[Boats]

I have been looking for signs of life in the gun contol movement. I am not finding much. What is your take on the state of the opposition? Here is mine--they're dying.

Look at the initial weakness of the support for the AWB renewal. In the Senate, one can contrast the 52 cosponsors for S.659, the "Gun Lawsuit Killer" against the weak support for the AWB renewal.

S. 1034--Sponsors, picking up no new ones since May 8, 2003. These votes equal 9% of the Senate.

Mrs. FEINSTEIN CA
Mr. SCHUMER NY
Mr. CHAFEE RI
Mr. JEFFORDS VT
Mr. KENNEDY MA
Mr. DURBIN IL
Mr. LAUTENBERG, NJ
Mrs. BOXER CA
Mr. REED RI

HR 2038--Only 80 Cosponsors as of this date. Only twelve of whom have been picked up since the introduction. Votes equal roughly 18% of the House.

Rep Ackerman, Gary L. - 5/8/2003 [NY-5]
Rep Andrews, Robert E. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-1]
Rep Bishop, Timothy H. - 5/8/2003 [NY-1]
Rep Blumenauer, Earl - 5/8/2003 [OR-3]
Rep Brady, Robert - 5/8/2003 [PA-1]
Rep Brown, Corrine - 5/8/2003 [FL-3]
Rep Capps, Lois - 5/19/2003 [CA-23]
Rep Capuano, Michael E. - 5/8/2003 [MA-8]
Rep Cardin, Benjamin L. - 6/3/2003 [MD-3]
Rep Carson, Julia - 5/8/2003 [IN-7]
Rep Case, Ed - 5/8/2003 [HI-2]
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 5/8/2003 [MI-14]
Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 5/8/2003 [MD-7]
Rep Davis, Danny K. - 5/8/2003 [IL-7]
Rep DeGette, Diana - 5/21/2003 [CO-1]
Rep Delahunt, William D. - 5/8/2003 [MA-10]
Rep DeLauro, Rosa L. - 5/8/2003 [CT-3]
Rep Deutsch, Peter - 5/19/2003 [FL-20]
Rep Emanuel, Rahm - 5/8/2003 [IL-5]
Rep Engel, Eliot L. - 5/8/2003 [NY-17]
Rep Farr, Sam - 5/8/2003 [CA-17]
Rep Fattah, Chaka - 5/8/2003 [PA-2]
Rep Frank, Barney - 5/8/2003 [MA-4]
Rep Grijalva, Raul M. - 5/8/2003 [AZ-7]
Rep Gutierrez, Luis V. - 5/8/2003 [IL-4]
Rep Harman, Jane - 5/8/2003 [CA-36]
Rep Hoeffel, Joseph M. - 5/8/2003 [PA-13]
Rep Holt, Rush D. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-12]
Rep Honda, Michael M. - 5/8/2003 [CA-15]
Rep Jackson, Jesse L., Jr. - 5/8/2003 [IL-2]
Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 5/8/2003 [TX-18]
Rep Johnson, Eddie Bernice - 5/8/2003 [TX-30]
Rep Kennedy, Patrick J. - 5/8/2003 [RI-1]
Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. - 5/19/2003 [OH-10]
Rep Langevin, James R. - 5/8/2003 [RI-2]
Rep Lantos, Tom - 5/21/2003 [CA-12]
Rep Larson, John B. - 6/3/2003 [CT-1]
Rep Lee, Barbara - 5/8/2003 [CA-9]
Rep Lewis, John - 5/8/2003 [GA-5]
Rep Lipinski, William O. - 5/8/2003 [IL-3]
Rep Lofgren, Zoe - 5/8/2003 [CA-16]
Rep Lowey, Nita M. - 5/8/2003 [NY-18]
Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. - 5/8/2003 [NY-14]
Rep Markey, Edward J. - 5/8/2003 [MA-7]
Rep McDermott, Jim - 6/3/2003 [WA-7]
Rep McGovern, James P. - 5/8/2003 [MA-3]
Rep Meehan, Martin T. - 5/8/2003 [MA-5]
Rep Meeks, Gregory W. - 5/19/2003 [NY-6]
Rep Menendez, Robert - 5/8/2003 [NJ-13]
Rep Miller, George - 5/19/2003 [CA-7]
Rep Moran, James P. - 5/8/2003 [VA-8]
Rep Nadler, Jerrold - 5/8/2003 [NY-8]
Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 5/8/2003 [DC]
Rep Olver, John W. - 5/21/2003 [MA-1]
Rep Owens, Major R. - 5/8/2003 [NY-11]
Rep Pascrell, Bill, Jr. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-8]
Rep Payne, Donald M. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-10]
Rep Rangel, Charles B. - 5/8/2003 [NY-15]
Rep Rothman, Steve R. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-9]
Rep Roybal-Allard, Lucille - 5/8/2003 [CA-34]
Rep Rush, Bobby L. - 5/8/2003 [IL-1]
Rep Sanchez, Linda T. - 5/8/2003 [CA-39]
Rep Sanchez, Loretta - 5/8/2003 [CA-47]
Rep Schakowsky, Janice D. - 5/8/2003 [IL-9]
Rep Shays, Christopher - 5/8/2003 [CT-4]
Rep Sherman, Brad - 5/21/2003 [CA-27]
Rep Smith, Christopher H. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-4]
Rep Solis, Hilda L. - 5/8/2003 [CA-32]
Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 5/8/2003 [CA-13]
Rep Tauscher, Ellen O. - 5/8/2003 [CA-10]
Rep Tierney, John F. - 5/8/2003 [MA-6]
Rep Towns, Edolphus - 5/8/2003 [NY-10]
Rep Van Hollen, Chris - 5/8/2003 [MD-8]
Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 5/8/2003 [NY-12]
Rep Waters, Maxine - 5/8/2003 [CA-35]
Rep Watson, Diane E. - 5/8/2003 [CA-33]
Rep Waxman, Henry A. - 5/8/2003 [CA-30]
Rep Weiner, Anthony D. - 5/8/2003 [NY-9]
Rep Wexler, Robert - 5/8/2003 [FL-19]
Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. - 5/8/2003 [CA-6]

Million Mom Meetup for June 7, 2003 Link (http://millionmoms.meetup.com/)

Only 459 have signed up, including a sizeable proportion of obvious imposters created by the membership here.

There are only three primary "gun safety":barf: groups with any profile whatsoever: The Brady/MMM group, The VPC, and Americans For Gun Safety. None of them, save the VPC when it wants to sell something, updates its website frequently, which indicates to me a less than fanatical committment and/or a lack of funds to buy develop or buy content and present it in a timely matter.

Look at the 2000 election cycle for political donations: Gun Control Top Contributor 2000 (http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=Q12&Cycle=2000)
$403,000.00 was all they could manage.

In 2002, $118,000 was all they could manage:LINK (http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?ind=Q12)

Here is the NRA (http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=Q13&Cycle=2000) in 2000. $3.14 million!

Here is 2002 (http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?ind=Q13)

In fact, in 2002 the NSSF, Safari Club International, and the GOA, all managed to outcontribute the Bradys.

Why haven't we crushed these twerps yet?

[Pilgrim]

It is alive and well in the Peoples' Democratic Republic of Kalifornia. :fire:
Pilgrim

[Oleg Volk]

We got to worry about AWB passing as a ride on a Bill to Provide for Cute Bunnies and the elected things claiming they didn't know for what they voted.

[Standing Wolf]

I have been looking for signs of life in the gun contol movement.

Real gun control means hitting your targets quickly, accurately, and consistently. Leftist extremist so-called "gun control" is wannabe tyranny.

[bbrins]

Not enough Moms Who Care About Gun Violence near Washington, DC can make it, so this month's Meetup is cancelled.

Hah! Just out of curiosity I clicked on that "meet up" link. That's right, Sarah, not enough Moms care. :D :D :D :D

[JoshM]

Why haven't we crushed these twerps yet?

Anti Gun proponents are able to punch well above their weight level for a variety of reasons.

Mass Media
Aside from being biased on the issue the media rarely understand legal or technical issues concerning firearms. Having favorable media coverage is like the policy equivalent of having Nuclear weapons.

Anti gun statistics
They are widely reported and even when discredited they simply don't die. I've found the infamous Kellerman "study" cited in a recent Health Ministry study. Such use of anti gun studies is rarely questioned by the Media or any government bodies.

Zeal and Policy
Hard core anti's are often people who "do policy" for a living, often in health, justice, and community development fields.
It gives them the inside running and proves that even one or two people are able to influence legislation.

When noted anti gunner Josh Sugarman changed tact [from his confiscate assault weapons first and then move on strategy] and openly suggested complete civilian disarmament, that was the first sign that anti gun forces were on the back foot.

[SIGarmed]

The biggest gun(nice pun) the anti-gun groups have is the media IMHO.

[El Tejon]

Only one from Indianapolis? Geez, I'll register as Cindy Caswell and cause some havoc.:D

[UnknownSailor]

I'm wondering if a switch to attempting gun legislation in the States vice the National level has something to do with it.

[Wild Bill]

Why haven't we crushed these twerps yet?
Because cockroaches are really hard to crush?:D
Hit 'em again Martha, he's still squirming!

[Thundercleese]

I'm wondering if a switch to attempting gun legislation in the States vice the National level has something to do with it.


PREcisely. The level of out of control gun laws being enacted in state legislatures makes all the federal level gun control laws in history look like a collective walk in the park (on a sunny day).

Make no mistake, CA, IL and a select few others are F*CKED, in so many words. Once they get their various bans in place (explicit or de-facto), the rest will fall. No Congress or Senate necessary.

I'm pretty much resigned to the fact, that it's -all- going away in < 20 years. We're kicking and screaming, but I'm quite sure we're pretty much toast in the long run.

[SIGarmed]

Thundercleese,

I'll beg to differ. If we don't kick and scream in states like California we've already lost. The future may very well be bright with certain cases that have a good chance of heading to the Supreme Court. The grabbers want us to think its hopeless.

[fallingblock]

If you surrender, the enemy no longer has to fight-

States like California are big losses, and turning it around will be a big win.

The fight has certainly been carried to the states, but that is nothing new. The antis game plan was originally to use small Northeastern states as a springboard for inspiring sweeping gun bans in the other states.

While they certainly have succeeded with NJ, MA, MD, RI, and to some extent NY, their success in Illinois and California was largely fortuitous for the antis, handed to them by political blunders rather than sweeping support for their policies in the two latter states.

If, and it's a big 'if', gunowners can be mobilized in those states and the general public brought back away from a tolerance for anti-gun extremism...well!!

[Solinvictus70]

Hah! Not enough "moms" could make it to the meeting scheduled for Cookeville, TN as well! I really don't see the Mommies making much ground here (Chattanooga) because we've just had a high profile self defense shooting AND a city councilman in the midst of a robbery at a local Dollar General. Besides, a lot of our soccer moms pack heat anyway! :D

[Leatherneck]

The generic problem with us gun nuts is that we tend to relax at times like this. i.e., when the antigunners shut up or quiet down, or when we've convinced ourselves that we've won. We never counter-attack. I'd like to urge one or more of our pro-gun critters go on the offensive and propose cancelling a bunch of federal and state laws restricting gonowners' rights. But sadly, cancelling laws is anathema to legislators.:mad:

TC
TFL Survivor

[hops]

The 2nd ammendment is like a patient who has been placed on antibiotics, to fight against the anti-gun bacterium. Even with the bacterium in its weakened state after only Y amount of time, we must continue to administer the antibiotic for X amount of time. And we have not yet reached X amount of time. And I'm not sure what X is. I just know it is longer than Y.

The anties are regrouping. They may be down, but they are far from out. Keep up the fight.

[Henry Bowman]

El Tejon - Cindy lives there with you? :D

[Baba Louie]

The price of freedom... eternal vigilence, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

My father predicted back in '68 that within 20 years all firearms would be outlawed. He's glad to note that he was wrong.

However, in those 35 years much has been lost, a little gained (CCW shall issue in 70% of the Union), new and better(?) implements to collect, shoot and ponder, better ammunitions, many more arms manufactured, sold and loved, members of the female persuasion finally thinking of self preservation, altho' not in the numbers they shoud (IMHO), etc.

Franklin was correct so many years ago in his "United we stand, divided..." as well as his statement of giving us "A Republic... if you can keep it".

Logic vs emotion.

Facts vs fantasy.

Indivisual Responsibility vs having Mommy take care of all your problems.

Louis L'Amour wrote a line about being ..."Only as strong as your enemies."

We know who our enemies are.

Keep them in sight.

Fight the good fight.

And my final last quip, taken from an old Crosby Still Nash and Young album,

"Teach Your Children Well".

Adios

[BowStreetRunner]

right on Baba Louie,
every little bit counts in the fight for our freedoms
one Supreme Court decision this way or that can change everything....for good or bad
and the key to the future is our children
unfortunately we often lose the logic versus emotion and facts versus fantasy conflict......emotions beat logic almost all the time.......and if we use emotion then we are "extremists" or "militia types".......
we must not give up....I fear that if the Constitution goes, the 2nd Am. will be the first in the row of dominoes
if you can "logic" (i hate to call it that, the anti's logic is hardly that) away the right to keep and bear arms which the founding fathers obviously wanted us to have, then all the other Amendments will be toast eventually
ok thats my rant for today
BSR

[Baba Louie]

BowStreetRunner,

When our forefathers were confronted by a government that tried to "logic" an anti-gun position for the serfs, they did what????

We all prefer the ballot. It's the humane American way to effect change.

Its give and take. They take, we give. You can use that line for a hundred different applications, unfortunately.

Everyone sat up and noticed when the S&W decision forever altered their way of doing business.

Everyone sat up and noticed when the gov't and all their policing agencies couldn't stop a score of zealots from killing thousands.

We're OK.

Adios