I have heard nothing but wonderful things about the Remington 5R barrel. I had considered purchasing a Remington 700PSS in .308 to get myself a nice rifle. I was advised on doing this, and I think it is a great plan:
Purchase a Remington 700 in .308 but get something other than the PSS. Get something with a stainless action, learn to shoot it, then replace the barrel with a 5R barrel.
Do I have the idea correct that with a short action, I can choose any short action barrel for the Remington 700, and it is the barrel that denotes the cartridge and not the action?
Also, any input on 5R barrel purchasing would be helpful. Where to buy, how much to pay, etc?
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June 4, 2003, 07:19 AM
"Do I have the idea correct that with a short action, I can choose any short action barrel for the Remington 700,"
Short or long. All that really matters is that the threading of the barrel match that of the action. After that it's the fit of the barrel in the forearm of the stock.
"...and it is the barrel that denotes the cartridge and not the action?"
Well, yeah, as long as the bolt face and the extractor match the base of the cartridge case.
June 4, 2003, 09:41 AM
One thing to clear up.
A "5R" barrel is not a Remington product.
They are made by "Boots" Obermeyer and one will have to be fitted to your Remington action by a darned competent riflesmith to get the most good out of it. The trademark "5R" stands for Five groove, Russian form rifling, as used (with 4 grooves) in the AK 74, but developed long ago and known then as trough-shaped rifling. They are not real common, he does not have a high production rate. There are other good barrelmakers with loyal followings in serious target shooting, shops like Kreiger, Lilja, Schneider, Hart, Badger, Pac-Nor, Shilen, and still good old Douglas. Probably others I don't recall.
Take care of that factory barrel. It will probably do quite well and last for several thousand shots if you take care of it. An Obermeyer or other big name match barrel will cost, with installation, about as much as you pay for the rifle in the first place. Take Real good care of that one. A friend of mine is into Long Range competition and he does NOT plink with his Hart-barreled target rifle, it only gets out when score is being kept and it really matters. I figure one match is eating at least 2% of his barrel's accuracy life.
Obermeyer Rifle Barrels
23122 60th Street
Bristol, WI 53104
Match-grade cut-rifled barrel blanks.
June 4, 2003, 02:43 PM
Remington was offering factory 5R rifles there for awhile but they were Stainless VS type 308s. I don't think they made any long action Sendero types. I personally have seen 2 of the stainless Remington 5R rifles and they looked well done but then that's only in the shop and not out shooting it on the range. Who knows what type of throat was chambered on that 5R barrel and from what I hear THAT is where the real care should be given, call up George Gardner of GA Precision and maybe ask him what he thinks about how 5R chamberings should be done and whether or not Remington is doing it right. http://www.gaprecision.net/
I know Obermeyer makes 5R type barrels but I was under the impression that Mike Rock also makes 5R barrels and Remington(though entirely possible Remington outsources for their 5R barrels) makes a very small amount of them as well. This is what I gather from a few forums that are very dedicated to the rifles that George Gardner builds with some people being huge fans of the 5R barrels.
Never heard of the "R" in the 5R being for "Russian", it was always explained to me as standing for "Radiused" where the hard sharp edges from the rifling were removed so that they were more rounded in profile than square.
June 4, 2003, 03:00 PM
I went out to the Remington site and all they say about their barrels is that they are hammer forged for the BDL/VS/VLS/Sendero, fluted or plain. They do mention 5R rifling for the Model 40X and the M-24 Military, so I assume they would mention it for the other heavy barrel Rems if it were offered.
June 4, 2003, 03:32 PM
That's why it was so "special" that they were turning out 5R barrels.
It could have been a very limited run but they are in fact out there. Local shop got in the 2 that I mentioned and a member of AR15.com was so happy that they got a 5R 700 that they took pictures of the end of their Remington box to prove it.
There is such a critter, not pulling your leg. I just don't know how limited or hard to get a hold of it is, check with some of the larger distributors maybe.
June 4, 2003, 04:48 PM
Very interesting, I did a little searching and reading and got updated.
Yes, Rock makes 5R barrels, doesn't say how, just that they are "hand lapped." Cut or button, most likely.
Yes, Remington made some 5R barrels for the M24 government contract, but by hammer forging. No mention in that article of commercial guns, but if they had the tooling, why not?
GA Precision charges $295 for a new barrel, presumably a Rock. They don't just screw it in, they true the action throughout and chamber the barrel to their specs, for another $350. So like I said, Squirrelnuts should get the most out of his factory barrel and take very good care of a first class replacement.
June 4, 2003, 06:18 PM
One more quick comment. If you are wanting to get a heavy barrel rifle, or at least end up with a heavy barrel rifle, then if you get a sporter weight rifle now, your stock will need to be inletted quite a bit when the heavy barrel is installed later.
And the PSS/Police barrel is no different than the barrel that comes with the 700VS. Just the different stock. The Police has a wider forend and a palm swell on the pistol grip whereas the 700VS do not. Also, I am of the understanding that none of the PSS/Police rifles have the new lock that the newer 700s are coming with if that makes any difference to you.
Around here, the Police is only about $60 more than the VS. Money will spent in my opinion as I like the stock and would rather not have the lock as have it. And unless you're a pretty experienced rifleman, you might be surprised how well the factory rifle/barrel will shoot for you. If you can't hold a very accurate rifle to less than 1" at 100 yards with reasonable consistancy, the factory barrel is probably plenty. ;)
Good luck. :)
June 4, 2003, 11:03 PM
True enough that the PSS rifles don't have the stupid little politically correct lock built into the shroud.
As for barrels, only the LTRs are being built with a unique barrel. The longer 26 inch barreled PSS rifles do in fact share their tubes with those of the VS/Sendero rifles.
Finish on the PSS is a parkarized finish as opposed to the baked on epoxy type finish on the VS/Sendero.
I've got a PSS and I'm starting to grow accustomed to the stock but I still like the VS/Sendero stocks more, when I have my 300WinMag rebuilt one of these days I'm gonna sell the PSS stock off to help offset the costs of a McMillian A3 stock. People seem to perfer the PSS stocks and will pay some what of a premium for them.
If a person could get a PSS for only 60 or so dollars more than a VS/Sendero, I could see it as being worth it as well. Local shops around here usually want upwards of an additional 150 though for a PSS. Fortunately I got my 300WinMag PSS for 600 dollars shipped with rings/bases and only 100 rounds through it, been a subMOA performer with just my starting handloads and those handloads are beating out what Federal Gold Medal 190grainers are capable of.
Something to note, supposedly some of the 700 Police rifles came out with a 5R barrel LONG ago back when the things were first starting to be introduced but such is not the case anymore. They are really limited in quanity, probably more so than the more recent run of stainless 5R 308s.
June 11, 2003, 04:58 AM
Boots Obermeyer developed 5R rifling as a variant of the Russian lands form. He taught Mike Rock how to cut 5R rifling when Rock was apprenticing for him.
When Remington was developing the M24, 5R rifling was spec'd and Mike Rock provided the early barrels. What transpired next is the subject of contention. Some say Mike Rock was contracted for but was unable to deliver on the production barrels due to "personal problems". Others say that Rock's role was to provide the developmental barrels ONLY from the beginning. Whichever is the case, Remington worked out how to hammer forge 5R rifling for the M24 and now occasionally release barrels for other applications.
What's the benefits? Supposedly less deformation of the bullet jacket. Better gas seal.
An interesting aside. Obermeyer is supplying 5R barrels for Knight Arms for use in the SR25's supplied to the Military.
June 11, 2003, 12:59 PM
I've seen that both Obermeyer and Remington have provided 5R barrels to Knights. The Biggerhammer.net guys would be more knowledgable on the runs or dates changes in barrels were made.
One thing I have to wonder about 5R barrels, how much easier are they to clean? Seems like one of the big bonuses to me if you don't have those sharp 90degree corners to hog out material from the bullet jacket and have it guilded to the barrel.
Probably an advantage akin to the polygonal type rifling that HK used for the PSG1.