HBAR AR15


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loxety
January 30, 2007, 01:29 PM
Whats the difference between an HBAR AR15 and a regular AR15?

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Dr. Dickie
January 30, 2007, 01:31 PM
The HBAR stands for heavy barrel. Military rifles have a lighten, thin barrel beneath the handguards, where the HBAR is a thicker in that area. Heavier barrel is supposed to make it more accurate.
That is my understanding, if I am wrong then please let me know.

DMK
January 30, 2007, 01:41 PM
That's exactly right Dr. Dickie. Well except that an HBAR doesn't automatically mean it's accurate. It just means the barrel is stiffer than a thinner barrel of the same length. That is normally a good thing for accuracy, but there are lots of other variables in how that barrel is made.

Unfortunately Loxety, "regular AR15s" do all have HBARs these days. To get a lightweight barrel, you have to pretty much specially order it that way. Some M4 type carbines (which are supposed to have a lighter, thinner barrel under the handguards, see pic below) are HBARs with just a cut in front of the sight to make them only casually look like M4 profiles, very misleading.

Always ask the seller to remove the handguards so you may inspect the barrel thickness between the reciever and the front sight block.

Some common barrel profiles:

A1 profile: 20" Thin all the way (sometimes called a Pencil Barrel)

Superlight: Pic Here (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-16sla.jpg). A 16" barrel same as above.

A2 Government profile: Pic Here (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-20a2a.jpg).Thin under the handguards, thicker in front of the sight. Usually 20", some 16" Midlengths are made this way.

M4: Pic Here (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl14m4a.jpg). 16" Thin under the handguard, thicker in front of the sight, but has a groove cut there (to mount the front of the M203 grenade launcher on the military guns). this profile is sometimes seen on Bushmaster Dissipator barrels.

M4 SOCOM: 16" Heavier under the handguards, but has a groove under there aslo, to mount the rear of the M203.

Then there's the HBAR. Pic of a 16" (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-16a.jpg), pic of a 20" (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-20a.jpg)

RockyMtnTactical
January 30, 2007, 11:20 PM
The HBAR is a gimmick that many manufacturers use to cut down on machining...

It's not very beneficial in a tactical rifle... I don't even like them in a "sniper" or even a "hunting" rifle.

The AR is an inherently accurate design and a lighter barrel makes it easier to carry.

The only time a HBAR does anything is if you shoot it a lot on full auto (which isn't an issue for most civvies), and even then, it wasn't meant to be a machine gun...

Govt profile (or superlight) all the way! ;)

RockyMtnTactical
January 30, 2007, 11:22 PM
It should be noted that many people refer to an M4 (light under the handguards) profile as a govt profile as well.

Still 2 Many Choices!?
January 31, 2007, 12:06 AM
I like to shoot my rifle while HOT, and I don't notice my groups open up as much as I think they would if I had a thinner barrel profile:) .

loxety
January 31, 2007, 04:56 AM
A salesman at a local shop said that HBARs are not a regulated firearm in Maryland. A normal AR15 is and requires the states 7 day wait/background check.. where the HBAR can be taken home the day you pay for it (like a shotgun).

RockyMtnTactical
January 31, 2007, 06:11 AM
Gun laws are all the same... There is no logical explaination for the reasoning behind them...

270Win
January 31, 2007, 06:13 AM
And that means that HBARs sell like hotcakes at MD gun shows; nonsensical laws allow it, but who's complaining?

Dealers simply put out a placard reading "Take it home today! If it has HBAR written anywhere on the gun, it's non-regulated" and rake in the cash.

swingset
January 31, 2007, 06:30 AM
Believe it or not, some guys prefer the H-bar for its handling characteristics. Try to find some thin barrels on the Camp Perry line. ;)

I wouldn't want to drag one around all day, but I do like having a heavier gun when shooting highpower.

1911 guy
January 31, 2007, 07:54 AM
Then, I carried an M-16 around and would have complained loudly at any more weight.

Now, I have a 22" HBAR that I pop 'yotes and groundhogs with and like the extra weight out front.

Go figure.

loxety
January 31, 2007, 09:59 AM
Are they both mechanically the same with the exception being the heavier barrel? :banghead:

Dr. Dickie
January 31, 2007, 10:12 AM
Yes.

Frog48
January 31, 2007, 11:48 AM
I bought a 16" HBAR, mainly because it was the only 16" they had in stock. So far I like it, the extra weight doesnt bother me. As for accuracy, if its any different, its not enough to be noticeable.

My HBAR. As others have pointed out, there is no difference in barrel diameter. Same all the way down:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a244/SigEpGrant/Outdoors/Firearms/M4A32.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a244/SigEpGrant/Outdoors/Firearms/M4A31.jpg

RockyMtnTactical
January 31, 2007, 01:10 PM
All I'm saying is I have owned HBAR's and saw very little benefit in practical accuracy and I often shoot coyotes with my govt profile barreled AR's w/o a problem.

Seven High
January 31, 2007, 02:45 PM
Do HBARs have tighter chambers than a standard AR-15? Will HBARs handle crap ammo like Wolf?

DMK
January 31, 2007, 02:54 PM
Believe it or not, some guys prefer the H-bar for its handling characteristics. Try to find some thin barrels on the Camp Perry line.Yea, but these are the guys putting lead weights in their buttstocks and in their handguards. That's a special situation with special needs. Absolute accuracy overrides everything within the set rules.

Personally, I like my AR light like a carbine is supposed to be. Weighting it down is like weighting down an M1 carbine and defeats the purpose of the rifle IMO.

Dealers simply put out a placard reading "Take it home today! If it has HBAR written anywhere on the gun, it's non-regulated" and rake in the cash.
Silly legislators. So then you can take it home and swap on the lightweight upper you bought earlier. :rolleyes:

RockyMtnTactical
January 31, 2007, 03:31 PM
Do HBARs have tighter chambers than a standard AR-15? Will HBARs handle crap ammo like Wolf?

NOPE.

The chamber will not be any different in an HBAR. When you're talking HBAR's versus govt profile/superlights all you are talking about is the diameter and thickness of the outside of the barrel, it has nothing to do with chambers/bores....

As for the Wolf, all of my guns handle wolf fine. I've found that guns of lesser quality have more troubles with steel cased ammo, in general.

DMK
January 31, 2007, 03:46 PM
Do HBARs have tighter chambers than a standard AR-15? Will HBARs handle crap ammo like Wolf?

You can get chambers sized for 5.56 (military spec), .223, or Wylde (in between 5.56 and .223) regardless of external barrel profile.

If you plan on shooting Wolf, you might want to get a 5.56 chamber and chrome lining. Definitely do so if you plan to shoot surplus ammo.

cracked butt
January 31, 2007, 06:34 PM
Yea, but these are the guys putting lead weights in their buttstocks and in their handguards. That's a special situation with special needs. Absolute accuracy overrides everything within the set rules.

Exactly right. I bought my Hbar with the specific purpose of service rifle competition. I have a large ziplock bag full of lead shot in the buttstock adjusted to make the rifle balance perfectly for me. Lead weigth or not, I wouldn't want to carry it around all day- its heavy.

BushyGuy
May 26, 2009, 01:31 PM
reason i bought my Bushmaster Hbar cuz i previously owned a Ruger Ranch Rifle, andf the barrel was so thin, the groups opened up like a barn after a full 30 round magazine, so i went and sold it and bought the HBAR AR i can keep shooting and the groups stay the same...

Matrix187
May 26, 2009, 01:50 PM
I'm going to be getting my 20" HBAR barrel milled down to the A1, or maybe
A2 configuration if it's alot cheaper.

ForneyRider
May 26, 2009, 02:31 PM
I have a 20in bull barrel AR. I recommend it for bench shooting and stationary hunting, very stationary. It is a beast to walk 100 yards to my hunting stand, as it is as heavy as my dad's 700 VLS with 26in bull barrel.

The pencil barreled AR's I've shot, namely Bushmaster, are 1.5MOA. Not what I want in a hunting rifle, but plenty if you want to play CQB guy.

The HBAR Colts, and Rock River and Bushmaster with HBAR-weight barrels are nice for hunting.

SHvar
May 26, 2009, 09:42 PM
The Hbar also has no bayonet lug. The Hbar also comes with either an 8 or 10 rd magazine. In the case of a colt Hbar you cannot use an upper from another rifle on the colt lower.
Also some modification is required to completely separate the upper and lower, the front pin is a pivot pin, not a capture pin.
The Hbar is an accurate rifle, my friends colt Hbar reminds me so much of the M-16A2 I carried around the world. Weighs about the same even with the slight bit more metal under the handguards.
Hbars do not have flash suppressors either.

ChisumTK
December 5, 2009, 10:08 PM
SHvar, i think you are a little confused. HBARs have flash suppressors and bayonet lugs(given the gas block does). You are thinking of Bull Barrels. Examine the link below and you'll see a direct side by side comparison between the HBAR and light weight. Their gas block and flash suppressor are the same.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=272

I prefer the HBAR because your groupings won't open up any after a few mags and the added weight isn't noticeable after you get used to it. And compared to my other AR with a bull barrel, it feels like a pellet gun. If you plan to be kicking in doors and having to hold up your weapon with one hand then by all means, get the light weight. But if you plan to be drilling coyotes at 200 yards like myself and 1911 guy above, then the HBAR is your best bet.

Joe Demko
December 5, 2009, 10:39 PM
I have an AR with a 24 inch heavy barrel and a brake. No doubt many of you would complain it is excessively heavy. I reply that it is a hoot to fire from a rest or bipod because you can observe bullet impact through the scope even during rapid fire. Takes a fair amount of shooting to heat up that much barrel too.
Were I inclined to go shoot prairie dogs, that rifle would be the angel of death to them.

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