Help with FAL Receiver ID

Local pawn shop has a FAL for sale for $800 w/ 10 mags. Not sure on the reciever manufacturer though. I am unfamiliar with FAL details but the price, so far, seems pretty reasonable. The receiver states:

IMBEL (w/logo) Fabrica De Itajubk(a) - Brasil, Pacific Armament Corp - Modesto, CA and in tiny print: Milled by O.A.I.

Can anyone advise if this is a good FAL receiver? Good price? I am concerned as it is stamped in small print "Milled by O.A.I." but it's an IMBEL.

Any info would be great. Thanks.

if its a gear logo, then its an Imbel...


as far as the 10 mags...they are a crap shoot...so to speak...roll the dice. :)


is the barrel bi-pod cut? what kind of furniture? is it a full metric or a real franken-fal and a metric/inch combo?

I have seen prices for these range from 600 to 2100 dollars for one at the gunshow today that recieved an audible laugh from me and a dirty look from the vender.

for the most part...it would be worth trying to get him down a bit...mebbe to 650-700 IMO....this is sight unseen of course...

D

It has a stock bipod installed with a pictanny scope rail too. They were asking $900 and came down to $800. Furniture is perfect - no scratches - typical black synthetic type. As far as a Franken-fal, I didn't really have the opportunity to inspect it to that detail - nor would I honestly know what to look for. It was chained to the wall but I was able to handle it and turn it side to side to write down the receiver info.

Sounds like a good receiver then. I was a bit concerned when it had O.A.I. on it.

I'm going to a gun show today in Greensboro, I'll chek to see if what they are going for there. $800 seems reasonable to me due to the prices I see them going for on Gunsamerica.com and gunbroker.com


BW

If it was built on an IMBEL reciever that means it was built before the BATFE mandated US made recievers & bbls to be Sec. 922(r) compliant on non-sporting rifles built from imported parts. If the rifle is in good shape and the bore is good the price might be a bit high right now. However, because of IMBEL reciever the value will only increase. If the mags are 20 rounders in good shape figure $5 to $15 each, adding $50 to $150 value. I love the FAL design but the reciever length leads to poor rifle fit for my short arms. :(

Could it possibly have said CAI instead of OAI? Century Arms International assembled many FALs with Imbel receivers.The receivers are excellent.

I appologize...should have been a bit more specific about what to look for as far as the inch parts goes...

biggest and most glaring part would be the bolt carrier...it should have sand-cuts in the bolt carrier (the part thats visible on the ejector port) there will be diagonal cuts along the carrier. The brits did this to help when in dirty/sandy conditions.

second part would be the magazine lug recess in the bottom of the reciever...the inch would have a rather large, square cut opening. a Metric will have a half-hemispherical cut...of course, I might be describing this part of it wrong...kinda like a half-moon...flat side down.


Hope this helps!
D

I think one of the deciding factors for me to get it is that just finding one around is pretty difficult. The gun show today had 2. One for $600 with a beat up Enterprise receiver and the other into the $1K price range. I figure the mags are worth $50 so I figure I get it for $750. Prices are outrageous for these on the auction sites, none of which were below $1000 (3 auction sites were checked).

Thanks for the info. I'll have to go back and check on the metric vs. inch. I didn't see any parts that would indicate that it had US made parts, so I suspect ya'll are right saying it is pre-922r.

Imbel very good - Entreprise, Vulcan and Hesse very bad. $800 is somewhat reasonable - not a bargain by any means, but if she shoots straight and is reliable...

Okay. I got it. $750 + Tax ($800 out the door) w/ 10 mags. According to what I've read it's a metric (has the half moon in the mag holder and no cuts in the bolt carrier). Referencing my earlier post: it doesn't say "Milled by O.A.I.", it says, "Assembled by O.A.I.". Dang print is so small I can't hardly read it.

I think the pawn shop put down the wrong serial number on the 4473 form. My receipt shows the serial number of the lower receiver 572XX, and not the serial number on the upper Gear IMBEL receiver of PAC36XX. Am I correct in my belief that the upper receiver serial # is the actual one?

Here's some camera-phone pics (sorry, on travel right now and don't have a better camera).

None of the serial numbers match (i.e., bolt, bolt carrier, receiver, etc). My best estimates is that it is a O.A.I. build on an IMBEL receiver. Not sure if it is required to have compliance parts or not - anyone know how I can tell? Because I sure don't see any "Made in USA" stamped anywhere.

Thanks in advance.

Ahhhh, that's a bit of a better price - and yes, the upper receiver should be the correct serial-number recorded on the form.

I still think you have a CAI-assembled metric rifle (Century Arms International). Looks like Austrian STG58-style hanguards, Brit-style flash-hider, Imbel type 3 upper receiver and it looks like a type 2 lower receiver...

Compliance parts - eish, that's a rough question because a lot of the local manufacturers don't put "Made in the USA" on their stuff. Buy some USA-made magazines because that's 3 compliance-parts right there (floorplate, body and follower).

Go to GunPartsGuy (James) (http://estore.websitepros.com/832529/StoreFront.bok) and check out the "US Made 922R Compliant Parts" section - low prices, free shipping and great service. He'll even answer your questions over the phone because he's passionate about the FAL ;)

Now you need to join falfiles.com as well :evil:

Thanks for such a fast reply AndyC.

I guess I was right that the pawn shop made a boo boo on the 4473 transfer form. Oh well. Pretty good deal, "Um, would you take $800?" Ok. "Um, would you take $800 'out-the-door'". Ok. I should've asked her for a date - my luck was running pretty good. According to the store owner it had been in the their shop for 3 months, 6 weeks of which was in the safe being held for a cop who decided not to buy it.

Wow - I didn't think it would be such a multi-national firearm. Yeah, the OAI may be CAI but its really too small to see right now. I'll have to get a magnifying glass to check it out.

One more question, the pin that holds my trigger in place sticks out on the right side farther than the other pins, about 1/8 inch. And if I pull it, it comes right out. Is this suppose to be like that? It kind of looks like the pin should go in further.

BTW - I joined the FALfiles today. :p Thanks for the tips and the help. I am now officially a "have" and not a "have not". Can't wait to take it to the range and see the looks on others faces shooting the Remchesterbys.

No, that pin shouldn't just pull out like that - there's a locking plate inside the lower receiver (at the right-hand side if looking from the butt towards the front) which locks the hammer pin as well as the trigger pin in place - it looks like a little wrench in shape.

Have a look at this (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175021) series of pics on falfiles - it shows how to disassemble the whole trigger-mechanism.

I have an IMBEL and I really love it. I took off the bipod to lighten it up a bit.

Great post for help. I'll have to disassemble and see if I can fix it. But it doesn't look like the beveled part of the pin will fit in the hole. Pic below:

Yeah, that's the trigger pin - it should fit fairly tightly, but I suspect that the locking plate inside is in the way, preventing the pin from going in all the way. You'll have to disassemble it to check, but follow those instructions and you'll see that it's really simple ;)

Edit: top of the red line points to the notch in the locking-plate which snaps into the thin part of the trigger-pin, locking it in place:

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/4059/tpr018ae1.jpg

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/4039/tpr022jz0.jpg

Dude - you are my hero! LOL. Thanks.

Holy Cow! Fixed in 5 minutes!

Glad to help ;)

Very nice aquisition, Black Wolf. :)

Welcome to the ranks.


D

Thank you. I'm new to FALs so obviously have a few questions. I usually hangout at the surplusrifle.com forum. Got a few milsurps and I figure this would be my ultimate addition to my collection of military surplus rifles.

Regarding this rifle, I am going to assume that it is a pre-ban build because it is built on an Imbel receiver with no apparent US parts, combined with the fact it shows assembled by O.A.I. (or possibly C.A.I) whom I would doubt build it without compliance parts. If that is the case being pre-ban, I feel that it is more valuable without having US parts in it - at least more valuable to me.

I was a little disappointed in the fact that it appears to have parts from various countries. However, by the same token, the parts that are on there are ironically exactly what I wanted when I was dreaming about buying one. I really wanted a good receiver (got it with an Imbel), wanted a bipod (got it), wanted the long thin muzzle break (got it), wanted unscratched lower receiver (got it), wanted a nice unscratched buttstock (got it). Then, as a plus, it came with 10 mags (savings right there), a sling (no biggy but it was free), and it has a pictanny scope mount on it (nice addition, sure would still like to have the original though). So, not sure what these are going for on the open market, but this one for $750 is my idea of a great purchase; especially since I couldn't build one for that price and the fact these things aren't just sitting around every gun store like a remchesterby.

When I get home I'll post some better pics.

Part of the fun is to build one yourself, trying to recreate something that was used in war-time. Currently the "baby-barf" Rhodesian camo style FAL's are popular amongst some folks ;)

pictanny scope mount on it (nice addition, sure would still like to have the original though).

Black Wolf, PM me your address and I'll send you a standard topcover. It may not match exact, 'cause I think mine are refinished, but hey, your rifle was refinished anyway...

I'd guess your topcover is a FAC/Badger? model.

It looks kinda like you have the Tapco style scope mount/cover. The DSA cover like I have has a few more screws, and of course their logo. :rolleyes:


have you shot it yet?

When you disassemble the gas system, be sure to put the gas plug back in properly...it has two positions, one for standard use and one for launching rifle grenades...this position basically turns your neat, new rifle into a single shot.

D

Looks like the same type of scope cover I used. Alternate tightening on the
hex, ie take turns going all the way around and don't just focus on one at a
time, and it should stay tight. Even with my gas port all the way open and a
buffer installed, my recoil has been so harsh as to break some scopes.

You may want to go with the standard top cover the THRer offered you and
stick with the iron sights.

Kfranz - thanks, PM sent.

db_tanker - nope, haven't shot it yet. I'll be taking her out on Friday to blast away.

The gas systems and valve is similar to the SKS 59/66 - if you don't have it in the correct position, it makes it a single shot. At first sight it looks intimidating, however after working with the rifle a bit it's not to complicated.

A friend of mine says its a STG kit with an Imbel receiver.


Thanks everyone for the help - I am just really pleased with everyone's interest and as well as the quality of the gun.

The gas-plug should be turned with the "A" upwards - if the "G" is upwards, that's the grenade-setting and will definitely make your rifle a single-shot ;)

I just picked up my first FAL - an early Century build (made in Canada, it says) that I surmise has an L1A1 parts kit on a South American metric lower. So far, I'm really diggin' this FAL thing - it's accurate, relatively soft shooting, and all that good stuff. Naturally, I have a few questions:

The muzzle has a small slot in it on the bottom, cut at an angle - is this normal? What's it for?
Is the barrel chrome-lined or standard carbon steel?
Who makes alternative rear sights - the little flip up thingee on this rifle has the worlds smallest aperture and I'd prefer a rear aperture with a sun shield.

To me the pics of the original rifle appear to be a frankenfal . The flash suppressor and cocking handle at least appear to be inch . If the reciever is metric cut then its a mish mash , but hey that prob will not hurt how it shoots , fal's are pretty consistant and robust .

"rbernie I just picked up my first FAL - an early Century build (made in Canada, it says) that I surmise has an L1A1 parts kit on a South American metric lower. So far, I'm really diggin' this FAL thing - it's accurate, relatively soft shooting, and all that good stuff. Naturally, I have a few questions:
The muzzle has a small slot in it on the bottom, cut at an angle - is this normal? What's it for?
Is the barrel chrome-lined or standard carbon steel?
Who makes alternative rear sights - the little flip up thingee on this rifle has the worlds smallest aperture and I'd prefer a rear aperture with a sun shield. "

You have a Enfield lower receiver with flip-up rear sights. The barrel is neutered, meaning the threading was cut off for compliance. Check the feeding ramp, is it a "w" ramp, looks like a "w" which is reliable, or a early round ramp which has feeding problems. CAI is not extremely accurate but works, I get 6-8 inch groups at 100 yards.

6-8 inches? Ouch

RBernie, try http://www.dsarms.com

Feed ramp is a W, and it shoots like a house a'fire - no complaints at all. If it's an Enfield lower - is it still metric? The metric mags that came with it are a relatively tight fit but seem to work just fine....

rbernie,

The good thing about the inch pattern rifles is that they will accept either inch or metric mags.

the inch mags have a rather large lug spot-welded on the front of the mag, where the metrics have a die-cut dimple...both will fit into the inch pattern recess...but not into the metric recess.

My first "FAL" type rifle was a Century L1A1 built on a Lithgow parts kit. VERY nice shooter. :) CAI used an Imbel metric reciever but didn't make a single diffrence in how it ran... one of those I shouldn't have gotten rid of and now kicking myself for it :banghead:

rbernie, many(most?) of those Made in Canada Century rifles were commonwealth kits built on Imbel inch cut receivers, although all that I've seen have been cut for metric mags.

Will this sight bolt on to my lower without issue? Is there some difference betwen metric and inch lowers that make the sight dovetails different somehow?

http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=110C
http://www.dsarms.com/images/110C.jpg

CAI FAL has metric pattern type III receiver mated to inch pattern enfield receiver, that is why your FAL accepts metric but not inch. A freak of nature, in a way. :neener:

Rbernie, yes, it'll fit, but you may need a higher front-sight post to make up for having a higher rear-sight.

Metric front sights are measured in terms of dots (they put actual dots on the round horizontal plate to indicate which height it is):

No dot is 3.0mm tall
1-dot is 3.65mm tall
2-dot is 4.3mm tall
3-dot is 4.95mm tall
4-dot is 5.6mm tall

Inch front sights - dunno, I think they just screw up and down.

Congradulation on you FAL Black Wolf. I build my first IMBEL kit on a DSArms receiver last year. Make sure to come back and give us a range report when you have a chance to use it.

Ok my fellow FALs. Here's some better photos I took today. I have learned that it is a IMBEL Gear Logo Upper on a STG kit. DSA sells the STG kit for $495! Wow! The TAPCO scope mount sells for $85 plus the 10 Mags at about $80. Here's my summary of the deal.

I paid $750 not incl. tax. They were asking $900! A build would cost me this:

STG Kit - $510 w/shipping ($495 at DSA)
TAPCO scope mount - $95 w/shipping
Compliance Parts - $100 (a total guess)
IMBEL receiver - ($400? - I heard that is about what they are going for).
10 Mags - $80 (costing about $8 - $15 each)
Total - Almost $1200
AND I GOT IT FOR $750!!! :D DEAL OR NO DEAL?

I'm going to the range today. A little chilly out - but so what.

MUCH better photo's...and you got a very good deal IMO.

Enjoy it!


And you might want to invest in a brass catcher. :)

D

If it's an STG kit, you did extremely well - let us know how she shoots :D

Well, was gonna' go to the range this weekend but it was closed due to weather. :mad:

However, I did make it to a gun show in Charlotte, NC and picked me up a receiver cover for $10. Much easier to clean the weapon with the "stock" receiver cover versus the TAPCO Pictanny rail mount. I figure since I don't have a scope for it yet, I might as well just take it off.