[rwmcquigge]

i have been searching for a one stop rifle,one that will fix all my needs, i have found the .338 federal and i am wondering what anybody thinks on this round?
i wanted a rifle that will work well for deer,black bear,moose,.
i thought about 280,30-06.and other popular cartrages but wanted something a little differant than anybody else.
so what does everybody think ????

[BIGR]

I have been wondering the same thing. I have several 30.06's and one 300 WIN MAG. but have this urge to get something different. According to the magazine articles I have read the .338 Federal would be a good big game caliber. It has just a little more knock down than the 30.06 according to the charts. Only time will tell.

[MCgunner]

I voted .308 because I'll never go outside the lower 48, probably never get outside Texas again, and I like light weight short action rifles. If I hunted Alaska, though, I was looking at this rifle the other day for that SKS vs Slug post and really sorta got smitten with the idea of the 325 WSM. Now, I ain't really into the short magnum craze, probably because I don't need magnum power, but this little browning sure would be handy and fast up in the great white north and the cartridge delivers the power. If I lived up there, it might be all the excuse I'd need. :D I have a friend that has a BLR in .308 and it's a nice rifle and quite accurate.

But, for my hunting, the .308 serves me well as an all around rifle.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=003B&cat_id=034&type_id=006

[Greybeard]

Quote; " but wanted something a little differant than anybody else."

the .338 would fit that description.

The old '06 is go to rifle works for me, at least on critters I hunt that are any bigger than a coyote (including elk). .

[DogBonz]

But, you said all around, so i voted 30-06.

[langenc]

After reading the article about 338 Fed my son and I decided it is DOA.

[captonion]

It will be a great round although it wont be popular(sorry to say).

[MCgunner]

Well, if you wanna be different, you gotta handload. Handloading opens up a LOT of possibilities, wildcats and such. You'd have to have a gun built or at least custom chambered in any wildcat, of course.

My old .257 Roberts is a LITTLE "different". You could go older, "obsolete" something like the .257. It still does everything it ever did, about as good as a .25-06 (with my handloads) and in a short action gun to boot! I really love that old thing still, of course have a lot of memories with it. I'm not sure why .257 died a slow death, but it's not around anymore, so it's "different". It was a GREAT caliber. .264 Win Mag is "different" in this sort of way and uses the excellent 6.5mm bullets with their great SDs and BCs. Or, for a cannon, how about the 8mm Rem Mag? Just go through the list of effective cartridges that didn't make the popularity contest in sales and pick one that suits you. But, you'll have to reload.

When I bought my 7 Mag, I bought it knowing that if I didn't like it, I could always load it down to .280 Remington ballistics. I thought of it as different compared to the .30-06 and a little better at long range and heavy game, but of course, the 7 Mag is anything, BUT unpopular, LOL! I don't know, it's kinda nice knowing that if you're on a trip, there is factory ammo available if you need it, though I never have. I usually take a back up rifle on a hunting trip anyway. You just never know when you'll need it. I loaned my .257 to a guy in camp out in West Texas once when his .351 Winchester chambered old, obscure autoloader quit on him. Talk about different! LOL He killed a doe with the .257 and was real appreciative of the loaner and praised the little rifle. One more deer among dozens that fell to the mighty Roberts.

[jimmyraythomason]

Of course you could just get a .280Rem and call it a 7mm Remington Express or a 7mm Mauser and call it a .275 Rigby,to be different. 30.06 got my vote as per your criteria.

[chuckmo]

is a .308 case, so it would fit the 'short-action' criteria listed above, and be better on moose than the '06. It's ballistics are better than you might think. I say try it.

[H&Hhunter]

The .338 Federal definitely has some promise. But she's never going to be a contender. I'd say much like the .358 it's DOA.

Only a few of use gun nuts will cherish her squat efficient body and less than gun writer worthy velocity.

It is probably what the .358 should have been in the first place. But I'm keeping my 06 and my .358. This new mistress has no place in my heart.


Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic, my rifles that get serious use are.

a

.22LR
.30-06
.375H&H
and
.470NE

I've got one hyperzippereargasplizen magnum but we just don't have much in common besides a sultry range session now and then our relationship has been purely cerebral.;) :D

[Grumulkin]

I think where the 338 Federal might have a place would be for handgun hunting where one thinks he might need a little more power than available in a 308 Winchester. One could also use the 358 Winchester for this but there would be a better selection of bullets for the 338 Federal.

Anyway, my vote for an "all around" rifle went to the 30/06 since it will take anything in the U.S.A. Actually it's capable of taking any land animal though considered a bit light for the likes of elephant, cape buffalo, etc. It also does very well on ground hogs, rabbits, etc.

[highlander 5]

Though its not on the list how about a "wildcat" 338/06?
Comes within 200 fps of the 338 Win without the belted case and huge powder charges cases are easy to form though I'd use 35 Whelan brass to keep someone from mistakenly putting a 338/06 in his rifle

[22-rimfire]

The 338 Federal concept is interesting. I was considering a 338 Mag and was a bit hesitant about the recoil. The Federal offers some advantages similar to all the short mag loadings. I have only seen the ammunition in the largest of gunshops. If it is to stay alive as a viable choice, the major rifle manufactures need to chamber a rifle in it. My guess is that it's DOA.

[BIGR]

I have the ammo for the .338 Federal at Gander Mountain. I opened a box of it and had to look at one of the rounds to see what it looked like. It is a short round for sure. Does anyone build a 338/06 in a rifle or is it a round that would have be cusom built. Didn't WEATHERBY chamber the 338/06 A Square years ago?

[dakotasin]

one chambering to do everything? 338 win mag is it. what an awesome, underappreciated round!

[BsChoy]

as much as I want to play with the 338 fed the 30-06 is proven and a very versatile cartridge

[Ohen Cepel]

I voted for the 30-06. However, if you just want something different get the .338Fed.

Or, look for (or have made) a .35 Whelen. It's a proven North American rifle and handloading ammo is easy enough (made from '06 brass). Not sure about the .338 if ammo gets hard to find in 10 years.

[Charles S]

I voted for the 30-06 because you stated an all around gun. The 30-06 will do varmints to the largest bears.

I really like the 338 Federal, I will own one or a 358 Winchester. I really like the 338 Federal on paper.

I will build a rifle in a short action in either 338 Federal, 358 Winchester, or 250 Remington Magnum.

I think where the 338 Federal might have a place would be for handgun hunting where one thinks he might need a little more power than available in a 308 Winchester. One could also use the 358 Winchester for this but there would be a better selection of bullets for the 338 Federal.

Have you shot a 308 in a handgun? A 308 is my absoulute upper limit on recoil (a 44 magnum does not bother me at all) I cannot imagine a caliber with more recoil than a 308. Everyone has their own limits.

[HankB]

.338 Federal is OK from a ballistics standpoint, but I tend to steer clear of oddball rounds . . . I suppose if you've already GOT a bunch of rifles and are looking for something "different" it's fine, but IMHO it would be a mistake to choose a chambering for a proprietary cartridge with limited availability as one's only rifle.

A .30/06 is good for any game the .338 Federal is suitable for.

[Sunray]

You don't need any kind of magnum for moose. .338 or otherwise. The ammo is expensive(.338 Fed runs about $40 per 20) and has excessive muzzle blast and felt recoil for most shooters. Shot next to a guy with a .338 Win Mag long ago. His muzzle blast was nearly knocking me off the bench. Didn't see his target, but I suspect the groups were large.
The .30-06, .308 or a host of other standard cartridges are plenty for moose. They're not hard to kill. Plus you need to think about availability of ammo in small places. It's a sad thing to get off hunting only to find you've left your ammo on the kitchen table and not be able to nip into the local Walmart for another box.
If you want something different, think about the 6.5 x 55. It's the standard Swedish moose cartridge. Shouldn't be hard to find in any Walmart either.

[GooseGestapo]

The .338Fed will be a good round, but I don't see it getting "traction".

As far as an all around "round", I doubt that it's "quite it".

Don't get me wrong, You couldn't go wrong with it, but in my experience, you'll be less than thrilled.

Out of the gazillion rifles I've owned, I would have to say the the best "all around" is the Remington M7 in 7mm08 with a 20"bbl.

This little rifle is a joy to carry and hunt with. So far since aquiring it in 2004, It's taken two dozen deer, an Elk (reason it was obtained), and a pig, not to mention a couple of coyotes and several smaller varmints.

The cost per shot, recoil, and adaptability of the 7mm08 can't be beat.
I use Remington 140gr CorLokts for "plinking", ect. but it would serve for any reasonable purpose you'd put the 7mm08 to. The 140gr Partition does "special" duty. A friend used it in Colorado in Oct'05 to take a 6x6 bull that weighed "by outfitter!" 1,200lbs (taken on private property).
I also like the 140gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, but I am aghast at how poorly the 140gr SST has performed (think FMJ).

I love my .338/06 (ballistic "big brother" to the .338Fed). It will hold 5+1 rds vs my .300RemUltMag's 2+1 rds, so will be the "longer" gun to accompany my Marlin GuideGun when I go to Alaska.
And, the .30/06 is just..............boreing!!! The .338/06 though better, is better by only a slim margin, and bullets are 2x cost of .30's.

If I were to go with another "larger" than 7mm, It'd be the .350RemMag. in something like the Remington Mod7.

Remember, you carry the rifle FAR-FAR more than you shoot it. I can't see taking my Savage M110 in .300RUM (weighs 10lbs) or my .338/06- also 10lbs back to Colorado and walk 10+mi. per day at 7000-10,000'. The 6.5lb Remington, YES !
I don't even see my self taking my latest "toy", a .257WbyMag anywhere but a shooting house/stand overlooking a large field/powerline, about 200yds from the truck!!!
You can feed it (.350RemMag) the Remington 200gr Pt.SoftPt. Corlokts reasonably inexpensively (~18.00/100) and it's more compact than the .35Whelen, and more powerful than the .338Fed.

And, BTW, the .338/06 is actually only 90-120fps below the .338Mag. I've loaded and chronographed both. I still have the .338/06, though in a decent rifle, the recoil of the .338mag is about like the .300winMag. Not all that bad. Not quite like the .300RUM.
Just my experience.

[Charles S]

Sunray, Great information on moose hunting. I have not done it yet, but I will.

GooseGestapo, great post on rifles. My hunting style has changed and now tends to involve a lot more walking. I agree that a lighter quick handling rifle is a joy to hunt with.

Art's 7-08 intrigues me it sounds nice (Remington 700 Titanium).

[Brian Williams]

I will stay with my 7mm-08 and look for a 358 some day. I would like to have a three rifle set of Win Model 70 Compact classics, in 22-250, 7mm-08 and 358 win. With those three all set up in a similar manner, I would be able to take care of any shooting in the lower 48 and not have a problem.

[steelhead]

I would like to have a three rifle set of Win Model 70 Compact classics, in 22-250, 7mm-08 and 358 win.

That is my current setup and I will be adding the 375 Ruger to it as well and maybe even a 338-375 Ruger.

As for the 338 Fed, if you plan to to reload I wouldn't get it. Many have reported problems trying to match the factory loads. The factory loads are using some special poweder mix with a little pixie dust thrown in to generate those velocities. Handloaders have been trying to replicate it but are running into pressure issues. If you reload, and want to stay with a .338, I would go with the 338-06.

[BIGR]

Any factory rifles in 338-06 or is that a custom build only caliber?

[steelhead]

If you have a Savage or Stevens long action you can do it yourself for about $160. Any other brand will run you over $300 for a smith to do it by swapping barrels or maybe for a little less by boring out the barrel (30.06) to 338.

[BIGR]

Thanks for the info Steelhead.

[GooseGestapo]

BigR;
A-Sqare built the rifles and produced the ammo, and the SAAMI standardization data calls it the .338/06 A-Square.
Weatherby produced the Super BigGame Master MkV in the .338/06 but called it the .338/06 Weatherby, as well but no longer catalogs it except as a special order option. Ammo is still available in the Weatherby version (same cartridge, just different names).

Lee stamps it's dies .338/06 Ackley to keep from having to pay license fee's to the recievership for A-Square for use of the name.

You can very cheaply build yourself a .338/06 if you want one.
You can either get a Savage M110 or a Mauser M98 variant and order a barrel from MidwayUSA and have a gunsmith install the barrel, or even order the tools from MidwayUSA and build it yourself.

I bought my barrel on sale for $57.00. A gunsmith charged me $100.00 to fit, ream, and blue the barrel and action of my MkX Mauser. Throw in the dies that cast $22.00 and voila, in 3 weeks I had my custom .338/06.

It, with ammo it likes will shoot to about 1" for 3-shots, maybe better with the best load but Nosler no longer makes that bullet (180gr BallisticTip) though they do make the 180gr Accubond at 2x the price. I routinely see 2,900-3,000fps with a 180gr, 2,800fps with a 200gr, 2700+ with a 210-215, and 2,600+ with a 225. I've yet to run across a "deal" on some 250's so I haven't tried any yet. Its basically a ".300magnum" from a .30/06 case. It gets roughly the same velocity as the .338winmag with a bullet weighing ~20-25grs lighter.

I would suggest though that you go with the .35Whelen. There are more bullet options, especially the excellent 200gr Remington Corlokt PtdSpt. for general use, also more readily available factory ammo (Remington). Ballistic difference is nothing to make note of. Just a few higher digits on the chrono for the .338 than the .35.
Or, save yourself a bundle and stick with the .30/06 and 2-3boxes of factory ammo every year. (but what fun is that ??)

[LAK]

All other things equal, the .338 Federal should not produce any more blast than a .308, nor produce any more felt recoil than a .358 Win.

I think it is a neat idea; however .308 bullets of equal weight have better sectional density. A .30 caliber 180 grain Nosler Partition is capable of plenty.

----------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[Charles S]

Lee stamps it's dies .338/06 Ackley to keep from having to pay license fee's to the recievership for A-Square for use of the name.

The 338/06 A-Square/Weatherby has a different shoulder angle than the 338/06 Ackley. Both the 338-06 and the 338-06 Ackley can be used in an Ackley chambered gun, but 338-06 Ackley cannot be used in a standard 338-06 chamber.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=304

Lee does not call is standard 338-06 die Ackley.

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/dies-rifle.html

About 2/3 down the page.

[BIGR]

I'VE got three 30.06's a 300 WIN. MAG. , 7mm08, 22-250 and .223 but would like to have something different that not every Joe in the woods has. Something with a little more umph than the 06 and maybe just under a 338 WIN. MAG. I reload so ammo wouldn't be a huge problem. Sounds like the 338 federal or 35 whelen might be getting close to what I am thinking about.

[kludge]

When you said all around I though -06, but when you said moose I thought .338 Federal, so that's how I voted. I know nothing about it other that it has some impressive ballistics, and seems to be very flat shooting.

[carnaby]

I would have put the .300 win mag on the list. That's what I've got and I like it. I'm a noob, so that doesn't really count, but it seems like a do-all round :)

[s&w 24]

good old '06 will do anything the 338 fed will do but if you just love the 338 fed go for it you'll be happy with it.

[terry264]

From the list you have posted for choices for an "all around" caliber, I would choose the .30/06. If you reload, choose anything you want, even if it needs fire formedbeltedradiusedworkuploadpuffinwooferMagnum. But if you are looking for ammo. away from your usual/familiar buying area and need ammo=you will find .30/06's. Just my opinion.

[bromdenlong]

It seems like a good round, on paper, but what's it going to do that an 8mm Mauser won't do? (or .358, .35 Whelen, etc., as previously noted)

8mm Mauser (8x57) will be cheaper by far to shoot, whether you handload or not. If you've no objection to shooting corrosive surplus ammo, you can save tons of money practicing. Even if you don't like corrosive surplus stuff, you can find cheap hunting ammo online. Just buy Sellier & Bellot or some other reasonable foreign make. Most American ammo makers load it too soft, unless you want .30-30 power levels. And if you handload, I'm pretty sure the brass should be available a lot cheaper than .338 Federal brass. If you can't find 8x57 brass easily, you can cut down .30-06 brass, or .270, or .35 Whelen, etc.

[.30-378]

It is a pig with lipstick (Federal's name) - all you have is a liptsick covered pig. Many other things already do this, so who cares about some mid-level junker that is a woods gun for deer, at best.

nuff sed

[hm2 clark]

I've got me 3 all around guns. In 338-06, 30-06 and 6.5x55. Each has its uses, but I shoot the 6.5x55 a LOT more. I can tell you that the old Swede rifle works on Canadian Moose and American deer and hogs. Still, I cant think of a more useful short action caliber than the 338 Federal.

[smokemaker]

The .338 Federal is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. .358 WCF anyone? Does .020" of bullet diameter make that much of a difference at normal hunting ranges? Does anyone take either of these rounds seriously much past 300 yards? If your shooting across huge grain fields in the midwest, neither is a great choice. The .30-06 will do better beyond 300 yards, and better sectional density per same bullet weight as the .338 lipstick-pig (I like that name!)

I've already got a .35 Whelen... It'll out perform the little piggy at all bullet weights, when properly handloaded at the ranges I'm shooting game at. (250 yards is a long ways for most hunters) I don't feel handicapped with a standard length action, and don't think this new cartridge is going anywhere fast.

My lousy $.02
Jeff

[WYO]

I didn't vote because I figure that within 300 yards no critter will know the difference if the bullet is matched to the game. If you're going to be shooting longer distances, then I would narrow it down to the long action calibers on that list. If you still want to be different, then that leaves you with the .280. At the time of this post, it only has one vote. :)

[rcsund]

was passing by and thought I would give an opinion. The big thing for a single round is the distance you are hunting and how big the thing is you are shooting. I have been hunting for over 30 years and have almost exclusively used a 30-06. Hogs in the under brush and a 12 or 20 gauge with slugs is good. Aguilar makes a half sized 12 slug that I can put 10 into a Winchester 120 Ranger pump and drop a 300 lb pig at 50 yards with 9 more in back up.

As for the 338 Federal. I just got Savage 99 in 308 from a pawn shop and I am going to rebarrel it to a 338. I was going to rebarrel one of my 06 to a 338-06 AI but I have been surprised at the number of sporting good stores that are carrying the 338 Federal. This in a 210 Noslar is going to be a nice Elk load in a short barrel lever gun for high timber. Or at least I am hoping it will be.

Blessings to all

[Browning]

I've looked into the .338 Federal and it sounds like a good cartridge and a good idea, but we gun owners, shooters and hunters are a fickle bunch. Who knows if it would stay for good. I've looked at the Ruger Frontier Scout type rifle that came out recently in .338 Fed and thought about getting it, but I'd like to wait and see how the cartridge does first. I'd hate to spend money only to see the cartridge do a nose dive in the next couple of years and not be able to get it. If I was a handloader, it might not make a difference, but I'm not, so I'll just wait and see.

[Art Eatman]

Well, Browning, all ya gotta do is get into the handloading game. :D:D:D

Art

[SoCalShooter]

300 weatherby is my choice for my all around hunting rifle, not to big for deer, not to small for bear.

[Browning]

AE, that would be nice, but I don't have alot of time right now. Plus, I hate to admit it, but I'm a little intimidated by the whole idea, I wouldn't know where to start. A buddy of mine owns a gun shop and so I get pretty good deals on factory ammo (at cost), so I'm not hurting for ammo right now and I don't own anything that's chambered in an uncommon cartridge. So other than the cost factor and maybe increasing performance a little bit for long range shooting which would be my primary reason for learning, there's really no need to handload right now.

It's something that I've thought about getting into before, but like I said, I wouldn't know where to start. As far as touching something off inches from my face that I've put together myself at three thousand feet per second, it doesn't sound like a good idea if I don't have someone to hand hold me through it in person the first couple go arounds until I'm comfortable with the whole process. Eventually I'll have someone I know help me out in this area, but I want to do it right, not just try to muddle through it on my own. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[Oohrah]

I picked the 30-06 for mostly an all around. For different, I have
one rehambered to 30 Gibbs that takes out the taper, leaves a sharp
shoulder with a 308 neck length. Allows further powder cap. that
really makes a difference in heavy bullet weights. Somewhere around
300 H@H without the recoil of the mags.
For really different that will most likely be picked up by any major
company is a 25-308 built on a 95 Mauser. Beauty is in the eyes of
the beholder.:D

[Art Eatman]

Browning, my uncle started using me as child labor back in 1950, loading ammo for him. Then he gave me an old Enfield 1917 in '06 and I've pretty much been good for nothing, ever since. :D

It's no big deal. Where ya save money is, it keeps ya outta the beer joints at night. I've done a lot of loading during Monday Night Football; there are only 22 minutes of action in that three hours. :D

Art

[trueblue1776]

I would vote for .30-06 but 26" barrels are less and less common on rifles, so to get the most for my buck I chose the venerable .308

[dfaugh]

...if you're looking for something different in the same "class":

.325 WSM

I'm an 8mm fan---currently building an 8mm-06 AI (Vz-24 action)...which properly handloaded is stepping on the heels of .338 Win Mag, with equal weight bullets.

[Orr89rocz]

I like the new cartridge....a 338-308 is a nice idea...but so was the 356 winchester and 358 winchester which both didnt sell well. the ballistics they advertise for the 338 federal seems promising, but if i was going after bear/elk/moose, i'd opt for something bigger since the ranges will be longer. a good 300 mag is probly better.

Else i'd go for my new favorite, the 35 whelen or even the 338/06 to get more velocity and push heavier bullets. 35 whelen is a proven big game load and recoil is not too bad at all. My lightweight 700 classic kicks fairly stout with big loads but it shoots GREAT. there is nothing the 35 cant do. i think the 338 federal is outclassed by the 35 whelen or 338/06. the 35 just needs better modern loads for it to help it out but its already dying...so handloading is the only option. I cant wait to start playing with handloading

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

The 338 Fed is definately that. But at a price! Have you looked at the price for ammunition? Not to mention there are but a few rifles chambered for it. And other than it being a beltless, 'er uh, not a magnum, it certainly isn't a .338 Win mag. All around gun? Boderline for Moose in my book. I wouldn't take an '06 into Moose country either. I would prefer a magnum but I suppose that a well placed lesser round would do.

If you really want something different, then go with a Wildcat and make your own. .308 Norma, 30-338, 30-378, .358 Norma... 35 Whelen. (Not all of these are wildcats.. But try to find .358 Norma on the Walmart shelf)

Or... if you want just a bit more performance from an '06, go with 30-06 Ackley Improved. You can still shoot factory ammo, but then reload the fireformed cases for even better performance.


All I can suggest is well,,, What's worked for some 48 years. .338 Win Mag. If you're truly wanting a larger round than a 30-06. Otherwise, the one gun hunter should own a 30-06. A two gun hunter should have a 30-30 too.

-Steve

[GunTech]

All around would have to be 375 H&H. If you limit yourself to North America (CONUS) 30-06 will do it all.

[cooch]

Those wanting something different....
.318 Westley Richards. (Bell used one)
.333 Jeffrey.
.333 OKH
.334 OKH.

[BobMcG]

The .338 Fed seems like a decent round to be sure, and I do own a couple of .308s. However, I still consider my .30-06 to be the choice for best all around gun.

[hamourkiller]

Where is the .375 H&H?? choice.

[H&Hhunter]

Where is the .375 H&H??


I am looking at one right here leaning against the table.:)

The best darn round ever invented.;)

[BobMcG]

As fine a round as it may be is it versatile enough for smaller game though? ... IE: Do you use it on woodchucks (or similar) too? :confused:

I have made good use of the .30-06 on these critters with 110gr PSP and 55gr Accelerators.

[cooch]

Maybe that's what we need for the .375H&H.
A sabot load launching - say - .308 cal 165 grain BT at maybe 3500FPS.

How does that sound?

[Old Trapper]

Ya'll have really entertained me with this discussion. There seems to be a lot of knowledge and experience to draw on here. So, how important is length of bullet in the class of cartridges being discussed in this thread??

Back in the 1960s Jack O'Connor once wrote that the 06 was the best all-around cartridge for North America, and also described the .375 H&H as the best all-around African round. Apparently, not much has changed in a half Century.

In my mind when we play with improving on the 06 for North America we are having fun thinking about low-probability events rather than those most common circumstances when we usually make meat. At least that's the case with my hunting style.

The 06 has served me well and has accounted for most of my deer and elk. I've never lost a wounded animal with the 06, but I did once have to work hard to find a mortally wounded elk that wasn't leaving a blood trail. I'd hit the rag horn high through the lungs shooting up a very steep mountainside in deep snow. About an hour later I found it with its head hanging down in heavy timber about 200 yards from where I first connected.

Blood gushed out of the body cavity when I opened it up revealing that it had just about bled to death internally. The 180 grain Nosler Par. was just under the bull's hide. After that I decided I wanted an exit wound to reduce the probability of losing a wounded animal in the future.

The next couple of years I fed my African fantasies hauling a big heavy and beautiful .375 H&H around the Montana mountains, but never got a shot at an elk while I was carrying that Model 70.

Now I'm again thinking about increasing a the probability of an exit wound, but preferably with a lighter handier short action rifle. Guys I've talked to who are currently execising the .325 WSM in featherweight rifles describe its recoil as being a the brutal side fun when testing handloads at the range.

So fellers, I'd appreciate if you'd weigh in on this one, but from a little different perspective than this thread has travelled so far.

What's it going to take take to have a high probability of an exit wound on an elk when shooting across the body cavity? Can we get there consitently with bullets in the 200-to-250 grain range? How much of an advantage is a longer bullet with higher ballistic coefficient than a relatively shorter fatter bullet? Can .308-based cartridge such as the .338 Federal or the .358 Winchester efficiently handle a long enough bullet for optimal (pass-through) penetration and down-range energy for those low-probability long shots?

It seems like much of the discussion about the .338 Federal and .358 Winchester have focused on bullet weight without consideration of bullet length. Remember that when Bell shot all those elephants with a 7 mm Mauser he was shootling long-heavy 7mm bullets not short high-velocity 7 mm bullets. Bullet length and penetration have traditionally been considered for heavy dangerous game in Africa.

Isn't the biggest disadvantage of the new short fat cartridges designed for short actions -- that they aren't designed to load long bullets as was that first H&H family of magnum cartridges?

Will we eventually go full circle back to longer cartrides in longer actions so that we can load long-enough bullets for the best performance in both heavy-bodied animals and longer shots?

What say ye sages of the range? What kind of size matters most -- length or diameter or weight? What's the smallest optimal combination of length, diameter, and bullet weight for consistently blowing a hole out the far side of an elk? Can a sane man get there with a 6 1/2 pound short-action rifle?:confused:

[Clipper]

Trapper, I'll bet a Ruger Compact in .260Rem shooting the 160gr bullet will do it just fine.

[Old Trapper]

Clipper,

What bullet in a .260 Rem? Have you actually seen the .260 Rem work its magic on an elk?

Recently some gun writer, I forget which, argued that the .260 with a longer bullet with a higher ballistic coeficient would outperform a .308 at over 300 yards.

Personally, I do not aspire to shoot at any mammal at over 300 yards because I know there's a pretty high probability that I might wound it. So, for me personally as a hunter, any ballistic advantages at over 300 yards are theoretical even if theoretically sound?

If we jump up to the next longer family of cartridges, Jack O'Connor once made the case that a 150 grain .270 bullet will perform a little better than the same 150 grain .30 caliber bullet because in the .270 it will have a higher ballistic coeficient and would penetrated a little better in larger animals. If you never need a bullet heavier than 150 grains, then you'll likely develop similar affection to O'Connor's for the .270 -- or maybe the .260 Rem with a 140-grain bullet in a short action rifle.

However from my personal experience, I'm inclined to think one needs a bullet heavier than 180 grains to consistently punch through the far side of an elk to achieve an exit wound and a good blood trail if that is your objective. The 260 can't efficiently handle that long of a bullet, even if some company manufacters such a long .260 bullet.

The .260 Rem in the hands of a good hunter and good marksman will undoubtedly kill a lot more elk than it will wound if good bullets are properly placed. But I'm suggesting that we not only kill the elk, but also find it and care for the meat soon after shooting it -- not a day or two later after the coyotes are working on the carcass.

I'm challenging this forum to recommend the minimum caliber and bullet weight to consistently produce exit wounds and good blood trails on elk-sized game.

Thanks!

[Clipper]

I don't know what else to tell you Trapper, but the 6.5 Swede is the ballistic twin to the .260 and has been knocking elk dead in Europe for over 100 years and is still about the most popular round for that purpose. well designed 140 & 160gr bullets have a reputation for penetration that cannot be denied, but your 'challenge' to the contrary, you seem to have a preconceived notion of what you want, and for whatever reason, you don't want a .260, evidence notwithstanding...

[MeekandMild]

Would you happen to have a good link to information about this round, especially as compared to the 30-06, 338-06 and 35 Whelen?