[Drizzt]

The Associated Press State & Local Wire

June 2, 2003, Monday, BC cycle

4:00 AM Eastern Time

SECTION: State and Regional

LENGTH: 180 words

HEADLINE: Denver police buying large-bore sniper rifle

DATELINE: DENVER

BODY:
Police are buying a super-accurate, large-bore sniper rifle capable of hitting someone well over half a mile away.

The .50-caliber Robar BMG rifle is being purchased in response to heightened security threats at Denver International Airport and larger weapons on city streets.

"We're mostly concerned about the airport," said Deputy Chief Dave Abrams. "We've got 54 square miles out there without a lot of cover."

Abrams said large-bore rifles are also available to criminals.

"You can buy them at gun shops," he said. "So we're trying not to be outgunned."

The $8,000 rifle, which includes a scope, can hit a target with high precision from 1,000 yards and reach targets more than 2,000 yards away with less accuracy, police said.

"If we can see the guy, we can hit him," Abrams said.

Chief Gerry Whitman said the rifle, scheduled to arrive this summer, would be paid for by a federal grant at no cost to the city.

He said the department now uses half a dozen .223-caliber and .308-caliber sniper rifles, which are accurate up to about 400 yards.

[El Tejon]

*Ahem* Red members, are you hearing this?:D

Looky there. More wasteful governmental spending when the Denver government wants you disarmed. Ain't payback a lot of fun? Go get them.:D

[Standing Wolf]

Chief Gerry Whitman said the rifle, scheduled to arrive this summer, would be paid for by a federal grant at no cost to the city.

Yippee! Free money!

Say, isn't this the same city of Denver that's having such a hissing fit about ordinary law-abiding American citizens keeping and bearing arms?

[CZ-75]

What's a .50 BMG going to do for them? It can't cover all 54 sq. miles. :rolleyes:

I suggest a helicopter gunship instead. :neener:

[MJRW]

what kind of attack would this be good for? If they attack with a building?

[rock jock]

Where do I go to apply for a 50 BMG grant? Its better than free cheese.

[Robert inOregon]

Abrams said large-bore rifles are also available to criminals.

"You can buy them at gun shops," he said. "So we're trying not to be outgunned."


:scrutiny:

[Black Dragon]

Lets see, a .308 only accurate to about 400 yards.... I'm sure there are a lot of people that go to Camp Perry High Power Matches that would love to hear that one. Heck a friend of mine has a .22lr that he can put 10 shots in the size of a quater at 200 yards. His rifle only cost him $2500.

[foghornl]

Same as I was thinking.....Put some of the Camp Perry shooters on the firing line, and see if they miss more than hit @ 400 Yds.

Or, lets put some Denver PD snipers on the 500 Yd line, vs the Camp Perry Guys @ 500, equipped with the same rifles. Or better yet, make eveybody shoot the same rifle for score.

Hey, Chief Wiggum...ahhhhh Whitman...When was the last time you shot for qualification? Ever "fire a shot in anger"? ? ?


What a maroon.

[Mark Tyson]

I don't see anything wrong with the police owning a .50 caliber, as long as they're trained and use it only when the situation calls for it. I don't see anything wrong with civilians owning them either.

[Monte Harrison]

Please post the URL to the original story. The reporter is in need of some FEEDBACK.

[popeye]

Abrams said large-bore rifles are also available to criminals.

"You can buy them at gun shops," he said. "So we're trying not to be outgunned."

This statement puzzles me. Ain't there some kinda NICs thing?
The only criminals I've heard of using .50's are in countries like Iraq, etc.. I live close to Chicago but across the iron curtain in Indiana (thank God) and I've never heard of anyone shot with a .50. I'm 56 so that's thinkin back awhile.

If they keep playin up the evil .50, Joe Gangster is gonna be wantin one of those, just to be first in the hood.

[general]

They didn't get the whole story...
Check out what the Denver Post had on this...
Denver Post Online (http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~1429540,00.html)
Article Published: Monday, June 02, 2003 - 12:00:00 AM MST

Police getting high-powered sniper rifle
Highly accurate weapon sought for terror threats
By Mike McPhee, Denver Post Staff Writer
Responding to heightened security threats as well as larger weapons on the street, the Denver Police Department is purchasing a super-accurate, large-bore sniper rifle capable of hitting a human well over half a mile away.

The weapon is a .50-caliber Robar BMG rifle, which can accurately send a half-inch-thick bullet 1,000 yards into a target, police said. The weapon can actually shoot more than 2,000 yards but with greatly reduced accuracy. A mile is 1,760 yards.

Chief Gerry Whitman gave an example of its accuracy. "If we put this up on the helipad of the police headquarters, we could cap a guy on the top of The Denver Post building," he said. The trajectory would carry the bullet over the City and County Building, over Civic Center past Colfax and Broadway up above the 21st floor of the Post building.

Deputy Chief Dave Abrams, one of the department's weapons experts, didn't want to reveal the optical power of the weapon's scope, but said, "If we can see the guy, we can hit him."

"We're mostly concerned about the airport," Abrams said. "We've got 54 square miles out there without a lot of cover. Depending on conditions and the shooter's ability, we can hit something a mile away."

The rifle, complete with a scope, carrying case and 500 rounds of special ammunition at $5 a piece, costs roughly $8,000. However, it will be paid for out of federal block grant funds with no cost to the city, Whitman said.

The weapon is due to arrive in Denver this summer, Whitman said.

The department now uses half a dozen .223-caliber and .308-caliber sniper rifles which are accurate up to about 400 yards, he said.

Increased terrorist activity led the department to purchase the weapon. But Abrams said another concern was to have the same firepower as the "bad guys," many of whom now have similar .50-caliber weapons. In 1995, Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy Tim Mossbrucker was gunned down outside an Albertsons store with a .50-caliber weapon.

"You can buy them at gun shops," Abrams said. "So we're trying not to be outgunned. We need to match the armament we're going against."
Chief Gerry Whitman gave an example of its accuracy. "If we put this up on the helipad of the police headquarters, we could cap a guy on the top of The Denver Post building," he said. Alert!! If your Chief Of Police uses the word "cap"... You might be in trouble.... What is this guy thinking?:what:
Besides... I thought even the NATO countries said not to use this caliber against personnel.???

[general]

In 1995, Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy Tim Mossbrucker was gunned down outside an Albertsons store with a .50-caliber weapon. Ok- I researched this online and all I came up with was this...http://www.angelfire.com/co3/projectsafeguard/FRCmantext.txt
Denver Metro Domestic Violence Fatality Review Committee
...........edited ..........
On a quiet Friday morning in April of 1995, Terry’s estranged husband walked into the grocery store where she had just arrived for work. Armed with a 9mm handgun, an assault rifle and a bolt- action rifle, he opened fire, fatally injuring Terry and wounding another employee. Store manager Dan Suazo tried to pull Terry to safety, only to be killed by Petrosky’s bullets in the process. Having found his intended target, Albert Petrosky backed out of the store, randomly spraying bullets. He returned to his vehicle, where he proceeded to set up a .30 SKS semi-automatic rifle on a tripod. His target would now be the first officer responding to the scene. Sergeant Timothy Mossbrucker had barely pulled into the parking lot before Petrosky riddled the patrol car with bullets, killing the Sergeant before he could even stop his patrol car, before he had even unholstered his gun.
:confused: So .. was he killed with a .50 BMG?

[Kharn]

Why does Denver PD need to shoot down airliners? Thats the only activity Sarah Brady says .50s are used for. :rolleyes:

Kharn

[Erik]

"So .. was he killed with a .50 BMG?"

Iirc : Apparently the deputy took cover behind his vehicle. The BG walked a few .50BMG rounds down the length of the car, one of which killed the deputy.

---
A .50 bmg rifle brings the entirety of the DIA runway system well into the range of a stationary sniper perched atop... well, you get the idea.. The same cannot be said of "lesser" rifles.

[spartacus2002]

The issue is not the police owning something that is also legal for us to own.

The issue is the police focusing so intensely on their need and ability to kill. When they transform from peace officers to law enforcement officers, liberty dies.

[gun-fucious]

So, will Denver's Liability insuance allow an officer to take more than a 100 yard shot?

[Erik]

Peace officers are synonymous with law enforcement officers.

Though I'd be interested in hearing the symantics behind assertions that they are not. (No, really.)

[spartacus2002]

They are not legal terms, more concepts.

A peace officer is primarily concerned with keeping the peace in his community on behalf of the citizens.

A law enforcement officer is tasked with enforcing the rules and policies of centralized government against the citizens.

I know somebody will pipe up with "all police enforce rules and laws AGAINST those who break them!" But, there is a difference between on the one hand stopping those who break generally known and accepted customs and laws, and on the other hand enforcing regulations drafted by faceless, nameless bureaucrats who are politically unaccountable.

I say again: When the police stop serving the community, and begin perceiving themselves as the masters, liberty dies.

[Billll]

The Denver cop that was killed was killed with the SKS. The .50 was in the perps van, unfired.
Headline:
"Cop killed by man with .50 cal"
It would also be correct to say:
"Cop killed by man with belly button"

DIA is 64 square miles. Denver bought a lot of outlying farmland to keep down noise complaints. I'd say about 62 sq miles of that are open prairie, 1 sq mile of roads and outlying support buildings, including a few hotels, where the guests can complain about the noise, and 1 sq mile of airport, including parking.
Heck, go to mapquest, and ask for an ariel photo of the place.

The cops don't need a .50 to patrol the place, they just got a chance to buy a fun, new toy with someone elses money. I wish I could.

[Erik]

Peace officers/LEOs certainly do not perceive themselves as masters of anything. They are tasked by others, funded by others, held accountable to others, etc, etc, etc. "Protect and to serve" is the veritable mantra. "The People" is who is being served and protected.

Colorado defines "peace officers," by the way. The definitions all lead back to "enforcing the laws," being "assigned to a criminal enforcement function," "investigating," "inspecting," etc. I believe you'll find much of the same elsewhere.

But enough of that.

Someone else pointed out that the Denver PD is purchasing an item each and every one of use may legally obtain. So what's the big deal? I could see a fuss being created about something we cannot buy. But something we can?

If a thread was posted asking"what would you gaurd your 62 sq mile property with?" I'd bet that several THR members would chime in with a .50BMG rifle of some sort.

[CZ-75]

"The People" is who is being served and protected.

The USSR allegedly served its people too, only some were better served than others.

The "People" sounds nice as an egalitarian ideal, but seldom has any basis in actual fact. "Special Interest" usually has wider applicability when substituted for the "People."


I could see a fuss being created about something we cannot buy. But something we can?

I think folks are POed since Denver is rabidly anti-2nd and think they are talking out their @$$. Purchasing a new toy while stepping on toes of law-abiding gun owners doesn't win support for what is, in all likelihood, a BS purchase that has no real use.

If a thread was posted asking"what would you gaurd your 62 sq mile property with?" I'd bet that several THR members would chime in with a .50BMG rifle of some sort.

Claymores. :evil:

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Chief Gerry Whitman gave an example of its accuracy. "If we put this up on the helipad of the police headquarters, we could cap a guy on the top of The Denver Post building," he said.

Any relation to Charles David Whitman of Austin, Texas?

Maybe I need more duct tape for my tinfoil hat.


Regards,
Rabbit.

[general]

The Denver cop that was killed was killed with the SKS. The .50 was in the perps van, unfired. Thanks Billll.... that was the info I was hoping to find out - any link or verifing info in this? I'd appreciate it. I just don't cotton to it when the "NEWS"paper prints falsehoods and lies. I will call them on it. Using the death of an LEO to further the liberal gun ban agenda is low. (Anytime they lie about guns - they are doing it- propagandizing the issue.)

[JeepDriver]

A 308 only good to 400 yards?

I think they need some better snipers.