[Norton]

We're in the process of packing to move into our first house and we ran out of packing material. So, I ran off to the local Staples to by a roll of that cardboard sheeting that's good for protecting large pictures frames, etc.

Anyway, I'm standing in line while the guy is trying to scan one of the items which of course wasn't entered in the computer. He's doing his best running to the back of the store trying to get the cose and such to work.

Meanwhile, this African-American gentleman (I only bring up his race because it is germane to the rest of the tale, especially since he's the one who made it an issue) is standing at the special little customer service desk trying to get his account straightened out, which had apparently been frozen for some reason. He's talking to the associate at the counter (also African-American) going off about how this is some sort of racist plot. He's saying, "This store is racist, this town is racist......I don't know how white people live with themselves.....they can't pray to the same God I do"....etc, etc, etc.

I'm thinking, "OK, the guy's mad...he'll get over it....we all lose our cool once in awhile"........OK, I'm wrong on that account.

This is when I start to get worried. This is all happening behind my left shoulder so I'm trying to monitor the situation without turning and drawing his attention to me. He approaches this 40-something man their with his 7-9 year old daughter buying arts and crafts supplies.

He says to this man, "You white people don't even go to church...if you do, you don't pray to the same God I do". The man with daughter says he goes to church and the guy curses at him.

Now's when I go into hyper-alert because he comes up behind me spewing his filth and hate trying to bait me into a confrontation. Now, for the record, I'm 6'7" and 230 pounds so I'm no runt. But I gotta tell you, I'm a lover, not a fighter:D

Anyway, I'm going over in my mind the "what if's":

1. What is he directly addresses me?
2. What if he actually goes so far as to get in front of me?
3. What if he touches me?
4. God forbid...what if he has a weapon of some sort?

I had made up my mind that the point of no return was going to be if he touched me. I have "personal space" issues anyway, but I was going to walk away until he put his hand on me. Thank goodness it didn't come to that....

Reflecting upon this, I realize how fast situations can happen now. This was more bothersome to me personally than my "attack cat thread" of a couple months ago. Mostly bothersome because I had already identified the threat and was unarmed and on my own.

Resolution: On those mornings when I just don't feel like hitting the gym, I will. I will not again put myself in the position of feeling like I can't at least use my sheer size as a deterrent to wackos like this. :fire:

Failing the visual deterrent, I want to at least feel that I have the strength to protect myself at some level.

Time for a beer:evil:

[mons meg]

6'7" and 230? Do you sway in the wind? ;) I'm 6'4", and ah, well let's just say I'm better than 300. I'm not fat! I'm just big boned! My mama said so! :D

Seriously, though, I think not reacting to people who want a reaction is the best policy. I probably would have done exactly the same thing.

You probably have a decent reach, and with your height you should definitely get into some Muay Thai/traditional boxing or even Panantukan for those situations where all you might need is a quick crack to some bozo's head.

[TarpleyG]

I have "personal space" issues anyway
Sorry to say, but that ain't gonna justify laying the guy out or shooting him in front of a jury. Sounds like you had ample opportunity to vacate the premises regardless of your pride. Glad it didn't escalate too much for your sake and at least you were aware of what was about to transpire.

Just remember that running away is no crime and is likely to keep you from being charged with one.

GT

[spacemanspiff]

I had made up my mind that the point of no return was going to be if he touched me. I have "personal space" issues anyway, but I was going to walk away until he put his hand on me.
so simply touching you makes you fear for your life? you are willing to use deadly force just because someone violates your 'personal space'? hmmmmm....:scrutiny:

[Devonai]

I think Norton meant that would be the point at which he got involved. I would have been watching this guy, but not have said or done anything except perhaps suggest to the nearest employee that it was time to call the cops. Once he lays a hand on anybody in there, it's time to put yourself into the situation. Force is dealt out as required from there.

[Skunkabilly]

How big was the other guy?

As 5'5", 120lbs (with all my gear on) I can assume that someone twice my size maliciously initiating physical contact wants to seriously harm me.

[Baba Louie]

Norton, norton, norton,

Dude, this is the 21st century... Get with the program. You're in a large nation-wide chain store, some BOZO comes up and starts getting in your face, you back up (retreat) trip, fall down, injuring yourself on a fax machine display or something and... SUE the heck out of the store for allowing this clown to violate your 1st amendment rights (religion or some such thing), name his church group in the lawsuit as well, collect yer dough, pay yer attorney and retire to live the good life in your new paid for home. :D

That's the American way now dude. Should he actually physically touch you, you'll end up getting an even bigger settlement (out of court more than likely) pain, suffering, mental duress, hospital bills, visits to the shrink, etc.

Gravy on the plate. :rolleyes:

But its always good to watch yer six.

Adios

[Mark Tyson]

I would try the silent treatment for a character like this.

If he touches you lightly such as putting a finger on your chest I think you'd be justified in slapping his hand away or something equivilant, but no more.

Juries will recognize restraint when they see it. Use no more force than he uses (or is about to use) on you.

As for martial arts, think about joining boxing gym.

So what happened, anyway? Did the guy just get up and leave?

[SRYnidan]

It is sometines scarry to read some of these posts or talk to shooters because so many think that the answer is their gun (the gun is a little like a fire exstinguisher, when you need one you need one right now, but the rest of the time it is just in the way).

The comment from Mons Meg on not giving the guy something to feed on was on target. Ones response must be measured to the threat and options other than a gun should be available to all but the most physically feeble.

Idealy the store should deal with such persons not the patrons (and should be led this way if need be) that having been said letting someone lay hands on you for almost any reason is a bad plan looking to get worse. However you should have a plan to deal with this that falls well short of threatening more less using deadly force. (Jujitsu, pepper spray, lite shoes Etc.

[Standing Wolf]

I had made up my mind that the point of no return was going to be if he touched me. I have "personal space" issues anyway, but I was going to walk away until he put his hand on me.

I have to respect that. I believe I'd have walked out of the store by that point, but sincerely believe no one should ever be forced to put up with demented people's behavior. If I'd stuck around—not likely—I'd have been inclined to ask politely, "Are you sure you want to pick a fight with a guy who's carrying a .357 magnum?"

[Norton]

Just to clarify-

Tarpley and SpaceMan-here in the great state of MD, no chance of me using deadly force as far as a firearm goes.....but come to think of it, I did have a bean burrito for dinner and that in itself could be a force to reckon with if provoked:D

I suppose I mostly related this little scenario to demonstrate that we can encounter a situation under even the most innocuous of circumstances. Trouble most often doesn't announce itself......situations evolve and pretty soon there is the possibility of a confrontation.

Just further clarification - my intent all along was just to get the heck out of the store and let this guy go on his merry way. However, knowing that things don't always go as planned it's incumbent upon us to think a couple of steps ahead (the "what ifs" that I alluded to earlier). Fortunately, I didn't have to go any further than my initial plan, which was to keep my big mouth shut and head for the door.

For all...just to emphasize, I'm not chest thumping here about "my tactical threat sensor" or some such pulp fiction commando stuff......I'm a public school teacher and let me tell you, verbal assaults aren't anything new. I'm just a regular guy (OK a really big regular guy) going about his business who had some wacko spewing crazy junk at him. Could it have it gotten worse? yup....am I glad that it didn't get worse? Darn straight......

[Norton]

A little mea culpa here....as I read my original post I could see where there was room for interpretation as to what I meant by "point of no return". Keep forgetting that not everyone gets to enjoy the great state of Maryland where no one except the bad guys have firearms.

By "point of no return", what I meant was that his putting his hands on me would have had to be the point where I could no longer ignore him or continue to simply assume he had no intent towards me personally.

Believe me, I'm the proverbial "big teddy bear" in the sense that I hate fights. The beautiful thing about being a size 50 extra-long is that most people simply look for someone else to bother.:D

[tetchaje1]

Reflecting upon this, I realize how fast situations can happen now. This was more bothersome to me personally than my "attack cat thread" of a couple months ago. Mostly bothersome because I had already identified the threat and was unarmed and on my own.


Did everybody who is criticizing, about shooting somebody for touching him, miss that he said he was unarmed at the time? :scrutiny:

Read a bit more carefully, folks.

[spacemanspiff]

hey now! just because i was home skooled doesnt mean i aknt red or rite just like the other kids!

my bad....

[Horsesense]

When confronted by a psycho, spouting conspiracy theories etc, agree with him.

"Your right! We ant gonna let em get away with this. You stay right and I'm gona go call the ACLU"

[Feanaro]

I too have space issues. Strangers who intentionally touch me have their hand quickly removed and anyone who "gets in my face" will recieve the meanest look I can come up with and verbal Hell. But one cannot carry that too far. Force is reserved for other times.

BTW, I have been told there is a quality in my eyes when I become angry that makes people afraid. Or maybe it's the fact that I'm a large, heavy set man with big arms and a scowl. Ahh, another gift from God. ;)

[Carlos Cabeza]

My personal space is defined as arms length circumference around my body. Inside that and..........well, you understand. When does an individual violate my right to my space ? "In my face"Touching noses, while screaming bigoted filth will get you an uppercut to the chin and I then will make a hasty retreat, avoiding further confrontation. Being polite can only go so far, avoiding eye contact the same, and being a humble soul can help you to avoid most conflicts. but disrupting my routine while my child is watching, and with a scared look in his eyes. I'm pulling out my can of spinach !

[Norton]

Carlos,

The reason that I got particularly concerned was that when he came over towards me, he was also saying something to the effect of "yeah, these white people....they act all afraid and say excuse me and stuff when you bump into them....they scared of us black folk"

I was concerned that as he was saying this he was going to try and use me for an example of what happens when he bumps into someone. He was going to get a different result than he expected, I'm afraid......

[Carlos Cabeza]

Learning when to apply a dose of whoopass is an art. I have to practice self control myself. Sure enough, some people will never learn regardless of skin color. I'm sure you could have offered to compensate him for his lack of account management skills that "you" learned in college, or let him belittle you to make himself feel better........................................:evil: it's a judgement call.;)

[JohnK]

If I'd stuck around—not likely—I'd have been inclined to ask politely, "Are you sure you want to pick a fight with a guy who's carrying a .357 magnum?"

In many areas that would get you arrested for threatening him with deadly force.

It sounds like he was the biggest racist in the store that day, not that calling him on it would have done anything but escalate the problem.

[Don Gwinn]

If you slap his hand away, you're probably agreeing to a fistfight in short order. Don't do it without watching for the other hand to come for your nose. It's instinctive for a lot of people even if they only "meant to" poke you in the chest and give you some guff.

If you're that big and he's not so big, throw him as hard and as far as you can as soon as you can after the commencement of hostilities. Then take off.