[Bonker]

Bonker = 34 year old film major and high school history teacher.

Yet somehow I never saw the movie Patton until this weekend when I rented the DVD.

Wow! Hard to believe it was made in 1969. It's as good as anything our current film makers can put out.

I've always been a HUGE fan of Patton. I wonder why I waited so long to see such a great film!

[Pilgrim]

The History Channel has a program titled "History in the Movies." It compares historical events with their portrayal in the movies. "Patton" was the subject of one program and both historians and people who knew General Patton well said that the movie was fairly accurate as to General Patton's character and mannerisms.

People who knew General Patton well aslo said that George C. Scott did an outstanding job of portraying the General. Scott won Best Actor Award but refused his "Oscar" saying that the Motion Picture awards ceremony was a "Meat Parade."

Pilgrim

[Mike Irwin]

Scott also starred in a subsequent movie called "The Last Days of Patton."

It was done in 1986 as a made-for-TV movie. It was actually pretty good, but not nearly as engaging as Patton.

[Ol' Badger]

NEVER SAW PATTON were have you been man?

Another good Scott film is "RAGE" about a sheep rancher that gets poisoned by the Govt. and his son dies and he blows junk up and shoots folks with a .22 and riding a motorcycle everwhere.

[Ledbetter]

Read Patton's own book, "War As I Knew It."

[Ian Sean]

Patton was great, probably THE greatest general of his generation in the classical sense.

"Anyone in any walk of life who is content with mediocrity is untrue to himself and to American tradition." Classical Patton.

My favorite is probably his "weather prayer" of WW2 Battle of the Bulge fame.

Almighty and most merciful Father, we humbly beseech Thee, of Thy great goodness, to restrain these immoderate rains with which we have had to contend. Grant us fair weather for Battle. Graciously hearken to us as soldiers who call Thee that, armed with Thy power, we may advance from victory to victory, and crush the oppression and wickedness of our enemies, and establish Thy justice among men and nations. Amen.

Probably never again will this country witness or let alone produce a man of this magnitude. At least not out of the current stock of what passes for general officers.

[Bravo11]

Just to make sure you are entirely enlightened to great WWII films you need to see "Battle of the Bulge" and "Midway"(w/ Pres Heston). Oh and on the lighter side--"Kellys Heroes"

[telewinz]

Today, a man like Patton would be thrown out of the Army before he made 1st LT. He could give orders but couldn't follow them, Ike saved his butt from courtsmartial and the end of his career. Being considered one of the best Allied generals doesn't mean much compared the the German Army. An average general might seem great when compared to his below average speers as Patton was and is.

[Ian Sean]

Telewinz, While as a General in the limelight, so to speak Patton "couldn't follow orders" as you say, but as a junior officer his record was quite clean and above average in performance all the way up through the ranks.

Just what order did he not follow? Raise hell?, yes. Did he question superiors decisions when he shouldn't? yes. Was he caught off guard by the press making stupid comments or the famous slapping incident? yes. But please tell me what order he disobeyed, I'm curious.

While compared to the likes of Rundstet, or Kesselring or even Guderian all fantastic German Generals in thier own right, but just that...........German, It is a different subject. You are trying to compare apples to oranges here. Somehow this discussion is to be turned from Patton to the Greatest Generals Ever Discourse?

Face it Patton was one of the best this country ever produced.

By the way, while Ike made the final decision, it was Pattons performance on the battlefield and popularity back home that saved him from being sacked.

Bonker, I found it interesting that it was common for Patton when writing a speech for addressing the troops he would write one for the enlisted men and one for officers.

The enlisted speech would usually be heavy on profanity and wisecracks while the officers speech would be more tame and elegant.

[Blain]

Ike had to protect Patton, eh? Well it was Ike who keept screwing up! Patton warned him not to do certain things and he gave Ike superior plans. Ike would either dissregaurd them totally in favor of Montgomery (who also screwed things up constantly) or make his own errors. Bradly is well known for asing Patton for advice on serveral occasions, then using Patton's advice with great success without acknowledgeing Patton at all!

Patton was the greatest general of WWII, and one of the greatest generals of all time!

[KP95DAO]

Well, for 34 years I have known I should never have a "pearl handled" pistol!!!

[Feanaro]

Patton disobeyed orders that were political for the most part, such as letting Monty(Who was a twit as far as I am concerned. Anyone who will put other men's lives at stake and slow down a war so he can hog a little glory is not worth two dimes) go first into a city. While that is not the sign of a good soldier good officers have been known to "lose" orders or have the radio "malfunction", such as in Black Hawk Down. They had a little "communication problem" which enabled the Army to do what it had to do.

In Patton's case he just ignored the orders.

[George Hill]

Patton, the Original Magnificent Bastard.



Or MB for short.

[Byron Quick]

The German High Command considered him the best general of all allied general officers. They never understood why he did not have command of Overlord.

His public persona was more of an act that many of his detractors want to acknowledge. He was actually quite intellectual.

[Delmar]

I suspect that Patton wasn't in charge of Overlord simply because fighting generals do not often make good politicians. Like it or not, commanders of Allied armies do have to be politicians in order to get the other nation's armies in line-something Patton would not do.
That is certainly not a slap at Patton-probably one of the best logistical organizers of the war and that fact is rarely alluded to him. The fact is, you can't kick the stuffings out of the enemy if you don't have the men and equipment to do it with and place them where they will do the most damage.

[BigG]

...as good as anything our current film makers can put out

Bonker, I have over 400 films I've reviewed on my website and if 1969 seems ancient to you, I would suggest you look into some of the older films. They had things mostly missing from today's films, like acting, a story, good editing, and scoring.

Glad you liked PATTON.

[DamnedDirtyApe]

The Patton Sword ... a part of him that's forgotten. Here's a pic of Lt. Colonel Patton carrying the sword he designed. It was the U.S. Cavalry issue - might still be.

http://www.pattonhq.com/sword/gspsword.gif





Link and info: http://www.pattonhq.com/sword.html

[HankB]

A few little tidbits about "Patton" the movie and "Patton" the man

1. In one of the TV magazines of the time, a reader wrote in to ask why George C. Scott got the Best Actor Oscar for portraying a violent, crude man, (even though he said he'd refuse the award) instead of giving it to Ryan O'Neal for "Love Story." The response? "The Motion Picture Academy decided to give the award to the actor who deserved it, instead of the actor who merely wanted it." :D

2. A friend of my father's served under Patton in Europe. He said that, if anything, the movie made Monty look good.

3. IIRC, a young Patton was an Olympic competitor in Modern Pentathlon. He lost because in the pistol shooting portion of the competition, he put two shots through the same hole . . . and it was scored as a miss.

[w1mnk]

A couple of points about Patton.

My parents attended the same church as Gen. Patton and his wife (she was from Hamilton, MA), St John's Episcopal Church, Beverly Farms, MA.

As late as the 1970's, Patton's yatch "When and If" was moored in Manchester-by-the-Sea's (MA) outer harbor. Of course, it was maintained by his estate. "When the war is over and If I survive".

Patton carried, at various times, a matched pair of Colt SAA's (with IVORY grips!!). A Registered (before model number 27) Smith and Wesson 357 Magnum.

Comparing officers is a lot of fun. Grant vs. Lee; Halsey vs. Kurita; Stuart vs. Buford; TJ Jackson vs. any number of Federal generals; MacArthur vs. Yama????a (or maybe that should be "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell); Nimitz vs. Yamamoto (until May 1943), then Nimitz vs. the entire IJN command; Von Paulus vs. Zhukov, etc.

Maybe we should start a "Military Leaders" forum here?

Ha, I just noticed that part of that Japanese Admiral's name has been replaced by question marks because it is venacular for feces :D

[Hutch]

I greatlly admire the Patton that G. C. Scott portrayed, but there's also the Patton that scotched the M24 heavy tank that COULD have been deployed by the US in western Yurp instead of the M4. The only disadvantage the M24 had was that it used more fuel than the M4. It was better armored, more durable, more reliable, had a more powerful gun, and had better off-road maneuverability. Patton didn't want it because of his concern with fuel availability. As soon as it became clear that the M4 was a road-bound death trap, Patton was overruled, and production began of the M24 in earnest. It was too late for the M24 to make a significant contribution by that time, however.

[Sam Adams]

It would appear that Patton was correct concerning the choice of tank.

He worried about fuel usage, and even with the (relatively) stingy M4 his and other armies ran out of fuel. While they waited for resupply, the Germans were able to rush reinforcements in, thus delaying the end of the war. Example - after the Falaise pocket battle the Germans were completely disorganized and badly bloodied, and there was NOTHING between 3rd Army and the Rhine - can you imagine what a couple of hundred thousand men East of the Rhine in August or September of 1944 would have meant for the conduct of the war, let alone the Cold War? Same thing after the Palatinate battle. The Red Ball Express did wonders, but not enough.

Patton was about speed, not battles of attrition. He witnessed the latter in WW1, and didn't want to bleed his men to death in a more sophisticated repeat. Adoption of the M24 would have slowed our victory, as fuel would have stopped his and other armies sooner ... and the Soviets would (maybe) have stopped at the Rhine instead of the Oder.

[jdkelly]

I'm confused. I thought the M4 Sherman was about 50% heavier, had thicker armor, and twice as much HP then the M24 Chaffee. What I'm I missing here?

I know (I thinkI know) the Sherman was about as good as the MK4 (the MK4 was lower with a better gun), and that the MK5 Panther was much better.

jdkelly

[telewinz]

You are confusing the M24 light tank (replace M5) with the M26 Pershing heavy tank.

Thank God for the movies, now all they need to do is make one about Lucien Truscott, (the 'REAL Patton") who furnished Patton with most of his Headlines. Who needs unbiased books to do their research? The movies are so much more fun and they are known for their inherent accuracy:D

I know the movie said it and its a popular saying but WHO on the German Staff ever said Patton was the best Allied General, no german officer (general grade or otherwise) has ever been documented as having made such a statement, even by Patton's most rabid supporters/authors. It has to be true because the movie said it was.

Who did advance further than any other Allied General during the breakout from Normandy? Be careful, if your Patton history is based on the movie (90% is) you will be wrong.

By the time Patton stepped on the continent, the German army was defeated, the only thing Patton HELPED to decide was whether the Russians advanced to Berlin or Paris.

What did Marshall (and powerful members of Congress)want to do with Patton for his slapping incident.

What was Patton's (our armor expert) documented opinion of armor in 1932 and what was his motivation.

[jdkelly]

Okay, I'll go check out the M26 thanks!

jdkelly

[Bonker]

Lots of great info! Thanks guys!

Here's a great site with all sorts on info on things like the Patton sabre and Patton tank:

http://www.pattonhq.com/homeghq.html

[telewinz]

Hodges went farther than Patton, the difference was Hodges was humble and Patton had PR men working for him.

Marshall detested Patton as a blow-hard. He wanted to fire Patton and refused to defend Patton's actions to angry congressmen who also demanded Patton be fired. Because Marshall was the leader he was, he let the theater commander (IKE) make the decision. Ike (also detested Patton as a person) deferred in part to Bradley who felt he (Bradley) could control Patton. Bradley was promoted over Patton and was his superior. Patton had little to no input in the planning of the D-Day landings. His sole contribution was as a decoy, most germans had long felt Normandy would not be the main invasion site (Hitler thought it would be Normandy)

In 1932 Patton perdicted that armor would amount to nothing, the calvary was in control at that time and their was a "battle between yhe calvary officers and the pro-armor component. George knew which way the wind was blowing. Ike was considered our Armor expert, not Georgie.

[Ledbetter]

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/