[beretta9]

I bought a 54cal T/C Hawkin a few years ago. Have only fired it about 30 times, but want to get into it more. I read an article awhile back about if a known, consistant ramrod pressure would produce better results than "guessing". They did the test using 40lbs with some device vs hand pressure. The 40 lb test did a lot better than hand pressure. I did a search and found nothing, so am asking how to get a consistant pressure by hand and how much? I have been pushing the ball down until it hits bottom then giving another push.

[1911 guy]

First, figure out what powder, patch and ball/bullet you'll be using. Load the rifle and make a mark with a permenant marker or ink pen at the muzzle, after ramming it home. Ram home to this mark every time. A bit more accuracy may or may not be wrung from the load by playing with the pressure, but having the same pressure every time removes a variable. I do this with both my black powder rifles, a .50 and a .36.

The device used by benchrest shooters is a spring loaded affair that "gives" under an adjustable amount of pressure, you can set the "give" to forty pounds, for example, or thirty five.

I also make an "unloaded" mark on my rods. Take the rifle when you are sure it's completely empty, and make an identical notch or mark at the muzzle. This has saved me from dryballing a few times.

[arcticap]

How much pressure can depend on the powder type and granulation being used, as well as characteristics of the individual and the gun.
777 requires less, Pyrodex requires more and black powder is a puzzle of sorts. It gets more velocity from higher compression, but it's more difficult for an individual to judge higher compression than lower compression, so what often results from using higher compression is a greater deviation in velocity and hence, lesser accuracy.
Fine grained powders shouldn't require quite as much ramming pressure since there's not as much air trapped in between the grains of powder needing to be removed by compression. That's one reason why applying the same amount of ramming pressure while switching powders can actually improve accuracy more than by trying to alter the amount of pressure applied.
Consistency is always important, but there's so many other accuracy robbing variables to consider, that all anyone can do is to try their best experimenting with their individual gun and methods to see if they can come up with a personal formula for success, while enjoying themselves by simply having fun trying and makin' lot's of smoke. ;)

[DixieTexian]

Fine grained powders shouldn't require quite as much ramming pressure since there's not as much air trapped in between the grains of powder needing to be removed by compression.

Actually, this seems counterintuitive, but there is more space between finer grained particles. We just talked about that in my soils class.

[4v50 Gary]

Consistency is the key to accuracy. Consistent ramrod pressure helps and there used to be a special rod with a brass weight that you lifted to a certain mark and dropped. That ensured that the seated ball was consistently "tamped" each and every time. I don't see it on the market anymore and some folks found it worked. You can make your own though by getting a weight and drilling a hole so that it fits the rod. One part of the rod should have a stopper on it to arrest the downward movement of the weight (nothing to slam the muzzle that way). You lift the weight to the top, release and let gravity do the rest.

[sundance44s]

I use a range rod to load my front stuffers , for 2 reasons ..first useing the rifles ram rod 50 times will cause a blister on the fingers ...secondly by useing the range rod ..i can get a more consistent seating of the ball and patch ..and i do seat with probally a little more pressure than needed because ...loose loads tend to foul the barrel more ...me and the wife shoot twice a month in 2 different black powder clubs , and can make it through a 50 shot string with out running a cleaning patch and are still hitting targets the size of a quarter on the last shot . I know things are a little different useing a sub like 777 ....but we only shoot goex real black ...

[arcticap]

...there is more space between finer grained particles.

DixieTexian, If there was more space between the finer grained particles, then why does convention dictate that fffg loadings be reduced by 10% volume compared to ffg?
If there was more space in between the fine grained powders, logic would dictate that we would need to use a greater volume of fffg rather than a lesser volume, comparatively speaking.
Just by comparing volume loads of fg to ffffg, isn't there more air trapped between the larger particles of fg? More air would be filling the powder measure volume using fg than ffffg because there is less powder by weight, right?
Was something lost during the translation in that soils class or is it me? :D

[DixieTexian]

You probably use less because there is more surface area to the particles. Also, more airspace in the finer grained powder would mean more efficient burning. Although the spaces in between the larger granules are biggere, there are more of them in finer grained particles. Of course, I am assuming that the nature and structure of blackpowder would be similar to that of soils, but I think that is a safe assumption.

[arcticap]

With ffffg, the air may be more dispersed and more evenly distributed, but there would still be less of it overall I believe. Or else the logical definitions regarding powder density by volume loading wouldn't hold true. The proof is in the volume measure since air does takes up space. There's just no hiding air once the powder has settled.

[ccyooper]

Looking for a way to get constant ram rod pressure? Just set your file on an old bathroom scale while ramming the ball..Who cares what it may look like at the range..if it works, go for it...

[fineredmist]

A simple way to get fairly consistent loading pressure is to use your foot. First order of business is to get a range rod with a large handle which will allow you to load without putting a hole in your hand. A 3/8" wooden dowel inserted into a handle works just fine. Start the ball as you normally do and then place the butt on your foot and fully seat the ball with the range rod. Your foot will act as a scale and with practice you will get consistent seating and consistent results on target. Consistent is the key word here.
When you make a handle for the range rod make sure it is large enough to block your view of the target should you forget to remove it. I wasted a lot of time looking for a rammer that I forgot to remove after loading.

[Plink]

I do the same as fineredmist. I use my foot as a scale. I used to be a thwapper and would tamp the charge. When I switched to "pressing" the charge, my groups shrunk and my consistancy increased. I basically rest the gun on my foot, push the ball down to the powder, then begin to press down on the loading rod with about 25 lbs pressure. You get a feel for it after a while and can load with amazing consistency this way. Some of the competition shooters use a scale under the gun or a pressure measuring device on the rod. Consistancy is the key to muzzleloader accuracy.

[beretta9]

Looking for a way to get constant ram rod pressure? Just set your file on an old bathroom scale while ramming the ball..Who cares what it may look like at the range..if it works, go for it...
A simple way to get fairly consistent loading pressure is to use your foot.

Both of these ideas are so simple and workable, I am ashamed of myself for not thinking of them. Thanks everyone for the help. :)

[esmitty82]

but seems just as effective. The man who taught me the basics of loading said you start to seat the ball by throwing the ramrod down after your initial push and when the charge is "packed" the ramrod will start to bounce back. As soon as it does this your done. Do it all the time and you will be consistant in your pressure and it will aid accuracy. Justa thought, wonder if anyone heard of it. :confused:

[4v50 Gary]

Ka-dooty. That's the name of the ramrod with the weight on the end. Don't see it around anymore though. For a write-up, see this Ka-dooty review (http://www.muzzleblasts.com/archives/vol4no3/articles/mbo43-7.html)

[Plink]

Esmitty, I've heard of a lot of folks using that method. Over on muzzleloadingforum, a lot of them recommend it and it does make sense. I haven't tried it myself. I would worry that maybe it would deform the ball a bit and effect accuracy, but from the number of people who do it, I guess it doesn't.

That's the funny part of muzzleloading. There are as many different ways to do it as there are shooters. I don't think there's any one right way to do anything, as all the different systems definately work for the folks who use them.

[____hoot____]

huummmmmm clay has more entrained air than gravel? They didn't teach me that in soils.

[Ranger 40]

Seat the load by pushing the ball down tight over the charge. Mark the loads on your rod. Just try to get the same each time. The flint locks work better with the even push not hard packed loads.
The rod bounce is not some thing I would use. I have all top end barrels, Rice, Getz Etc. The crowns of the barrels are very important to good shooting. I use rod guides to protect the crowns. If you bounce the rod you are running the rod agansit the crown 2 or 3 times at each loading. This has a sawing effect on the crown. It is hard to bounce load using a guide. The other item is you deform the ball when beating on it with the rod. Just push the PRB home, the firing charge will up set the pure lead ball in the patch.:D