National ID Card


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xd45gaper
February 4, 2007, 10:51 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070204/ap_on_re_us/real_id

what do you guys think about this? The laws supporters argWASHINGTON - A revolt against a national driver's license, begun in Maine last month, is quickly spreading to other states.


The Maine Legislature on Jan. 26 overwhelmingly passed a resolution objecting to the Real ID Act of 2005. The federal law sets a national standard for driver's licenses and requires states to link their record-keeping systems to national databases.

Within a week of Maine's action, lawmakers in Georgia, Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, Vermont and Washington state also balked at Real ID. They are expected soon to pass laws or adopt resolutions declining to participate in the federal identification network.

"It's the whole privacy thing," said Matt Sundeen, a transportation analyst for the National Conference of State Legislatures. "A lot of legislators are concerned about privacy issues and the cost. It's an estimated $11 billion implementation cost."

The law's supporters say it is needed to prevent terrorists and illegal immigrants from getting fake identification cards.

States will have to comply by May 2008. If they do not, driver's licenses that fall short of Real ID's standards cannot be used to board an airplane or enter a federal building or open some bank accounts.

About a dozen states have active legislation against Real ID, including Arizona, Georgia, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Missouri, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Utah and Wyoming.

Missouri state Rep. James Guest, a Republican, formed a coalition of lawmakers from 34 states to file bills that oppose or protest Real ID.

Though most states oppose the law, some such as Indiana and Maryland are looking to comply with Real ID, Sundeen said.

The issue may be moot for states if Congress takes action
ument is weak.

i can see the Federal Goverment saying comply or no federal assistance $$

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limbaughfan
February 4, 2007, 10:59 AM
im glad to see the states are doing something about it

Autolycus
February 4, 2007, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by xd45gaper:

i can see the Federal Goverment saying comply or no federal assistance $$

Well the states could just tell the government that the citizens of their state will not be paying any federal taxes.:evil:

WildeKurt
February 4, 2007, 01:47 PM
If the states drivers license doesn't meet up to federal muster, holders will not be able to use it for identification where required by the feds, airports for example. Those people will probably be required to use a passport to fly inside this countries borders. Interesting really.

xd45gaper
February 4, 2007, 06:25 PM
i find it a little ludacris that you would have to have one. I dont see how it will keep terrorists and illegale immigrants from obtaining one? if they want one bad enough they will get one.

isnt this the land of the free why do i need a national identification card (which is basically what it is anyways but drivers license sounds better) to enter federal buildings that are paid for by my taxes or board an airplane that i purchase a ticket for...

this to keep terroists at bay **** is getting a little far fetched.

ctdonath
February 4, 2007, 07:10 PM
4th Amendment violation, pure and simple.

If it were merely a biometric link between physical being and a name, fine (maybe, I'm not even sure about that).

Unfortunately, it links so much unrelated information together that it really does create a "security of one's papers" issue. If I'm showing ID to get on a plane, whoever's looking at it doesn't need to know my federal retirement plan number, whether I need glasses to drive, or a host of other private tidbits that are either immediately available via the ID or a short data request away.

IDs should be limited to the narrow purpose for which they were issued.

And they don't do squat for national security. They're too easy to get, copy, or avoid. The 9/11 hijackers had a bunch of absolutely legal IDs. I've watched multiple people use the very same ID card within seconds of each other. Forgeries, duplicates are not particularly difficult. They depend entirely on cooperation; if the person checking doesn't follow thru, the ID doesn't work. Identity theft can produce perfectly legit paperwork. And should the whole ID system be used perfectly without flaw, the perp just does something else (like shoot down the plane instead of fly it into the ground).

It's not about securing YOU. It's about securing bureaucracies.

Good for Maine telling the feds to stuff it.

TallPine
February 4, 2007, 07:37 PM
Will be interesting ... how are they going to get jurors for federal trials in Montana if they won't let people in the courthouse :confused:

Heck, I don't want to fly or go into federal buildings anyway :p Although I think I got permanently banned from federal jury duty :D

Derby FALs
February 4, 2007, 08:40 PM
"Molon Labe" coming to life. :D

Zedicus
February 4, 2007, 08:57 PM
Looks to me as if the general Population have begun to wake up and smell the coffee, and are starting to say.

"Hey! Enough of this Bull!"

Least I hope that is what is happening.

SoCalShooter
February 4, 2007, 09:03 PM
The states that remember what states rights and states powers are seem to be doing the correct thing by blocking the .gov on this. My state however has complied like good little brown shirts. I do not think this country needs national ID's we've been around for 200+ years without them and its a real infraction on freedom and liberty to me. Why you ask? Because the .gov does not need to know more than my tax info and thats it.

gbran
February 4, 2007, 09:12 PM
What about buying guns and filling out the fed paperwork? Will you be able to buy without the Real ID?

Zedicus
February 4, 2007, 09:15 PM
What about buying guns and filling out the fed paperwork? Will you be able to buy without the Real ID?

If RealID is allowed to go ahead, you wont be able to buy "Anything" without it.
Same with the British Equivalent.

SoCalShooter
February 4, 2007, 09:25 PM
If RealID is allowed to go ahead, you wont be able to buy "Anything" without it.
Same with the British Equivalent.


If that happens I say we all take over canada, kick out the canadians that dont want us and create a new country.

Thin Black Line
February 4, 2007, 10:38 PM
If the states drivers license doesn't meet up to federal muster, holders will not be able to use it for identification where required by the feds, airports for example. Those people will probably be required to use a passport to fly inside this countries borders. Interesting really.

This is true. Kind of ironic that we're getting to the point of internal travel
documents in this country. This is the kind of thing we were warned
about as kids that only the big bad soviet boogeymen did in their
country.

BTW, you will also need that passport if you plan on visiting Canada or Mexico
by car next year. That's right, even your federal compliant RFID/biometric
state drivers license will not be enough in 2008 to get you back inside.

What was that I just heard?.....An iron curtain being slowly pulled across the
land?......What comes after that? Some more gun control laws? Nah! Can't
happen here!

steelhead
February 4, 2007, 10:42 PM
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. by James Madison

inros
February 5, 2007, 12:49 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1263677258215075609&hl=en

MattC
February 5, 2007, 01:22 AM
I encourage you to contact your own legislators on the topic. Here is something I sent to my state congressman and senator:

Dear Senator Risser,

I am excited to contact you in regards to the Maine legislature’s decision to not comply with and demand a repeal of the “Real ID Act.” This invasive act does not coincide with the American ethos and has threatening consequences, especially in further eroding the states’ rights to govern their own citizens. Please, and to emphasize, please do not blind yourself with the bandages of the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001. The fear of that one act has alarmingly led to a more fearful and disastrous reaction: the smiting of inherent individual rights that the founders of the United States of America tried to protect from Government in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Please, work within the Wisconsin legislature to rebuke compliance with this so-called “Real ID Act” similar to Maine’s courageous act.

I trust you to protect the rights of your constituents.

Sincerely,
xx

Limeyfellow
February 5, 2007, 02:17 AM
The REAL ID cards are terrible ideas brought to us by everyones favourite nutjob James Sensenbrenner.

I have yet to understand why they need people's religion on it, employment, blood type and a bunch of other information. You might as well get people to sew stars of davids and pink triangles on their clothing the way its done. Then the people who keep the records and do the checks is a private company who could easily go out and sell everyones information to the highest bidder.

Of course it also includes a chip with all your information on that can be accessed by anyone with a reader from a fair distance away. There goes all your information right there.

http://www.unrealid.com/_img/fjs-id.jpg

Thats what they look like.

http://www.unrealid.com/ is an interesting site about the card.

Logan5
February 5, 2007, 02:44 AM
Well, it's incredibly boring, but at http://www.nga.org/Files/pdf/0609REALID.pdf they estimate it'll cost the States Eleven Billion Dollars for the first five years. And for eleven billion dollars one could buy one hell of a lot of magic beans instead, actually so many magic beans that you're bound to get a combination of magic beans that will make all problems disappear.

ilbob
February 5, 2007, 07:16 AM
It would be nice if any of these gov schemes actually worked, but the plain fact is that very few ever have, at least in the way they claimed was intended.

I have no doubt that it will be an inconvenience to every one to comply, and an inconvenience to terrorists to get around it.

Time for a revolt at the ballot box.

Thin Black Line
February 5, 2007, 09:11 AM
they estimate it'll cost the States Eleven Billion Dollars for the first five years.

Pffft! What's $11 bill when we're paying $750 bill for something else we were
told would only cost $100 bill. Hey, it's only money, it's for a good cause,
and the gov't can just print more of it. :p

magnumcarry
February 5, 2007, 09:50 AM
Is the numbers 666 anywhere on the card?? or are they in code?? sounds like the mark of the beast, might want to read the last book of the bible.

cap811
February 5, 2007, 09:58 AM
Hitler and Stalin used them and look how well it went for them.:cuss:

k_dawg
February 5, 2007, 10:05 AM
Well, *IF* this goes thru.. [ and i hope not, but afraid it probably will ], we should AT LEAST be pushing for the yang to this ying: the Real ID includes reciprocity for CWP, in ALL states, and in ALL cities. That's right, including NYC/Chicago/etc.

Now, my own personal ID is already in all the government computers, due to employment and security clearances. And in reality, they would not be pushing this if certain states were not giving photo ID's to criminal immigrants. :-/

highlander 5
February 5, 2007, 10:09 AM
If they can make a national ID card then the Feds can make a national LTC .
I believe Ma has said the same as Me or is going to in the near future.

hagar
February 5, 2007, 10:15 AM
If that happens I say we all take over canada, kick out the canadians that dont want us and create a new country.

No,no,no!!! Take over mexico, kick out the mexicans even if they want us and create a new country.:D

walking arsenal
February 5, 2007, 10:44 AM
might want to read the last book of the bible.

When i first started reading about this national ID card that was the first thing that popped into my head as well.

romma
February 5, 2007, 11:06 AM
The eye on top of the pyramid is certainly a fitting touch! :barf:

Thin Black Line
February 5, 2007, 01:14 PM
LOL, I think the "example" ID is a bit of a gag.

When i first started reading about this national ID card that was the first thing that popped into my head as well.

Pffft. Don't worry about the card, worry about the chipless RFID ink, yes ink, tattoo.


http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=196802844

walking arsenal
February 5, 2007, 02:14 PM
This part gives me the willies


The ink also could be used to track and rescue soldiers, Pydynowski said.

"It could help identify friends or foes, prevent friendly fire, and help save soldiers' lives," he said. "It's a very scary proposition when you're dealing with humans, but with military personnel, we're talking about saving soldiers' lives and it may be something worthwhile."

Which easily translates into

"It could help identify people in accidents, and help save lives," he said. "It's a very scary proposition when you're dealing with humans, but with medical patients, we're talking about saving someones life and it may be something worthwhile."


Heeby heeby jeebies


I'm going to go see if i have any tinfoil left.

Autolycus
February 5, 2007, 02:49 PM
I could invoke Goodwins law but I wont.

I dont think I will be getting any marks on my body at this point. I figure that I would rather suffer a whole lot of inconveniences than to be tracked even further by the government. However if it will save lives ...just kidding.:neener:

Thin Black Line
February 5, 2007, 05:30 PM
Heeby heeby jeebies

I'm going to go see if i have any tinfoil left.

Watch this first:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=icAzyx8EsKU

Diamondback6
February 5, 2007, 10:48 PM
Well, from what I've read, a tinfoil hat acts like a combined antenna/reflector...

You'd be better off turning your house into a giant Faraday cage.

beretta9
February 5, 2007, 11:33 PM
Sounds to me like the Gov. is just trying to push through a national ID card, they are just adding the driver's license and whatever else to make it easier for the sheeple to swallow.

2TransAms
February 6, 2007, 12:21 AM
Well the states could just tell the government that the citizens of their state will not be paying any federal taxes. Yeah, Illinois will jump right on that.

It would make my business paperwork easier though.

GRIZ22
February 6, 2007, 07:19 AM
Quote:

whoever's looking at it doesn't need to know my federal retirement plan number

Many states, including GA, have had your Social Security number linked to your driver's license for years. Some states actually use your SSN for your DL number. Colleges have used SSns for years as student numbers and posy grades by SSN. Health insurance, criminal records, bank accounts and a zillion other things are also tracked by SSN. Like it or not it already has become your nayional ID number and a lot would have to be done to reverse it.

xd45gaper
February 6, 2007, 09:18 AM
i first herd about the National ID Card on the Freedom to Fasicsm Movie

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198

its pretty long very interesting, i dont know how much of it is true and how much is fabricated. but it does make you think and take a look at the goverment we have now and how its not supposed to be like it is :cuss:

Sounds to me like the Gov. is just trying to push through a national ID card, they are just adding the driver's license and whatever else to make it easier for the sheeple to swallow.

EXACTLY! they know they cant just say ok everyone is going to have to get a new ID card that tells all your personal information on it. so the think tanks went ahead and said why dont we make it a National "DRIVERS LICENSE" that way no one will really care. because i mean wouldnt that be convienit if all the DMV's where linked to one system!

and this is the best part! it will keep terroists and illegale aliens from entering the country.

Whats next Check Points?:cuss:

ilbob
February 9, 2007, 01:04 PM
I dont think I will be getting any marks on my body at this point.

It will be voluntary at first, then it will gradually become more and more difficult to do any of your daily activities without the tattoo. Eventually, the few holdouts will be picked up by the tattoo police and forcibly inked, for their own good.

davhina
February 9, 2007, 07:02 PM
Is the numbers 666 anywhere on the card??
My first thought!
This is definately scary!:what:

kludge
February 9, 2007, 07:13 PM
Whats next Check Points?

you mean like airports?

Autolycus
February 9, 2007, 07:18 PM
Well people are being conditioned to checkpoints. Down in the Southwest I believe they have them where they search for illegal immigrants being a prime example. DUI and safety checkpoints.

People will just accept it because it allows them to feel safe. They dont have to worry about the bad guys and the knowledge that the government cannot take care of them. As long as they feel safe they will continue to accept these kind of infringements.

Libertyteeth
February 10, 2007, 01:41 AM
Here's a good article from the Missoula Independent on Montana's fight against Real ID.

Just say no

Link: *http://www.missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=6277

by Jessie McQuillan
*
Montana is one of more than 30 states where legislators and citizens aren't going along-happily or otherwise-with an unfunded federal mandate that aims to standardize driver's licenses nationally.

Montana fights federal Real ID

An unfunded federal mandate that seeks to create de facto national identity cards has spurred Montana to the forefront of rapidly mounting nationwide opposition. On Thursday, Feb. 1, the Montana House of Representatives unanimously approved two bills that signal the state's refusal to go along with the 2005 Real ID Act. A bill introduced by Rep. Brady Wiseman, D-Bozeman, directs state government not to implement Real ID, while another by Rep. Diane Rice, R-Harrison, takes the opposition one step further by "nullifying" the law in Montana. Gov. Brian Schweitzer and the Montana attorney general's office both have pledged their support, though neither bill has yet been considered by Montana's Senate.

"The feeling is so strong that we don't need to jawbone about this," says Wiseman of the bills' thus-far unanimous approval. "Our right to be left alone is being chipped away and we've drawn the line here in Montana." ...

xd9fan
February 10, 2007, 10:38 AM
Well the states could just tell the government that the citizens of their state will not be paying any federal taxes.

I will die and go to heaven if I EVER see this happen in my lifetime......

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