[firestar]

These are a hot item that some dealers can't seem to keep in stock (unless they charge a few hundred more than it is supposed to be:cuss: ). Why then, aren't more makers making small and light 9mms? Can't they see the winds of change? Even the fat Glock 26 and 27 are big sellers and they are HUGE compared to the Kahr.

I want more guns like the PM9 to choose from! I am not going to pay the $600+ that they are getting for these things. How hard is it to make a decent 9mm sub-compact for less than $400?

[arinvolvo]

Um, because the frames warp?:neener:

[WhoKnowsWho]

With the PM9 available, I was always stuck on getting a Glock 26 later, but the Kahr is looking nicer now.

Too many choices, not enough money. The options out there are plenty.

[firestar]

Um, because the frames warp?

That is one of the reasons I am not running out to buy one yet. If other companies were jumping on this trend, we would have a selection of compact 9mms to choose from instead of just the PM9.

[mini14jac]

Well, I may be the oddball, but I've got a PM9 that doesn't have a warped frame. :rolleyes:

Every time I pick up this gun, I am amazed.
It will probably have some kind of problem some day, (it is a machine, after all) but right now it rocks.
Small, light, accurate, and reliable.
Everything an Airweight is, and shootable to boot.
It was $550, and I'm not thrilled about that price, but there's not much competition right now.
(Side note: Around here, a Kahr does not hold it's resale value. My MK9 was around $490 new, if memory serves. $350 was the best trade-in price on my PM9. I'll be glad when they get a little more name recognition.)

I wouldn't be surprised to see KelTec come out with a single stack 9. I really expect it, but I don't have any inside info.
They resisted the idea of a .380 for years, but they want to make a buck just like everybody else.

Other than NAA, and Seecamp, I can't think of a lot of other manufacturers that are actually interested in the concealable gun market.
(Other than Titanium and Scandium revolvers.)

Taurus makes "compact" guns, but the sub-compact market still has a lot of room for innovation, in my opinion.

And, I'm with Blackhawk:
I hope Rohrbaugh becomes the next Kahr!

[22luvr]

The more pricey the price tag. There is a PM9 at my favorite gun store going for $599 (yikes!) I simply cannot confidently conceal any snubby in-the-pocket full-time so it has to be an autoloaderof some sort.

Rohrbaugh? It's just the skeptic in me but I'll be amazed if they ever produce one of these. What has it been? Three years since they went public? I'm never going to pay $800-900 for any handgun anyway.

If anyone can produce the definitive light, thin, AFFORDABLE pocket 9 mm, it will be Kel-Tec. I'm going to buy one of their new P-3AT's as an interim pocket gun until they come up with that affordable pocket nine.

[Greybeard]

It seems like I read somewhere that the guy who designed the Kahr did so in order to fill a niche that no one else had. And obviously did a pretty good job at it.

I wanted the PM9 with factory night sights and had to wait a couple or three weeks a few months back for a big dealer in Austin to get one in to ship to me. With sales tax, shipping and transfer fee, it busted $700! But the little gun is pretty much what I expected.

IMHO, Mr. Gaston and Co. missed the boat bigtime - in the US market anyway - for the single-stack niche that Kahr is filling.

' Had a lady student in NRA class a few weeks back who was in the market for a little semi and settled for Bersa Thunder .380, again, due primarily to the current price of the Glocks and Kahrs. But, then the Bersa, in my view, is in a different leage - yet possibly filling a similar niche.

The scary part of that deal is that my daughter (who will be getting her first apartment next fall) was in the same class and has since been shooting several of my handguns, including the PM9 ... "Dad, I really do like THIS one ..." :eek:

[willyjixx]

i bought a Bersa thunder 380 as my second pistol! my first was a used S&W 915 an that was fine but i wanted somthing else. so i saw a bersa in a shop one day an picked it up for a $200 with 2 mags an 40 rds of hydra-shock. NIB. turned out to be a great little pistol. that was over 5 years ago an ive never had a problem with it (cosmetically or mechanically) short of a jam here an there that was easily fixed with immediate action. IMHO it is a great "Budget" gun. an easy on the wallet as far as ammo prices. it is also a main carry pistol an i find it easily concealable an not to bulky or heavy. the only problem is carring an extra mag. there too slender so dont quiet fit most mag pouches an the leathermen case trick got old.

[Handy]

One thing to consider is the Kahr patent on the offset feedramp/locking surface. This might not seem like a big deal, but it is the main reason the guns are so narrow. Glock, for instance, would be hard pressed to get their 9/40 slides much narrower, and at their current width, there's no reason to make a 9mm single stack.

The failed Vektor CP1 was a step in the right direction: If it hadn't been recalled for the safety issue, it might have popularized the P7 gas system in lower cost autos. That system would be ideal for a small, thin and light 9mm compact. (Yeah, there's the Heritage, too. But that thing is kinda junky/fugly, doing little for the cause.)

[concerned citizen]

Others have tried, colt probally could have made the most succesfull run against kahr with there alloy frame pocketnine in 1999 early 2000, kahr sued them for patient infridgement and colts management went down the tubes shortly thereafter.

Smith&Wesson could have also been a player with the SW9M a few years ago, but due to really poor market research tried to compete with the lorcins of the world and made it a POS (same with there SW380) The 9mm smith would have been sweet if it had a stainless slide with low mount NOVAKS and a take down lever instead of a pin you had to punch out IMOP.

I have two pm9's the one I pocketcarry has NOVAK nightsites I feal any smaller you are giving up to much shootability / capacity for me its the perfect carry piece.

My quest for the perfect pocket holster hopefully will end with this www.jsholsters.com
I like the outer flap idea to completely elimiate any gun print, the grip frame is what gives the gun its profile in your pocket..

:cool:

[gbelleh]

My PM9 also rocks! No warping. If I could carry concealed, it would be with me always.

[MMcCall]

Why do you buy a PM9 if you can't carry concealed?

Honest question, I personally would go for a larger model if it was just a range/house gun.

[gbelleh]

MMcCall,
I plan to be able to carry soon. But, even if I couldn't, I collect many guns that I don't necessarily have a need for. I liked it, and I bought it. It's been a good little gun and when I can carry (either when I move in a year, or if my state passes a CCW law before then) I'll have several CCW-ready guns to choose from.

I have several larger home defense guns too. The more the merrier! :D

[NJ3]

I'll admit my PM9 has had it's share of problems, but a warped frame has not been one of them. :rolleyes:

I also would like to see Kel Tec come out with a P32 based 9 mm, something everyone could afford.

If Glock could make a PM9 sized 9 mm I' buy the first one I could get my hands on. My experience with Glocks has been great.

[jdmb03]

I got lucky. I recently picked up a LNIB Kahr K40 w/ night sights for $395. Kahr's are great guns.

[CleverNickname]

I liked my first PM9 so much, I bought a second one...

[concerned citizen]

:cool:

Good to see i'm not the only one that has two!

[MMcCall]

Good reasons all around, I was just curious. "Because I wanted it!" is always a perfectly reasonable line! :)

[HLG]

concerned citizen
Do they make a JS holster for the PM9?. It wasn't listed as an option on the link you gave us.

[concerned citizen]

HLG... go down towards the bottom of the page and there is a link to order and view the js pocketholster for pocket 380's and 9mm's.
The mk/pm 9 is listed there.

[Stay Low]

why shoot a pocket carry pistol like a PM 9 enough to warp the frame? Buy it, break it in, load it with reliable carry ammo, put it in your pocket or holster and forget it til needed. Want a range gun? Get a Glock 34 or something to run thousands of rounds thru. What do i know...

[mini14jac]

The only "warped frame" issue that I'm aware of with the PM9s is cosmetic.
The frame appears to be concave near the takedown pin.
It doesn't affect performance, or, in my opinon, hurt the looks of the piece.

The PM9 should be able to stand up to as many rounds as a Glock. They are of very similar construction.
Time will tell........

concerned citizen,
I agree about SW9M.
I had one, and it was a big seller for S&W.
Until they announced that it was disposable! :confused: :eek: :banghead: :fire: :cuss:

I wouldn't have kept it anyway. That takedown procedure was a real turnoff.
But, mine worked, was shootable, and reasonably accurate, given the guttersnipe "sights".

[Safety First]

What do you guys thinkabout the Colt Pocketlite .380? I am eyeing that as a possible pocket gun in the near future..and what is a fair price for lnib?

[Alan Fud]

Posted by 22luvr: " ... Rohrbaugh? It's just the skeptic in me but I'll be amazed if they ever produce one of these. What has it been? Three years since they went public? ... " You may very well have a point. I've been checking their website because I have one on order and there have been no updates. For something that is due out this month, I would think that they would have some additional info on their website by now with some extra photos to see what a final production gun will look like.

[concerned citizen]

I am a huge fan of the little colt 380's. I have a all stainless full custom SM&A mustang 380 and a pony pocketlite.

The pony has only has a stainless guide rod and a complete spring replacement with wolff springs.

Wolff makes a replacement hammer spring for the pony that is a must have. I do not have a trigger weight scale but I swear the pull is reduced from what feals like 16-20lbs factory to about 8-10.

I have pocketcarried the pony countless hours over the last few years, The anodizing on the alloy frame is worn and a little ugly but other than that it has funtiond 100% and looks new inside, it has about 500rds through it. The pony's are more difficult to find than the mustangs and range in price from $425.00- 600.00.
I think there are pony's on gunbroker and gunsamerica currently.

For a carry load I like rem. goldensaber 102g jhp's, I would love to see the new corbon pow-r-ball in 380acp though, I use the pow-r-ball load in 9mm in my pm9.

:)

[Texas Bob]

:fire: Younger people seem to forget that the '68 Gun Control Act is still in effect. This mandated that a "pistol" had to be so "big" in ht, wt, & width and had a "point" value(target sights or not) or it could not be "imported" into the USA. This is why the Glock catalouge says of the .380 they produce,"not for sale in the US.":banghead:

[tex_n_cal]

STI makes a model, I believe called an LS9, which is a narrow version of the 1911. IIRC it is almost 1/4" narrower than a 1911, sold only in 9mm.

Sounds like a hell of a deal to me, pity I can't get one in CA!

[G Man.40]

Why aren't there more guns like the Kahr PM9?

Because they are being out gunned by the Glocks!... :neener:

[WhoKnowsWho]

Just found and handled a PM9 today for the first time.

I liked it a lot, felt less like a brick than the G26, but I did fire the G26 quite well that one time I rented it.

Only thing I didn't like was the price, $656 for the Stainless, $596 for the Black Diamond one.

I think I need to wait a little while more for the prices to get out of the clouds, or get one through gun broker.

[concerned citizen]

Those price's are very high unless they both had night sites.

Even with NS The stainless is still on the high end.

[twolf]

When I got my FFL, I thought the dealers around me were bad. If you buy one from them, make sure they kiss you and tell you that they love you because they are definitely putting it to you. I heard a couple of you talking about the Rohrbaugh, how much did it cost you if you don't mind me asking. This is the first time that I have heard about it. It looks like an impressive weapon. I can give you prices on it if you want and also give you the name of a couple good guys in your neck of the woods that should be able to give you a better deal.

[teombe]

be so "big" in ht, wt, & width and had a "point" value(target sights or not) or it could not be "imported" into the USA. This is why the Glock catalouge says of the .380 they produce,"not for sale in the US."


I read somewhere that if Glock made a "slim 9" roughly the size of a G26, except 1" thick, it would pass the BATF point system pretty easily. The new extractor design, "target trigger, and the internal lock allow Glocks to have higher import point values than they had before. Heck, they could probably import the Glock 25 if they updated it, but it makes as much sense now as it did then. No one wants a .380 the size of a Glock 26.

[twolf]

Another reason the glock 18 is not importable except for law enforcement is it is fully automatic hence the 30 round clip. I do not like the .380 caliber but God that would be fun.

"What are you shootin?"

"I've got a .380"

"Well I got the new 41.5 caliber, what can yours do that mine can't?"

BRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

:evil: :what: