[Jonnyduckhunter]

Was wondering if anyone knew anything about this shotgun I just purchased, I thought it was different looking so I bought it. So far no one has been able to help me. There are no markings or serial numbers with exception of a stamped "p" in some odd places. There also is a stamp "18" on the butt of the stock. Oh there is an area on the side of the stock that looks like there use to be some wording on it. I first thought it said "Centori", or "Centennial" but Im not sure. Thanks for all the help in advance...http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/Rmkovarik/DSC03167.jpghttp://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j135/Rmkovarik/DSC03166.jpg

[Jim Watson]

Looks like a "Zulu" shotgun.
It is a continental musket converted to breechloader with a side-swinging breechblock similar to a British Snider - one internet source says they used French locks and Belgian barrels.
Something to sell to the poorer settlers and the better off natives in Africa in the late 19th century.
There are a couple of pretty rough ones for sale on the net for $200-$300. Yours is in better shape with nice stock wood and a brass receiver and would be worth a bit more.

[Jonnyduckhunter]

So would it be made by continental?

[Jim Watson]

Uh, "continental" means from the continent of Europe.

Here is what a check at oldguns.net turned up (This is a 1997 reply to a question like yours, they are selling for more than $75 now.)

The hinged breechblock pretty well identifies this as a "Zulu" shotgun. These started life as French Model 1857 muzzle loading percussion muskets. They were later converted to breechloaders using the hinged breechblock, but were basically obsolete even then. A few were used by the Frenchin the Franco Prussion War (1870-71) and most were sold around 1874 to Belgian surplus dealers. The stocks were cut down, the barrels bored out smooth and sold as cheap shotguns. Instead of just being called "Ugly old French muskets made into cheap shotguns" the dealers coined the name "Zulu" invoking images of fierce warriors hunting in the wilds of Africa. These were sold all over the world, Sears offered them for $3.40 to $4.50 in the 1880s and 90s. They are great wall hangers, and dealers rejoice when they can sell one for anything more than about $75.00 today. Guns are loaded with insights into evolving technology, the growth and decline of nations, and the ingenuity of men and women engaged in free enterprise. Wow! You get all this free with each and every Zulu!

[Jonnyduckhunter]

Wow I have a hard time believing that it is only worth $75... I didnt buy it as an investment but at the same time I thought it would be worth a bit more. I did find a link selling an old looking one for around $30 and it looked like it was laying in water for 100 years. Thanks for the help with this as I had no idea what I even purchased.

[dfaugh]

Wow! Yeah, I have a hard time believeing it's worth so little, although I far from a expert on these types of things. Mainly, because of the condition, I gotta believe its gottta have significant value to the right (collector) person.

[Jim Watson]

To quote a usually reliable source (me) the $75 price is in a post ten years old. And a quick Google turned up a couple currently for sale for $195 and $265, not in nearly as nice condition.

I have to ask, though. What led you to buy it when you did not know what it was? This seems fairly common in the shooting boards but is foreign to my way of thinking. I like to know what I am getting.

[Jim K]

Jim, sometimes folks just buy something that fascinates them, without caring a lot about its value. I have done so myself. The trick is that even if you don't know exactly what it is, to know enough to not get taken by some fancy story.

Those guns were Model 1853 or 1857 French muskets, converted in 1867 and called the 1853/67 or 1857/67. AFAIK, the French government conversions used a steel (iron?) breechblock, so that one may have been done by one of the arms traders, as you say. This is made more likely by the removal of the French arsenal marking from the lockplate, something the French didn't do.

The gun was commonly called the "tabatiere" because of a fancied resemblance to a snuff box. Here is a site with more info.

http://www.militaryrifles.com/France/Tabatier.htm

Jim

[Jonnyduckhunter]

Quote "I have to ask, though. What led you to buy it when you did not know what it was? This seems fairly common in the shooting boards but is foreign to my way of thinking. I like to know what I am getting."

To answer your question why I bought this is simple. There was a guy that I know that needed money and I knew that I would get it repaid so I bought the gun. I really enjoy duck hunting and I am a shotgun nut and this one looked different so I took it. Maybe I just have too much money but wanted to help the guy out.

Thanks for all the help guys. You all really seem like you know your stuff. I know where to come next time I need gun advice. Tanke care and Go Bears this weekend!!!!!

[Jim K]

No problem and bless you for helping out a friend. But please do not use that old shotgun for hunting. It just wouldn't be safe, even with black powder shells.

Jim

[Jonnyduckhunter]

Not sure that would ever want to fire this gun. It will be good just to pass down to my son. Thanks again.