Magazine as Foregrip...Bad Form?


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Skunkabilly
June 3, 2003, 01:29 PM
I seen some photos with popos using the magwell of an AR15, MP5 or whatever as a 'foregrip', not grasping it like the Nazis in the WWII flicks, but with their thumbs upside the left of the rifle and the fingers wrapped around the front, probably 'pulling' the rifle to their shoulder...

I think I have also seen a photo of an M1A or Garand shooter hold his rifle up with his weak hand supporting his strong hand...I think it was on this magazine article that came with my M1A....

Are these forms bad? For target shooting? Or just another way, but not THE way? Anyone?

(looking forward to gun skul in July when I finally have some formal carbine training)

TIA

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Andrew Wyatt
June 3, 2003, 01:34 PM
I use the magazine as a foregrip, with the thumb pressed against the dear of the handguard retaining ring on ar-15s.

i also use the magazine as a foregrip on mini-14s, and m-1a's


no functioning problems.

kumma
June 3, 2003, 01:56 PM
just finished putting together my first AR15, i used a Mega lower receiver. This receiver had a very course knurling or dimple pattern on the front of the mag well. i can only assume this is there for some sort of additional grip. havent shot it yet but it seems likely thats the reason for it.

craig

444
June 3, 2003, 02:05 PM
I guess you could do that, but I don't see what there is to be gained by it. I just tried it and it seems comfortable, but I can't see why I would do that as opposed to just holding the forearm in a conventional manner. I do have an AR with a vertical foregrip on a RAS II, but I have it mounted all the way at the end of the rail. I think it is an asset when shooting offhand at close range. Then with the foregrip all the way out, it allows me to grasp the foreend in a convential manner when firing from prone. My had sort of locks in between the foregrip and the mag well.

I find it very comfortable to shoot offhand with my hand just in front of the mag well. I am right handed and I find that if I put my weak hand, palm up with my thumb on the opposite side of the gun (thumb on weak side) and a 20 round mag resting on my forearm, I get a very steady, comfortable position.

garrettwc
June 3, 2003, 02:05 PM
Skunk, check out your SWAT magazine archives. There is an article by Pat Rogers that goes into detail about gripping the rifle that way.

SkaerE
June 3, 2003, 02:34 PM
it seems more ergonomic to grip an AR carbine at the mag well. its more natural for me then to twist my wrist around to hold the forearm "properly"

i personally wouldnt grip a rifle by its magazine, but as the magwell doenst move, then it seems fine. its hard to support a HB 20'' AR that way though.

Skunkabilly
June 3, 2003, 03:04 PM
garrettwc, which issue?

Correia
June 3, 2003, 03:22 PM
Skunk, there is no one WAY.

Try it. If it works for you then it works. If it doesn't then it doesn't.

Some of the best shooters in the country hold the rifle by the mag well, others hold it by the stock in all sorts of different ways. Who cares?

I shoot FALs by holding the mag exclusively. I hold AKs by the magazine while shooting close and fast stages, and I hold it by the forearm when I'm shooting at longer ranges. I don't hold my ARs by the mag well because I've found that if my hand drifts down and puts pressure on the mag then it can cause a jam.

Everybody is different. Experiment. Use what makes you faster/better.

Badger Arms
June 3, 2003, 04:25 PM
I hold the gun by the mag-well for a couple of reasons. In addition to 'just feeling right,' it allows me to lower the rifle more comfortably and use my right hand to do something... like scratch an itch, adjust my webbing, retrieve an object from a pocket, etc. It also allows me to pull the rifle in close. This grip is more versatile than using the fore-grip because you can use it from a rest also. This means that you won't have to alter your weak-hand gripping style when shooting over sandbags, barricade, car door, etc.

When I shoot CMP matches, I tuck my weak-arm elbow into my hip and allow the 30-round magazine to rest on my upturned palm. This gives me a steadier, skeletal support of the gun. The only downside to this is the uncomfortable curve my back is forced into but I think my muscles have gotten used to it now as it seems almost natural. For prone at the matches, I switch to a 20-round magazine with a single-loading insert and grasp the fore-arm. For all-around use and plinking, the mag-well gets the nod.

As noted earlier, the MEGA lowers have knurled magazine housings. This does make a difference, in case you were wondering, in how solid the gun feels.

I've heard it said that it's not good from a reliability standpoint to hold the gun by the magazine but I've never experienced a jam. Go figure, I might just be the lucky one.

Morgan
June 3, 2003, 05:24 PM
Skunk - July '02, page 26.

BTW, except for shots over 100m, I use the magwell.

garrettwc
June 3, 2003, 05:33 PM
Skunk - July '02, page 26.

BTW, except for shots over 100m, I use the magwell.

thanks for steppin' in for me Morgan. Got a little busy at work and didn't get a chance to look it up.

Skunk, if you don't have that issue anymore, it's one of the ones you can download in PDF from the website.

Skunkabilly
June 3, 2003, 06:54 PM
I only started reading (finally subscribed last week) SWAT since last December. I'm going to have to order the whole damn collection on PDF.

cool45auto
June 3, 2003, 07:21 PM
FWIW, I keep a 30 round magazine in my SKS and when I shoot it I grab the front of the mag with my left hand to hold it against my shoulder better.

craigz
June 3, 2003, 07:46 PM
What's a popo?

Steve Smith
June 3, 2003, 07:53 PM
What these guys have said is correct, but what you most likely saw with that M1A picture was a match shooter. It is a way of getting elevation on the gun without bringing your head down, as well as getting the weight to go straight down to your ribcage.

Skunk, when it comes to shooting rifles, there is no "poor form." Just use what works.

Schuey2002
June 3, 2003, 07:59 PM
What's a popo?
The police. ;)

Doc
June 3, 2003, 11:49 PM
Skunk:

First the pressure on the surefire to make it come on, now the mag well as hand grip, if you discover too many more of our secrets we will be forced to elimiante you to keep you from talking [SMIRK]

DOC

Soap
June 4, 2003, 10:57 AM
The AR magwell works as a nice grip for me. Thanks Mr. Rogers! :D It allows you to keep your elbows in nice and tight. Like Morgan, I only use it for short distances.

mete
June 4, 2003, 12:44 PM
The reason for using the mag well is that using the fore end will put forces on the barrel which change point of impact. Comfort and convenience is secondary.

Soap
June 4, 2003, 11:15 PM
BTW- The delta ring can get hot as :cuss:

Onslaught
June 5, 2003, 07:13 PM
I've seen pics (don't remember where) of a supposed "Special Forces" operator who's AR15 had a "ranger band" or some other tactical black rubber band gadget thingie around the magwell (through the inside of the trigger guard).

I assumed that it was for extra traction when gripping the magwell.

Andrew Wyatt
June 5, 2003, 07:48 PM
First the pressure on the surefire to make it come on, now the mag well as hand grip, if you discover too many more of our secrets we will be forced to elimiante you to keep you from talking



just you watch. when the elite ubertactical warrior skunks come obiveground to subdue the entire human race, they'll have one paw on the magazine well, putting pressure on the side of their surefires to turn them on.


we're all doomed.

bad_dad_brad
June 8, 2003, 02:57 PM
I grasp the mag well of my AR15 as descibed for two reasons.

1. Arthritis in my left wrist makes shooting, supporting the rifle's (any rifle) fore grip the traditional way, painful.

2. I can steady and support the AR15 in this manner by welding my left upper arm flat to my torso. Works good - again, for me.

I have seen some shooters support their semi-auto rifles by placing the bottom of the mag in the palm of the left hand.

I am of smallish stature and the AR15 fits me like a glove - I love it - and rarely shoot anything else anymore. Nose just a smidgen behind the charging handle and I am good to go!

Use what works for you. Experiment.

Badger Arms
June 8, 2003, 03:30 PM
Funny, I have arthritis in my RIGHT hand and my RIGHT ankle that bother me when I'm shooting. I've learned to shoot my handguns left handed, but I'm still not as good with them from that side. It makes shooting a revolver LOTS easier as they were designed for lefties. (Sam Colt and Bill Ruger were both lefties)

Peetmoss
June 8, 2003, 05:58 PM
I used gripped the mag today in my match for my awfull hand. It did allow me to get my elbow planted in my ribcage and the rifle were it needed to be. Not that it helped me much though I shot a 50 :mad:

Onslaught
June 8, 2003, 06:18 PM
It makes shooting a revolver LOTS easier as they were designed for lefties. (Sam Colt and Bill Ruger were both lefties)
Very interesting info... I assume you mean Single Action revolvers?

I'm left handed, and have indeed noticed that SA revolvers are quite Lefty-friendly with that loading trap-door on the right side of the pistol...

Modern DA's aren't so friendly though...

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