is the profile too long forcing the bullet back making unsafe pressure?

357mag357
January 28, 2007, 06:37 PM
I used 3.6g of Titegroup for the 9mm 125g LRN. Hodgdon website list 3.2 - 3.8g for a 125g LRNFP bullet which I will try also. I will let you know how they shoot.

357mag357
January 28, 2007, 06:51 PM
What I was trying to say was Hodgdon list 3.2 - 3.8g for a 125g LRNFP 38 special bullet with a .358 diam. :banghead:

highlander 5
January 28, 2007, 07:21 PM
IIRC SAAMI specs for 9 mm bore can run as large as .357 don't think that size bullet would chamber though. If the bullets are soft lead they will probably obtruate and fit the bore I won't expect target grade accuracy though.

ReloaderFred
January 28, 2007, 11:28 PM
Tricky,

Handloader Magazine has had several articles on loading heavy cast bullets in 9mm. I've done it with 158 grain bullets, and they shoot fine, but slow. There is data available, if you're really interested.

Fred

357mag357
January 31, 2007, 06:21 PM
Those Albert bullets were very inacurate in 9mm, however they were pretty good chambered for 38 special.

kBob
January 31, 2007, 06:25 PM
Well thank goodness for the search function. Last night I ran across an old Alberts catalog/flier ( sixth edition June 1983) going through some old boxes of gun stuff and was about to post the question "Does this outfit still exist even under some other name?"

I used up a box or three of the 500 counts of the 158 SWC .357 bullets back in I guess the early to mid 1980s. I did not shoot matches with them, but I liked them a lot. I beleive I still have 10-20 somewhere in the shop.

They had a small or I should say shallow hollow base of sorts which I am convinced helped give then better ability to seal a bore and center the bullet and reduce tipping. I used them in a number of .38 Specials and a pair of S&W .357s and a convertable .357/9x19 Blackhawk.

I never got the bullets I wanted, they made a .357 wadcutter bullet of 146 grains with a hydroshock type pin in a hollow point design that could be driven hard enough in a 2 inch .38 Special to assure expansion. That seemed rather grand in 1983.

BTW they listed loads as being available for the use of there 158 grain .357 byllet in round nose, SWC, and SWC-HP in the 9x19 mm, the .38 Super, and the S&W .38 in addition to .38 Special and .357 magnum loads.

Overall length was critical in the 9x19 ( ten inch twist only) ( also sizing to true .357 is required) and .38 Super loads as wellas the little .38 S&W.

The only loads in the remains of my flier for a .357 caliber 125 grain use the same bullet (#1011) in .38Special, .38 Super, and 9x19mm BTW.

Before anyone asks, no I will not post the loads from the flier here or anyplace else as my wife, the Lawyer, extracted promises from me to never post powder loads on line.

Seek copies of loading tables from sources having isurance to back their posting the same. Sorry.

What I had planned to ask about specifically was their 150 grain SWC design for .30 caliber rifles. The Shutzen Plinker got a lot of good write ups about two and a half decades ago for loads pretty much matching the old .30-06 gallery specials used byt the National Guard and reserves many moons ago.

The soft swaged Albert's SP were touted as being easier to load than cast .30 cal bullets and being softer tended to be easier to stop on plates or in sand back stops.

I would love to have some to work up plinking loads for .30-30, .308, and .30-06. I have to wonder if they might work in a French or Swiss 7.5 and given they are so long and have that little hollow in the base wonder if they might have worked well for near subsonic loads in the 7.62x54R.

Alberts also made a .44 and .36 caliber bullet design for Cap and Ball revolvers that looked neat. They were much like what I saw later called the Ball-et a low round nose profile on a cylinder with an over sized collar between the ogive and bore riding section of the bullet. Again I never tried any but it seemed a good design.

There are quotes on the quality and performance of the bullets in the remains of the flier I have: Shooting Industry October 1979, American Handgunner (J.D. Jones) Jan-Feb 1980, and Shooting Times (Frank B. Petrini) Nov 1979.

I have seen a number of adds for hard cast .308 cal bullets, does any one today make anything like the swaged Alberts Shutzen Plinker?

-Bob Hollingsworth.

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