[P95Carry]

Pilots landing on carriers are used to this ....... what about a real life ''in extremis'' scenario?? Do you think it might come into play? Would it prejudice your performance??

I have yet to know this and hope I will not but I wonder ..... or does adrenalin take over?? Guess we don't know until ..........

[JackC]

I don't know if this is what you mean, but , in my expierences in high pressure steam plants, training takes over and the puckering comes later. As my 1st class userd to say "hear that? the sound of 8 a**holes slaming shut" during engineering casulities.
Jack

[Hal]

- I was curious about this myself at one point.

- I went to Garretsville, Ohio airport and plopped down $60.00 for a day's fun.

- I was one of ~10 there that day.

- We spent all morning learning how to hit the ground and roll. - -PLF's. (parachute landing falls)

- @ 12:00 we took an hour for lunch.

As we were leaving the instructor told us we'd spend the afternoon learning what to do if it "all went bad". Our collective jovial mood turned sour at that point. None of us considered the very real possibility that it could "all go bad" while we were having fun.
The afternoon session was filled with ~ 8 (notice how the number dropped? a couple people didn't come back from lunch) very seriously stone faced and attentive students.
Near the end of the class, the sky darkened and it started to drizzle, so they called off our jump that day and told us we could come back at any time for our jump.

- - fast foreward 1 week- -

- The few of us (6?) that returned went through an hour of refresher, then suited up and waddled out towards the plane.

- We volunteered for positions - not wanting to be first, and certainly not last, I ended up being second.

- - Pucker time - -
As we were waiting to board, we all watched another placne circling for altitude. It had 5 people inside that were going to freefall from ~ 10K feet. All of a sudden, the smallplane "belched" out a cloud of black, and 5 littel "dots" came spilling out of it. The pilot told us it blew it's turbo-charger - no big deal!!! Happens sometimes!!! _ Pucker starts_- thankfully because my large intestine suddenly felt very full.
Anywho, we all load up - plane goes down the runway for what seems like forever - I remember thinking my lawnmower sounds healthier than the plane. _Pucker +_ as we struggle to make 2500 feet.

@ 2500 fet, pilot commands first jumper to "open the door". She does. 120 mph wind cates the door and repeatedly "slams" it up and down against an already "rickety bucket of bolts". _Pucker ++_ at that point. I stare down at my reserve chute and the battery powered altimeter that "should" deploy it if I freeze.
My turn!!! _Pucker @ red line. I open the door. Pucker over red line. I'm told "step out of the plane" Pucker off the scale as I step out/look down @ the ground. I "hopped" along a 2" bar, a foot and a half long, on one foot, 1/2 of a mile in the air. Strangly, the Pucker had vanished @ that point. Gone. !00% not there. The rush of the prop wash, the surreal appearance of the ground below,,,an adreniline level somwhere near gallons, and so "much to do that had to be done right".

- - I have little to no recall of the pilot slapping my leg to signal me to push off - pushing off and falling - the "jerk" of the static line - or "counting 1,2,3" as we were instructed to do before we looked up to check our canopy to make sure the chute opened. Three to five seconds of my life just "disappeared". My next memory is of looking up at the chute and seeing a nice round canopy. That was followed by maybe 15 seconds of feeling "WOW!! I made it!! " relief,,,,followed by another 45 seconds of looking around at the scenery,,followed by another 50 seconds of,,,believe it or not,,boredom?!? There ain't jack to do exepcet swing your legs and look at the same scenery. Sheer terror returned in a rush when I hit treetop level and could see how high up in the air I was ~ 75 - 100 feet. @ that point, I froze and forgot all about doing a perfect PLF. When I hit the gound, I just sat down instead of rolling. When the pilot landed, he gave us our cards with our grades on them. I did Ok. Not great, not bad, but Ok. High side of fair/low side of good.

I did better the second (and last I might add!!) time I jumped. Good release/excellent landing.

I didn't conquer my fear of heights, or discover my inner fears and deal with them or anything. What I did do was scare the living squat out of myself, and learn that when it comes to a high stress situation you can't really be sure, you never know exactly what your "breaking point" is going to be. On my second jump, one of the guys froze in his seat and they had to land with jumpers still on the plane. Man were they PO'ed! Another guy froze on his way down and just kind of drifeted off with the wind towards a line of trees. I couldn't fault them becuse I "froze" the first jump, right before my feet hit the ground. Second time around, after I put in some time doing PLF's, I did pretty good.

My whole windy point here is there are ways you can kind of find out how you deal with a high stress situation, without actually having to be in that situation. For me, I always wanted to skydive, but I'm really not comfortable being up high.- 25 feet up tops, then I want something to hug. I did learn that @ the point of highest stress, and with a gallon or so of adrenilin in my body, *something* happens. Phermones or something get dumped to counteract the rush and things just get crystal clear and focused.- - sometimes. You can't count on it though as my bad first landing illustrates. Mostly though, you just go on "automatic" and do what you have to do. It can't be instinct, becase instinct isn't to jump from a high place. Actually, instinct is to run, and quite a few first time jumpers really do try to run in the air.:D It's kind of funny - -unless YOU'RE the one with his legs pumping ;) All of us first-timers stood around afterwards and critiqued other jumpers now that we were *experts* :D Really, we were all just plain relieved we were in one piece and were just winding down.
(pardon all the spelling mistakes)

[Country Boy]

A pucker factor is good as long as it doesn't go negative!

[P95Carry]

Hal,

Wonderful anecdotal stuff there .. enjoyable and thx for takin the trouble.:)

[dinosaur]

Great story Hal. :D

[Skunkabilly]

Anyone who voluntarily jumps out of a plane that has all the shiny white parts on it and doesn't have black stuff coming out of it is just...sick.

[Tom C.]

As a pilot, we generally thought that keeping the number of take-offs and landings the same was a good idea. Why jump out of a perfectly good aircraft?

Landing on an aircraft carrier is something else again. There is little in this life where you litterally have your life in your hands. Live or die by your own skill. Cool! They say it takes about 100 carrier landings to get comfortable with it. As a Marine, I didn't get more than a dozen. It was, and it remains, an adventure.

[Bigjake]

not to hijack the thread here, but it only cost you 60$?? for instruction and a jump? got a link to that? i live in ohio and really want to do it!

[Ian Sean]

Jack C, nothing like a 1200 pound safety valve lifting is there?

You damn MM's on throttles taking all the steam and then giving it back, you can always tell when theres a U/I on throttles.

My Burnerman scrambling to catch up, then tries to light off that last burner that is loose and fuel oil spews all over the boiler and the fireroom fill up with white smoke.

Pucker you up every time.

Ahh glory days for "The Men Who Sailed Below".

[JackC]

The one that really made me pucker was looking into the air casing and seeing water in there, about 1 1/2 ft deep. had a fireman pull the hose connection to let it drain into the bilge and found out it was fuel. Or bringing the second boiler online and having the aft plant drop the load at 27 kts. paralleling boilers and x-connecting at the same time.
Jack

[Pilot]

Tom C. wrote:

"As a pilot, we generally thought that keeping the number of take-offs and landings the same was a good idea. Why jump out of a perfectly good aircraft?"


I totally agree. You must be nuts!

For some reason the body reacts to fear that way, especially if you are getting shot at when your in the aircraft!

[Jesse H]

not to hijack the thread here, but it only cost you 60$?? for instruction and a jump? got a link to that? i live in ohio and really want to do it!

That's really cheap. I paid $150, and that was for a tandem jump.

[El Tejon]

Mouth was very dry. No ill effects until after. Got sick and limb shaking.

[jsalcedo]

Other than a housefire and a couple of bar brawls.The one that stands out was when I was 16 travelling with my dad to Fort Benning for his airborne reunion.

Someone with pull made the training area into a carnival atmosphere and anyone could try the 40ft tower where you are in a harness and jump out of an airplane mockup fall 15 feet and then slide down a wire into a sand pit.

The scary one for me was the 250 foot drop tower.
It was just a 2x12 plank to sit on with no harness or seatbelt that lifted me up to the very top and dropped with a pre deployed parachute.

It was better than any roller coaster and the pucker was there for sure.

[DJJ]

Flying into the (uncharacteristically, frighteningly dark) bay area and landing a taildragger, at night, during one of the biggest power outages in west coast history.

Turned out to be one of the best landings I ever made. :confused:

[280PLUS]

"keep your butthole tight" only they used a slightly different spelling for butthole, if you catch my drift

the reason being if you didnt make a concious effort to do that during an artillery attack the concussion of the shells bursting was enough to override the usual normal tightness and cause you to, well,,,i think you might get the picture.

now thats what i call pucker factor...

:what:

oh, loud squealing tires and headlights growing in the rearview mirror can also induce a little pucker...

:D

[FPrice]

"As a pilot, we generally thought that keeping the number of take-offs and landings the same was a good idea. Why jump out of a perfectly good aircraft?"

Having been involved in aviation in one way or another for all of my adult life I can safely say that there is no such thing as a "perfectly good aircraft".

[444]

Hal, that story was amazing in the fact that it almost exactly mirrored my first experence at skydiving. I even did it in Ohio, but it was near Canton. When I exited the airplane, I was terrified in every sense of the word. I don't think I could have been more scared. It took every ounce of courage I had to check the canopy. Then, after I knew everything was OK, it was like you say, almost like boredom set it. I guess it is the let down of going from total terror to almost instantly feeling secure.

I have been in a few real close calls or situations that were way high on the adreniline scale and I think I handled myself pretty well. Again, as mentioned, it seemed like it wasn't until it was over that I got the shakes.

Obviously people do things every day that would scare other people to death. But, they just have gotten used to it. I wonder if their mindset translates into other areas of their life ?

[Gordy Wesen]

"Having been involved in aviation in one way or another for all of my adult life I can safely say that there is no such thing as a "perfectly good aircraft."


Now there's a quoteable quote.

[Phyphor]

We got snipes here? Cool!

Hey, is it true that a steam leak on a 1200 PSI plant can cut the end off a broom handle?

:D

[BB93YJ]

Broomhandle, hand, head, the steam don't care. My rack on the Kitty Hawk was the top one of a threepack. One of the 1200lb superheated steam lines ran right above my head in our berthing compartment.

To the BT's, I was on the Hawk in '73 enroute to the P.I. when they had an explosion in one of the engine rooms, fuel line spraying fuel on a superheater coil, explosion, 6 dead, GQ for 24 hrs. listing so bad no planes could be launched. Sat in Subic for nearly 45 days for the repairs...high pucker factor throughout that little incident, among others

[Hal]

RE: the $60.00 jump.
Sadly in some ways, and gladly in others, things have changed since I jumped in 1980.
- Prices have gone up. $150.00 seems to be the going rate now.
- Most jump schools from what I can gather, use tandem jumps for first timers. I have mixed feeling on that myself. From what I can see, if you jump tandem you can free fall on your first jump. Otherwise, if you jump solo, you're on a static line. I really wanted to free fall,,,but after doing 2 jumps, I can see why they made you have 5 static line jumps at the time, before you could free fall.
- The chute I wore was a T10 military surplus, not the newer parawing style. The T10 was(is) a 32(?) foot dia canopy with a pretty gentel and docile ride.

Jake,
Sorry. I believe Garretsvile airport where I jumped in 1980 is closed up now. Try:
http://www.uspa.org/default.htm
and check for a location near you. If you want to do it (jump), go for it. It's one of those things that not too any people have an interest in.(for obvious reasons ;)). I'm glad I did it, but really have no desire to do it again. Not that I wouldn't, just that I'm not going to go out of my way to do it.

Skunk,
Trust me my friend. Being the second jumper,,,and watching the pilot lean across the front seat to close the door/grade the first jumper,,,all I wanted was OUTTA THAT PLANE!! before he did that again. I think that was the worst part of the whole thing. When the pilot let go of all the controls, and the plane just kinda went straight down!!! And us inside kinda went straight up!! :D

444
"When I exited the airplane" - Yeah, that was "the moment of truth" for me too. Up till that point, you had the option of sitting it out. Once that second leg went out the door, there was no turning back. Where I jumped, they told us once were stepped out of the plane, we couldn't come back inside. If we didn't jump, and after the pilot had slapped us on the leg for the third time, the pilot would shake us off !!!!! No way dude!!! :D

all,
Mostly, it was kind of a canned danger I guess. Dialed up a notch,,but nowhere near the real deal these other guys are talking about. I knew I always had an option of not doing it (the actual jump). That's a big difference from knowing whats got to be done, and doing it because it *has to be done*.

[Fly320s]

Anyone who voluntarily jumps out of a plane that has all the shiny white parts on it and doesn't have black stuff coming out of it is just...sick.

Obviously, Skunk, you've never been in a jump plane. :D

If anyone wants to do a solo free fall on their first jump look into the Accelerated Free Fall (AFF) course. Expensive, but at the end you'll be qualified to jump on your own.

[mini14jac]

I had a really boring software class once, but the teacher was a really interesting lady.
(I think she taught for Wonderware out of Cali.)

She had been a jump instructor, and told us about the time when one of her jumpers' chute had failed to open.
I guess he froze, because she had to do the head-down-arms-at-the-side thing, and dive down to his level, bear hug him, and pull her chute.

Talk about pucker-factor!

[280PLUS]

you could light a ciggie off of the bare metal of the pipes (where it was exposed) in the system.

my rack was right next to mt 51 (adams class) i got to where i could sleep with them popping off rounds.

(the old 5" / 54 for the unknowing)(they went bang pretty good)

the thing that would bother me is they had a habit of dryfiring it repeatedly which just caused some mechanical noises from the ammo hoist and after a while it lulled you into complacent half sleep, but every once in a while they'd stick a live one in there and surprise us real good...


mm3 btw and i never sucked a boiler off the line with my throttles

least as i can remember anyhow...

:evil:

speaking of pucker...

i pulled a nice 180 with the ship at 20 knots one time testing the steering gear in after steering,

the watch was chasing the compass the wrong way and we thought the gear had failed so i grabbed it and put the rudder all the way to the stops.

the pucker really came when, afterwards, over the 1MC i hear, "MM3 ***** please report to the bridge."

:what: :eek: :D

[Rickstir]

I'm 56, when I was just out of high school, it was a long time ago. The fancy paramedic ambulances did not exist yet. I worked for a funeral home, and we offered ambulance service. We got the basic First Aid training that fireman got at that time, it wasn't much.
I delivered two babies. Talk about pucker! I got lucky, on the first one it was the lady's 10th birth and she talked me through it. The second one was not a more dificult birth, just she was in no condition to offer any help. You develop a tremendous case of tunnel vision. We had to pull over so I could loosen the stretcher from the wall and straddel it. We stopped along a Interstate highway at 4:00 in the afternoon. It took about 7 minuets or so to complete the job, and since the baby had started to crown we could not move. The police showed up to protect our back and be nosey of course. You have to conentrate, locate the cord, calm the husband down, sound like it's an everyday thing for you to they don't loose it, work with the smell (summer time both times, bummer) and try to think two moves ahead. It's not just squatting there like a catcher! Both worked out and it's a great feeling but boy do you get the shakes afterward. I did both times and I was thinking I had this stuff down pat by the second one.

[H Romberg]

I drive the DC beltway every day aginst traffic. It's normally a full capacity load of vehicles, moving happily along bumper to bumper at 80MPH. Great till someone twitches. :what:

[gun-fucious]

didn't know there was an "against traffic" direction on the beltway
:evil:
most daze its just twitchy traffic

One evening i saw a semi switch lanes at 65 mph right in front of me!
I de-clutched and braked so hard i think i layed a patch despite the antilock brakes. All the engine oil must of piled up at the back of the sump cause the engine died and i rolled through a swirling cloud of 8.5 x 11 office papers that was causing a local area white out. The paper storm abated, i turned the key, the engine started and i released the clutch at 15mph into second gear and continued onward.
:what:


did'ja know that when rappelling, you walk backwards off a cliff?
Significant sections of your reptilian brain stem advise against this...

[coonan357]

pucker factor ?? when I drive everyday at work when the four wheelers decide to take that extra 10 feet to stop infront of you wen you have a heavy load thats sloshing in the barrel in back thats weighing in at 48 K pounds and is poisionous ! OH Btw I drive a 18 wheeler that pulls a tanker of hazmat !3 years and over 1 million miles as of 4-19-03!! no accidents !!!

[cdbeaver]

The pucker factor isn't limited to aircraft and ships.

Just placing one foot in front of the other during an infantry assault on a well-defended enemy position, or defending a position against an overwhelming assault can cause the puckering string to be called upon for heroic duty. Ask any combat infantryman.

[JackC]

The pucker factor isn't limited to aircraft and ships.

Just placing one foot in front of the other during an infantry assault on a well-defended enemy position, or defending a position against an overwhelming assault can cause the puckering string to be called upon for heroic duty. Ask any combat infantryman.

No argument here, takes more guts than I ever want to display!!

Jack

[MarkDido]

But Coonan!

All you big bad truckdrivers have 18 brakes and can stop on a dime, right!

Heheh

Never pulled tankers, but I pulled 48K loads of roll paper regularly when I was on the road driving for Schneider National (no pumpkin jokes please!)

Worst drivers I think are in CT. I've had 'em come down the get on ramp and pace me all the way to the end, then slam on their brakes and flip me off for not letting them in (like I could) - guess it never occured to them to speed up or slow down...

Miss the job - don't miss the snow, and the hills, and "Flo" in the restaraunt and the lot lizards ;)

[OEF_VET]

You want pucker factor, try walking a patrol through somewhere like the Balkans or Afghanistan, where there are probably 10 land mines for every man, woman, and child. Add to that the fact that the majority of those men, women, and children hate you, resent the fact that you're there, wish you ill will, and have the firepower to bring about that ill will. It's times like that when the hair on your neck stands up, and the center of your fourth point of contact resembles a starfish sucking on a lemon.

[Ryder]

I can get the pucker so bad on a motorcycle that the seat disappears! :what: :what: :what:

All I know for sure is that massive adrenaline overdoses don't adversely affect my riding skills or I simply would not be here writing this. Channeling that adrenaline away from fear and into anger is the trick. The incidents often equate to some form of attempted murder though on rare occasion it has been my fault. Since abject stupidity is not yet a justified self defense opportunity I can only accept the responsibility for all incidents. No accidents yet with innumerable close calls over 25 years of riding.

But would it prejudice my shooting performance you ask? Sometimes I wish it was possible to find out. I can only guess that YES it would affect my shooting skills... Affect them with extreme prejudice! :evil:

I know of a guy who gutted a deer with his motorcycle. After he stopped tumbling in the ditch he went back and emptied his Glock into it. It didn't suffer long. No missed shots that I recall.

I don't have any bike/gun tales of my own and I really hope it stays that way.

[444]

Rickstir
I have delivered something like 20 babies "in the field" over the last 20 years. On all but two of them I either got the dry heaves, or threw up, but usually both. After the fact of course.

Two of these were to the same woman in a housing project about a year apart.


:barf:

[Greybeard]

Good story Hal. I can certainly relate, also having the #2 slot on first jump with some Army dudes in '83 - at a little air show no less.

As our little single-engine went for altitude (and adreline pumped by the bucketfull), I recall asking myself "WHAT are you doing here and WHY are you doing this?" We jumped from 5,000, so I had even had time for a few photos - but, that ground sure comes fast the closer you get, huh?

The most emphasized point of the day from jumpmaster: " When you climb out on that strut and I say 'Go!', DO NOT give me any wild-eyed 'Who, me?' look. You GO!!! "

Things went pretty well with our group (same chute as yours IIRC), except for the buddy who talked me into it. When his canopy popped, he looked up and there were no steering toggles. He'd somehow got a bum package and wound up WAY off yonder ... with an additional bit of pucker factor thrown in by minor last-minute scenery such as highline wires, trees, fresh cowpatties and a bull ... :D

[blades67]

"As a pilot, we generally thought that keeping the number of take-offs and landings the same was a good idea. Why jump out of a perfectly good aircraft?"


Having been in a few, I know there are no "perfectly good" aircraft. There are some that you're better off with a parachute!

[Mr. Black]

It does affect some people's performance, not others. Hence the reason for training. When it does, it's called PANIC. That is the most dangerous thing known to man.

Then again, you know that an aircraft landing is comming. A wreck, gunfight etc. you don't. Straight adrennalin/training etc. there.

I know in march I was on a 25' boat that got pitch polled a 1/2 mile out from shore in the breakers. Really, it wasn't much of a big deal until it was over. Same with motorcycle wrecks.

[sm]

Hal,
Thanks for sharing.
I promised myself when I turned 50 I would take a sky-dive. I was also told "wing walking" would be a hoot as well. Well phooey , I recently turned 49 and I want to do this now - don't want to wait. Sigh...may have to, other priorites in the way this summer. If it pans out tho'...

Now I have been in crop dusters, didn't know at the time it is a big no-no to go under a bridge. Helicopters are fun, especially when "attached" and you get to hang out the side...
I really like little single engines, first private jet was neat...it was the big old commercial airliner that got to me...I couldn't see what was going on. First time I ever became nervous in some kind of aircraft.

So I figure if I can get a kick out of helo losing power, a single engine getting batted around ( thank goodness that Folgers' can was empty :p) and a emergency landing on a farm road in a crop duster( looked like a trail to me) I'm crazy enough to jump out of perfectly good plane.

My buddy had a long legged Blond his first jump and a honey of Brunette the second. Gotta check on this...Something I have to do...and will.

Humm I need to look him up and get the info...

[Justin]

Some good stories here, but this isn't really gun related. Too bad. :(