[ArchAngelCD]

Please don't suggest a different caliber.
Please answer the question as asked.
Please explain your choice if you have the time.
Please don't misunderstand my asking you to answer the question as asked as being nasty. Far too many time someone asks about one thing and is told to do another. LOL

If you are going to shoot a .22LR round out of a 2.4" barrel handgun which .22LR round would be more effective as a man stopper? I really don't know if heavier is more effective in such a small bullet or an even smaller bullet traveling faster is more effective.

[hexidismal]

hmm, I do own a .22 handgun, in the form of a Beretta Neos.. but you know, I've never even considered it. I wouldn't even think to buy any other ammo then the cheapest target stuff for it. I suppose that's because I would simply NOT use a .22 in a defensive situation, if there were any possible way to avoid it. I'm not trying to troll the topic, and I'm definitely not trying to start up a "its not the caliber, it's where you place it" kind of thing. The simple fact is I have a good deal of training, both in martial arts and with firearms, and I personally would absolutely rely on martial technique and/or a bladed weapon long before I would even make the effort to draw and aim a .22lr firearm against an assailant.

EDIT: By the way , just to play along though, I actually voted for choice #1. In a quick crunch of the numbers the 30g bullet at 1750fps, assuming those numbers were true and perfect(unlikely), would actually give the highest energy by area ratio. On second thought though, while that might be true, the 60gr at 950 would be about 2/3 as heavy as the average .380 round and traveling at very similar velocities. Tough call really.

[ArchAngelCD]

hexidismal,
I know what you're saying about using a .22 for SD. The gun I'm talking about is a Derringer w/2.4" barrel. It isn't intended for primary SD use but when you are in swim trunks and nothing else, that's about all you can carry!! LOL

I don't have one but someone I know does. He asked me the question I posted and I knew I could get the answer here.

[hexidismal]

Ah, in that case then, I would have to say the heavier slower bullet is the way to go. A .22 with that length barrel cant possibly capitalize on a cartridges velocity potential.

[Fn-P9]

Is 1700 some odd FPS attainable in a hand gun? Barrel lenth seems too short for those speeds and a .22. I chose 950 fps for that reason. I would also say If one could acheive these high velocities, that they would penetrate farther. Like the fisrt poster said. what energy is highest.

[ArchAngelCD]

The velocities posted are through a rifle. I don't know how much lees you get in a short barrel but I'm sure you lose a lot.

[mscott]

That 60gr bullet would not likely stabilize in typical .22 rifling, so your penetration would suck.

[El Tejon]

Does it matter? The only time I could foresee using a .22 in self-defense the weapon would be pressed up against the threat.

[Will5A1]

I'm thinking, like El Tejon, it won't matter, those derringers are at best point blank weapons.

[Lonestar]

Definately if your going with a Hollowpoint CCI stingers are the way to go. Here is some GoldenLoki Gel test with a Taurus PT22 ( http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/22lr/gel22lr.htm ) If your going with a solid I would go with a whatever 30 to 40gr High Velocity round works best (reliability) in the weapon.

The simple fact is I have a good deal of training, both in martial arts and with firearms, and I personally would absolutely rely on martial technique and/or a bladed weapon long before I would even make the effort to draw and aim a .22lr firearm against an assailant.

:scrutiny: Well that is just silly. I don't care how much training you have, your better off plugging someone with a 6 or 7 rounds of .22 from a Neo then trying to take someone out with a Knife and Karate. A .22 will kill, it is just not the best choice out of the other firearm calibers out there. NEVER BRING A KNIFE TO A GUN FIGHT, YOU WILL LOSE.

[hexidismal]

Respectfully Lonestar, I couldn't disagree with you more. I could respond with an array of reasoning and examples, both scientific and personal. It's not relevant to this thread though. I don't want to steal it away from the point at hand.

[Lonestar]

Hex...That's cool, but just to warn you when I was a cop, out of the dozen or so dead shooting victims I seen, about 1/4 died from a .22 round. On the other hand I studied Tae Kwon Do for a year and various Self Defense courses, and when I was in the best shape of my life I still lost a few tussles to criminals hopped up on drugs or ex-cons who spent 2-4 years in prison lifting weights and getting into fights.

[ArchAngelCD]

Lonestar,
Thank you for the link, it was just what I was looking for. I was leaning towards the 60 gr bullet but didn't initially realize it's slower velocity would prevent expansion and penetration. What good is a bigger bullet if it can't get to anything vital to stop the attack?

Funny thing... The 32 gr round on the Poll is the Stinger and it's the only one ATM without a vote!! LOL

[Ala Dan]

40 gr at 1280 fps~! ;) :uhoh:

[ArchAngelCD]

40 gr at 1280 fps~!
Why?

[Fawkes]

I think that if you are down to your trunks, and you're betting the farm on a .22lr, does it really matter which bullet you choose? I chose CCI Stingers for my NAA .22lr, as it is a hollowpoint design, they shoot well, and they didn't break the bank.

[wanderinwalker]

Well, I vote to go find some CCI Mini-Mags. They're what I carry when my 22/45 is on my hip out in the woods. They're hot and reliable, and a .22 needs all the help it can get IMO. These are 40 gr solids and should penetrate nicely.

I'm not sitting here recommending a .22LR as a SD pistol. I'm not even carrying it expressly as a SD pistol while out in the woods. It's there more to deal with things the dog might get into, like porcupines and skunks, or to pop in-season game if the opportunity arises. (Yeah, that's it, we'll see... ;) ) Should the need arise (and I hope the day never comes) a couple of .22s to somebody's face is going to make their day miserable no matter what.

Oh, and anecdotal finding: Federal 36gr bulk pack will penetrate 1.5" of wet, green white pine from 55-60 feet, and look like bent solids when extracted.

[rustymaggot]

the answer is whichever goes the deepest. untill i see gel tests for each from the specified barrel length its a toss up. id love to see gel tests for all the 22lr.

i will say that i have aguilla sss in my pistol at home. thats the 60 grain 950fps. they make it an average of 9 inches and they turn sideways alot. its not .357 magnum performance, but its pretty good for 22lr.

[jac714]

My Ruger MkIII likes the 40 gr standard velocity best for target work. It is the most accurate.

I don't use it as a HD or PD gun only target so these work fine.

[kBob]

In the past when I felt carrying something else (better) might be a problem, I carried a Beretta M-21A in .22LR. I even packed it in a sandwitch bag and took it swiming and snorkling. Afterwards I would take it home ans shoot it. I found that if I took the time to rip the top of the bag off,even while gripping the grip, that it functiond as well as any other time and that MOST of the time I could get of a single shot through the bag.

I carried this on the theory that ANY gun is better than NO gun. I did this on the basis of a Gerry Kleck study of Justice department numbers that showed having a gun meant I and mine were less likely to be injured in an assault, for whatever reason than if I depended on a Knife or anything else to include total coperation with the bad folks or begging.

I did not and do not believe there is enough difference at pistol velocities to make squat difference about the use of a Hollow Point or lighter bullet.

I used my little chrono to test my otherwise favorite .22LR load and the one I had found to be the most reliable feeder and firer in the Beretta, the Winchester Super X 40 grain solid. I got velocities that day at that temperature at that elevation of between 710 and 740 fps. I also found it would reliably penitrate a dry treated 1X4 ( I think that is 7/8 inth thick actually) at five yards and sometimes two but not reliably on the second.

I believe the ammo company charts list the round at something over 1200fps but out of that short barrel as you can see it was considerably less.

In my gun and on that day I found that Stingers were not apreciably faster, still less than 800fps on every round though even with hearing protection thay were noticably louder if you think that a plus. Hmm 40 grain at atleast 710 or 32 grain at not more than 790. Don't see enough difference to worry about.

Not advertising for Winchester, but when you can find it the 40 grain solid Super X with the copper wash generally gives the best accuracy and functioning results in all my rifles and pistols for field use. In some rifles I have found it more accurate out to 100 yards than "match ammo". Never had a failure to feed in a 22 autoloder that fetured the cut across hollow point one sometimes finds on things like the Ruger Mark Whatever pistol or some semi auto rifles. Also feeds best from one clip loading bolt action and as it happens that is the rifle it is most accurate in, an Anshutz 1441/42/43 bought in Neu Ulm across the river from its home three decades ago.

While I am not as happy with a .22LR mini pistol as I would be with the Mark IV Series 70 .45ACP I play steel games with, a little .22LR beats wishing I had a gun when I needed one.

I no longer carry the Beretta, mainly because I was not happy with that particular gun's reliability, occasional failures to fire and very occasional failures to fire on a second strike, with any ammunition. And because I found the KelTec P32 to be close enough in size and with better ammo in that size package.

-Bob Hollingsworth

[magnagunz]

On the side track, I weigh over 250#, fought 29 times where knock out were allowed in a variety of styles including mma (almost anything goes). I carry a glock 21 .45 at work. I have the kel tec 9mm and .380. If I can't carry any of those, the back up to the back ups, is a naa .22. I'd take the 5 rounds in the .22 over a knife or my fighting skill anyday.

[sm]

ArchAngelCD,

What I am about to suggest applies to any firearm, no matter if handgun, shotgun or rifle. Makes no difference what caliber or guage.

Just my opinion mind you-

1.Firearm MUST feed, extract ammunition - Period.
Magazines are included as they are a integral part of Semi-Auto firearms.

Always check to make sure ammunition feeds, extracts and includes magazines.

2. Shoots to Point of Aim / Point of Impact [POA/POI]
Some guns are "set up" to shoot certain loadings to shoot POA/POI .

3. Shot placement is the key.

If the gun will not feed or extract, it sure won't go POA/POI
If the gun gets a round in the chamber and shoots into the next county when sights are on target, it is not going to "Place The Shot".

I do not care what everyone "says" about a loading, what any magazine wrote, or any Internet Forum says.
One has to test for themselves.

Me, to answer your question.
Beretta 21 A, Ruger MKI, MKII, Browning Buckmarks, Jframe 22 revolvers, H&R999, I carried Win X22LR which is a 40 gr LRN HV load. Why? That load across the board ran in any .22 semi-auto action I shot it in. Accuracy was sometimes the best, if not across the board "acceptable".
This load was easy to get and I bought it by the cases.

T22, and Dynapoint are Standard Pressure loads - which also fed , extracted and shot POA/ POI for me.

Not only for me, also everybody else with who knows what kind of gun and action. Five cases of WinX22LR does not last long - trust me.

Win became harder to get here for me. CCI did, I like the Mini Mag and Standard loads, these always worked in any gun I run them in , and those at the range.

Fed Bulk Pack, that .36 gr load, runs in everything.
Fed American Eagle does the same.

Personally, I like a Standard load of 40 grain LRN. Truth is, always been easier to find High Velocity loads such as the X22LR.

I have not, and do not suggest Stingers and other Hyper Velocity .22 loadings to folks, sure don't for more serious uses.

ArchAngelCD,
My suggestion is to get a variety and see what your gun feeds, extracts and if a magazine fed gun , works with best. See what YOUR eyes, stance, grip and shoot POA/ POI.
Truth is, you and I are most likely going to differ in stance, grip and all, not to mention our eyes are different.
I would recommend a standard or high velocity loading only.

Rest of you folks, I know there are other calibers besides .22 rim-fire.
It is none of my business as to why ArchAngelCD, is asking or wanting to know.

I will share I stopped a serious immediate threat before I was a teenager with a .22 caliber rim fire revolver.

I will share I know of persons with serious physical limits that cannot shoot any other fire arm than a .22 rim-fire.
These folks used to could shoot other firearms, in center-fire loadings and cannot.

I will share I have snuck a Beretta Minx, .22 short, to a UC LEO officer in a serious, serious setting. Done the same thing with Beretta Jetfire which shoots a 25ACP loading.

If I had my druthers I'd tote a 12 or 20 shotgun loaded with slugs, Brennke's preferred 24/7 - I cannot.

I also know there are members from all over the world that are members of THR and sometimes there are restrictions on what guns and what ammo they can use, or limited selections.

Mindset is the key and repetition of training the brain, it is less about the hardware and more about the software.




The faster most folks realize that all guns suck, the happier they'll be.
-Tamara

[kludge]

This thread just convinced me to chrono some 22LR stuff out of my revolver... when it warms up.

[LHB1]

Quote: "If you are going to shoot a .22LR round out of a 2.4" barrel handgun which .22LR round would be more effective as a man stopper? "

NONE and you won't get those velocities out of a 2.4" pistol barrel!!! You asked us to NOT suggest other options, yet the options you listed are NOT SUITABLE FOR SELF DEFENSE IN MY PERSONAL OPINION. If you choose to trust your life to such inadequate caliber/pistol that is your business but I will NOT contribute to that decision. GOOD LUCK!!!

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

[PILMAN]

Didn't the Mossad use .22lr? It seemed to work fine for them.

[sm]

I've heard many folks in many settings use .22 lr. These folks had training and fired a lot of .22 lr in training.

Training is the key.

My take is, if a person is limited, no matter what this "limitation is" be it physical, finances, legislative - whatever...

The person that has "trained" and continues to "train" with a .22 rim-fire, putting in the time and effort, and consistently gets quick accurate hits on ping pong balls, golf balls, even a tennis ball - IMO - is better armed with knowledge, training and .22 rim-fire handgun than someone that has a centerfire, shot a cylinder/ magazine through it, loaded the gun with really neat defense ammunition and stuck it in a sock drawer and only handles the gun when putting up clean socks.


Fact is , most folks would do well to shoot more quality / train with a .22 rim-fire that closely matches CCW, Hunting and other centerfire firearm uses.
For sure, many would be better off buying a .22 handgun - especially a revolver as their first handgun. Ditto for a .22 bolt rifle as first rifle.

The gun has to run. It has to feed and extract. IF the gun does not do these two things, this other stuff is not important at all.
Makes no difference on what kind of gun, caliber , type of ammunition or nothing.

Just a gun shaped something holding ctgs - might as well be a paperweight.

[mashaffer]

I suppose the best bet might be 40gr solids run through Paco Kelly's accurizer tool which puts a slight cup point on it. Should provide a good mix of penetration and tissue disruption. The fast hollow points probably can no be counted on for penetration and without that you have nothing. BTW as a data point the federal copper washed HPs clock about 900 to 950 through my worn H&R 999 with 6" barrel. Chances are that derringer velocities will be much lower. don't count on any hollowpoint being predictable.

mike

[mike101]

I voted for the 40 grain, based on all the ballistics info I have seen on manufacturers web sites. They always seem to deliver the most energy. You would think a 50 grain would, but not so. The only 60 grain I know of is the Acquilla sub-sonic stuff. 60 grain bullet on top of a .22 short case. I wouldn't count on that for much.

They say that .22s have killed more people than any other caliber, aside from in warfare. Most .22 LRs will go right through a human head, without too much trouble. They not only work for the Mosad. They work pretty well for hit-men too, from what I understand.

[vta33]

Well the Remington Yellow Jacket, 33-grain hollow point, @ 1500fps is my favorite. It's very accurate in my Ruger Mk III, 22/45.

Looks like there are mucho Mk III owners here. :-)

[jibjab]

The CCI Velocitor is worth a look, this may be the best choice for the short barrel 22lr.

Sorry, if these where solid points they might be the better choice.

[ArchAngelCD]

NONE and you won't get those velocities out of a 2.4" pistol barrel!!! You asked us to NOT suggest other options, yet the options you listed are NOT SUITABLE FOR SELF DEFENSE IN MY PERSONAL OPINION. If you choose to trust your life to such inadequate caliber/pistol that is your business but I will NOT contribute to that decision. GOOD LUCK!!!
LHB1,
When did I say I was going to use a .22 as a SD weapon? When did I say I was going to trust my life to a .22? You may think the .22 is inadequate but that wasn't the question. I asked everyone not to suggest a different caliber because I wanted to discuss the characteristics of different weights and velocities of the .22 LR round, not it's merits as a primary SD caliber.

You said you weren't going to contribute to this discussion and you didn't lie, nothing you said contributed to this discussion. I think your post was very arrogant and you shouldn't post if you have nothing to add. I'm not some little kid on the corner you think you have the right to kick around. Don't be so condescending next time, it's insulting and I highly resent it. :fire:

I would like to thank everyone else for a fine discussion and for their contributions.
That’s what THR is all about.

[LHB1]

Quote: "LHB1, When did I say I was going to use a .22 as a SD weapon? When did I say I was going to trust my life to a .22? "

Chill out. You asked "If you are going to shoot a .22LR round out of a 2.4" barrel handgun which .22LR round would be more effective as a man stopper?" That implies the use of it for self defense.

"You said you weren't going to contribute to this discussion and you didn't lie, nothing you said contributed to this discussion. I think your post was very arrogant and you shouldn't post if you have nothing to add. I'm not some little kid on the corner you think you have the right to kick around. Don't be so condescending next time, it's insulting and I highly resent it." So, get over it. Anyone asking about using the .22 LR as a "manstopper" should expect such an answer. In fact, I thought my answer was polite and to the point. You don't have to read it if you don't like it. As far as "manstoppers" go, I don't think .22 LR is anywhere near that category. As Robert Ruark wrote "Use Enough Gun".

Have a good day and watch your blood pressure.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

[tnieto2004]

I would be willing to bet money that most the people saying ".22 WONT STOP NOBODY!!!" have never been shot with one ..

[hexidismal]

tnieto2004: Well, you'd lose that bet. Actually, I guess you did say "most" and that covers you :)

[bubbygator]

I didn't vote because my 5-shot NAA derringer is in .22 Magnum. I would go with the early responses: whichever one delivers the highest energy. Also, since your available energy range is relatively low, I'd stay away from hollow-points & go with solids for best penetration.

[DMK]

ArchAngelCD, you're splitting hairs. It's not going to make a difference which of those you use.

Get the most reliable ammo (in other words, don't buy Remington Golden Bullet value packs). Buy something decent that will probably cost a bit more than $11 a brick. Get something with a high velocity, but more importantly, get a round nose, not an HP. You want the deepest penetration possible.

Oh yea, and practice shooting until the mag's empty, then reloading a new mag and emptying that. ;)

[1shotonly]

". . .22LR round out of a 2.4" barrel. . . .?"

Forget about shock power, it isn't going to happen with a 2" barrel in any caliber especially a .22. The only thing you can hope for is penetration.

A heavy slow moving slug will penetrate deeper than a fast light weight slug. All though out of a 2.4" barrel it almost doesn't matter, it will be the same as poking holes in the guy with a Philips screw driver, the only difference is the heavier slug will poke a little bit deeper hole.

Myth Busters shot a slow moving 9mm pistol at a long stack of ballistics gel and in penetrated several feet, then they shot it with 30-06 with hollow points, the .30-06 only penetrated about 6" or 9". The .30-06 had tremendous shock value, the bullet exploded with a shock wave sending the block of gel into the air, in an animal it probably feels like a miniature nuke going off in the body complete destruction of everything in it's 6" blast radius and sending a stunning shock wave though the rest of the body, but it didn't penetrate very far.

The fact is heavy slower moving slugs penetrate deeper that fast light slugs. Kind of like an arrow shot from a bow, it will penetrate very deep even though it is moving very slow.

[1shotonly]

If you use a hyper vel .22 with it's light weight slug in a 2" barrel this is what will happen:

The light slug will leave the barrel sooner and half the powder will burn out side the barrel in a muzzle flash. Only half the powder will be used to push the bullet, and the bullet is light weight, compounding the problem. So now you have a lighter slug with less powder behind it. With the heavier slower moving slug, more powder will be used to push the bullet transferring more of the powder’s energy to the target. In this case the energy to penetrate deeper.

[1shotonly]

BTW
T/C once posted that a .22LR will reach it's maximum Velocity in a 10" barrel, any length after that the bullet is just coasting. Roughly speaking that would mean that it takes 10" for the powder to burn up completely, so in a 2" barrel you might say, very roughly, that 2/10th of the powder is used to push the bullet (plus or minus a big margin).

It would be nice to take a hacksaw to the range, starting with a 16" contender barrel and keep cutting 2" off the barrel as you chronagraph the velocity of each length from 16" down to 2".

[ArchAngelCD]

Again, thank you for all the replies, it's been a big help!
Like I said in Post #3:
I know what you're saying about using a .22 for SD. The gun I'm talking about is a Derringer w/2.4" barrel. It isn't intended for primary SD use but when you are in swim trunks and nothing else, that's about all you can carry!! LOL
It's not my gun and I was trying to find out what would be the best .22 round for that Derringer. It will be carried when no other gun is possible or as a last chance BUG to a BUG. All he wanted to know is, if I have only a .22, what is the best ammo to carry in it...

My vote went to the Aguila 60 gr SSS Subsonic @950 fps. I think that just might be the best choice of this situation.

[Mad Chemist]

The wt. and velocity aren't as important as reliability. There was a point in my life when the only firearm I owned was a .22 pistol. I kept it loaded with CCI Stingers. I don't recall the wt. but they are high-velocity rds. The reason I picked them was that they had NEVER given me or anyone I know an ammo related malfunction.

Cheap rimfire ammo will give occasional FTF.

SD tactics for a .22 HG: draw, empty the mag into the attacker, have a sap or knife as a secondary weapon.

A .22 is certainly not the best option for SD but sometimes we have to make do with what we have.

[1shotonly]

One last note about the age old debate over high velocity small projectile verses low velocity heavy projectile.

Rifles have the edge on high speed shock, in hand guns you will never have the velocity and shock value that a rifle can deliver.

Because all bullets from a snub nose will be slow, in a snub nose hand gun you need to go for the biggest hole with the deepest penetration to create the largest wound possible, that means the largest caliber with the heaviest bullet for a large deep hole.

[461]

My personal preference is the Stinger for a few reasons. I've used the round in hunting and know that it performs at least on jackrabbits and squirrels. I know that it is accurate in the guns I use which is probably most important.

You need to try all the rounds in your particular gun and find the one that gives the best performance and accuracy at the same time. The speed numbers are really irrelevant here as the numbers need to come from your gun, not a factory test barrel. .22's are notorious for preferring one brand over another when it comes to accuracy so you need to do some solid personal testing to know what yours will and will not do with a certain ammo.

a .22 can be great fun, but finding the ammo it likes can be a chore even if the rewards are worth it.

Just to throw water on a few folks, if a .22 is what you've got then by gosh it's what you'll use. Anybody who says they'll throw away a loaded gun to trust a knife or their fighting skills is either a liar or an idiot and I don't have much time for either one.

[Sylvan-Forge]

Solids for optimal penetration

[ArchAngelCD]

I should have put more information on the choices. These are the names that go with the weights and speeds:

30 gr @ 1750 fps. Aguila Super Max HP
32 gr @ 1640 fps. CCI Stinger CC HP
36 gr @ 1410 fps. Remington Viper LRN
40 gr @ 1280 fps. Winchester Power Point LHP
60 gr @ 950 fps. Aguila Sniper Subsonic LRN

I should have added CCI's Velociter to the list, 40 gr Gold Dot HP @ 1450 fps.

[Sylvan-Forge]

... of that bunch; 36 gr @ 1410 fps. Remington Viper LRN.

[tnieto2004]

40 gr Gold Dot HP @ 1450 fps sounds good to me

[ArchAngelCD]

I keep changing my mind on this topic.

First I liked the 60 gr Aguila Sniper Subsonic LRN.

Then I was thinking about the CCI Velociter 40 gr Gold Dot HP @ 1450 fps.

But then I was thinking Remington's Viper 36 gr LRN @ 1410 fps. would be better than the Velociter because the Velociter is a HP and the Viper has a Solid Point.

:banghead: :confused: :banghead: :confused: :banghead: :confused: :banghead:

[tubeshooter]

I thought the Viper was more conical in shape....


Just to stay on topic, I'd go with 40 grain myself.

[Sylvan-Forge]

If you or your friend could test different cartridges out of the derringer to find what is best ..

Here's what I would suggest for some testing benchmarks :


*Solids - The harder, the better (Most, if not all hollow point .22lr bullets are for very small game and will possibly shatter or parachute in a human target, failing to adequately penetrate.)


*Function (shoot as many as you need to feel confident that the rounds will indeed fire.)


*Accuracy (self explanatory.)


*Power, a balancing act (Based upon the hardness of the bullet. Go too fast and risk fragmentation of the bullet. Although not likely out of the derringer.)


Set up a piece of 3/4" plywood to (roughly) simulate the chest plate or cranial bone and eliminate any that won't pass through. Paper milk jugs filled with water behind the plywood maybe.

Report findings back to THR! :D


PS. I'll be running some of my own backyard testing in the very near future and will likewise report my findings. {5.9" bbl semi-auto}

[Sylvan-Forge]

Actually, now that I think about it, 3/4" plywood may not be the best bone equivalent ... looking now for something better ...


average skull thickness = ~6.1mm
skull material density = ~2088 kg/m3
other properties = not yet found


... better yet, I'll drop it here and say to ignore my mad ramblings and I'll start another thread so as to not confound this one further.

[1shotonly]

If you're talking about accuracy:

About 10 years ago I Bench rested a my Ruger MkII with a 5-1/2" Bull Barrel on sandbags at the 100 yard range with a 7x scope, and test 16 different types and brands of .22LR ammo. I don't remember all the figures but I remember the best and the worst. The worst was any of the hypervelocity rounds, most averaged 6"-8" groups at 100yrds, the worst thought were the Yellow Jackets, they grouped about 14" @100yrd. The best, of the ones I tried at that time, were the expensive Eley Tenex rounds(though Lapua might be better now), they gave groups averaging less than 2" with the best 5-shot group at just under 1". It's interesting to note however that one of the least expensive, some Winchester .22LR rounds they sold at the range for about $3, were almost as good as the expensive stuff, giving groups about 2-1/2". None of the stuff I tried from CCI worked out very well, falling about the middle of the pack.

If you are talking about a .22 round out of a 2.4" barrel for self defense then:

It really doesn't matter, what ever you use will be fine, they will all poke a painful hole in the guy and they all can be deadly if they land in the right spot. Any of them will work, even the .22 short might be a good idea, it might give the effect of having a slightly longer barrel for the bullet to accelerate in.

[haybaler]

I can't vote because I don't know what would be best. When I was in the cattle business once a year we would slaughter a steer or an old cow for our own freezer. One .22 shot from a rifle between the eyes and that 1000 lb. animal drops like a rock. The same thing happened to the son of my friend from an accidental shooting. .22's may not be the best choice but if it's what you have it beats the hell out of hand to hand or a knife. I know you were asking for opinions on specific bullet weights so I'm a little off topic but since others brought it up I thought I would throw in my own .02.

[3sixbits]

I use the WINCHESTER .22 LR Super X 40 grain loads, and nothing else as they have killed many thousands of pound of meat for me. The work on moose, elk , blacktail and mule deer. Only one country in this world issued other that the .22 LR for assassins and that was GB with the .455. But then again not a trauma center in the country likes to deal with GS wounds from the lowly .22 rimfire.

[wcwhitey]

SM, amen brother, well written. I could not have expressed my opinions better. Bill

[swoter]

My father worked in a sausage plant for many years, and up to probably 20 years ago, they used a single-shot 22 rifle to kill the hogs. I don't remember if he told me just where they were shot, but it would only take one bullet 99% of the time. These were the old and very big hogs that were pretty much useless for any other cuts of meat.

[Wheeler44]

I did not vote. for the price of .22 rounds buy the best for the gun in question. accuracy is always best. that said, I guarantee that I can run faster on both legs than anyone can with two .22lr in one of theirs. I can probably fight better on both legs with an empty derringer in my hand than most people can with two .22lr in them anywhere. Ideal SD round, NO!! Better than nothin', heck yes.

[PedalBiker]

I didn't vote either. The options give rifle velocities and you're asking about a handgun with a very short barrel.

I'd chrono all of them first, then consider the options. I bet you'd be surprised by the stinger - it makes a really big and bright yellow flame ball from my 4" Mark III.

I like the Stinger and Velocitor in a rifle, but it depends on how slow the powder is whether it'll be any good in a handgun.

[BigFatKen]

That 60gr bullet would not likely stabilize in typical .22 rifling, so your penetration would suck.

Not true out to at least 25 yards and then run away. Some say 75 yards but that is not the point here. I use these all the time around my house. Will not function a factory semi.

Very quiet. The Mossad used these in modified semiauto pistols at, where was that in the 70's Lillyhammer? Of course they had 6" inch barrels, with two shooters who shot 'til their mags were empty while others were cover and backup. They don't mess around. One Arab got three 30 round mags of 9mm from three sides from Uzi's while the women in the four person team rolled tape. Much better system.

Good post. I have a 5 shot revolver with 1.5" barrel and I always wondered if the 60 gr was better than my normal choice 40gr of CCI Mini-Mags for my backup to my S&W .357 hammerless which backs up my Glock 21 (.45 ACP).

A very good link. I never thought the 60 bullet would have only 600 fps and it would be less from my 1.5" thing.

[BigFatKen]

,,

[Sylvan-Forge]

The Mossad used these in modified semiauto pistols at, where was that in the 70's Lillyhammer? Of course they had 6" inch barrels,

Something like this, I think...
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=53670&stc=1&d=1172089350

[borrowedtime69]

i would use the 40 grain Velocitors from CCI for the following reasons:

1. 40 gr bullet has a good weight and mass to it, it should hold together upon penatration and provide the inertia need for deep penatration.

2. it will still be able to get good speed rather than the over large 60 grainers. that will help the inertia too.


if a bullet is too light and fast it wont penatrate, if its too heavy you wont get the inertia up high enough to do real damage, it may not even get through clothing very well. you must have a good balace of weight and speed. -Eric

[BigFatKen]

*Function (shoot as many as you need to feel confident that the rounds will indeed fire.)

I should have added that I took the Augula SSS off my list when they had 3 failures to fire about half way into my brick of 500 which is about 5 years old.