[David Park]

Incumbent Delegate Jack Rollison doesn't seem to handle competition very well. Ever since gun-rights supporter Jeff Frederick decided to challenge him in the Republican primary for the 52nd Virginia House of Delegates district, the supposedly "pro-gun" Rollison has shown his true colors. First he placed this statement on his web site: Gun Owners of America and the Virginia Citizens Defense League have endorsed Frederick. These extremist and milita-esque organizations are working to end Virginia's common-sense ban against carrying a concealed weapon into a bar. "With his extremist supporters and radical views on guns in bars, Frederick's is out of touch with our Prince William County family community," said Rollison. Then, he sent the following flyer to his constituents:

http://www.vcdl.org/new/rollison.html

:fire:

The NRA, in its infinite wisdom, has endorsed Rollison, calling him a "fellow freedom fighter". :scrutiny: Read about it here: http://keepandbeararms.com/information/Item.asp?ID=3590


I really wish I was in the right district to vote against this RINO.

[Standing Wolf]

I have a hunch the N.R.A. needs to reconsider this R.I.N.O.

[OF]

With friends like this...

- Gabe

[gun-fucious]

some seems to be spending some money on the "issue"

whenever i hear "common sense" and "gun control" in the same sentence,
my eyes glaze over and i see Andrew McKelvey laughing

[Skunkabilly]

These extremist and milita-esque organizations

You mean like those extremists that threw tea overboard at some protest?

[CZ-75]

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

-Barry Goldwater

[Seawolf]

whenever i hear "common sense" and "gun control" in the same sentence...
My eyes immediately roll and I knew the next word is going to be some spin or the day's talking point.

[Leatherneck]

It's a real tangled mess here, with some pro-gun Delegates endorsing Rollison, others not. Lots of old-fashioned Virginia politickin' going on behind the scenes. But there are some 5,000 of us VCDL/GOA members that don't appreciate being called extremists and painted as irresponsible gun-toting radicals by Rolly. He may have cut his own throat politically by declaring war on VCDL and GOA. Let us hope so.

As to the NRA's "A" ratings, well :barf:

TC
TFL Survivor
:fire:

[foghornl]

Considering some of their endorsements lately, just who IS running the NRA? ? ?

Sarah Brady ? ? ? Jush Sugarman ? ? ? The VPC? ? ?

[Greg L]

I've noticed that if the choice comes down to a marginally progun incumbent vs. a true progun opponent the NRA will usually go with whoever they have the most money invested in (incumbent) rather than someone whos stated purpose is to fight for the 2nd A.

Greg

[CZ-75]

Considering some of their endorsements lately, just who IS running the NRA? ? ?

Apparently, Chuck isn't the only one with Alzheimer's.

[themic]

republican primary is next week! anyone in the 52nd needs to get out there... you don't have to be a member of the republican party, or a registered republican (virginia doesn't register party members anyways), all you have to do is not vote in any other party's primary that year.

where is the 52nd district? is that woodbridge?

[MrAcheson]

GOA and VCDL are extremist groups compared to the general populace. Its definitely true, although not in the evil shoot-an-abortionist right-wing extremist sense. Extremism is not necessarily a bad thing where rights are concerned. Militia? No not really.

Frankly the bills he voted for were bills that restricted drinking alcohol and carrying a handgun. On principle many people have trouble with that because it is a gun control bill/amendment. That equals bad in lots of 2A folks minds.

In specific, though, you shouldn't drink and carry. Its like drinking while driving. It's never a good idea. Provided these weren't "you cannot carry in any business that sells any amount of alcohol" laws (i.e. you cannot carry in any restaurant other than McDonalds laws) I wouldn't really have a problem with this. I would place laws like this in the constitutional equivalent of laws regarding yelling fire in a crowded theater or inciting a riot.

[Boats]

Mmmmmm. Beer AND a 1911. Good pictures, bad flyer.

He really said "milita-esque?" How 90s! :rolleyes:

[Partisan Ranger]

I live in this district and have a CCW. I also belong to GOA as well as NRA. I really don't appreciate Rollison lumping me in with radicals and extremists. Tell me, you political hack, what is 'extreme' about desiring to protect myself from criminal scum? Do you suppose that a murderous thug is going to obey your cute little law about not carrying where alcohol is served?

I can see not allowing CCW in a bar, but in Fridays or Ruby Tuesday?

Like most CCW holders, I take my responsibility seriously. I am certainly not going to carry if I am drinking.

I think the other guy has my vote.

[Partisan Ranger]

"Provided these weren't "you cannot carry in any business that sells any amount of alcohol" laws (i.e. you cannot carry in any restaurant other than McDonalds laws)"
---------------

That IS the issue here. VA has a truly moronic law that says I cannot carry concealed in ANY establishment that serves booze. That eliminates about 90 percent of restaurants.

Criminals carry wherever they please. They break the law. CCW holders are mostly responsible adults. This is a BS law that should be repealed.

[Mr. James]

MrAcheson,

As Partisan states, presently in the Ol' Dominion, a CHL-holder is forbidden from carrying his firearm into any restaurant that serves alcohol. That includes Outback Steakhouse, Ruby Tuesday's, Applebea's, etc. etc.

Irony being what it is, it is perfectly legal in most of the state to patronize these same establishments carrying openly.

Phil Van Cleave and his band of stout hearts with the Virginia Citizen's Defense League have soldiered valiantly against this and other idiocies in Virginia's laws. Consider supporting them:

http://www.vcdl.org

I e-mailed a Randy Kozuch at the NRA politely asking why "our" NRA was supporting this slandering, ill-tempered RINO while a stalwart gun rights supporter, Jeff Frederick (http://www.votejeff.com) gets kicked to the curb; needless to state, no reply.

[MrAcheson]

Ah I stand corrected then. My mistake. Those laws are stupid and should be opposed.

I don't have a problem with carrying in a restaurant or bar if you are drinking soda or DDing your friends who are consuming (like I usually do). I do have a problem with getting drunk with a firearm on you. I know way too many people that are perfectly responsible when sober, but stupid stupid drunks. There are plenty of violent drunks who are really nice guys sober too. Bearing lethal force when your judgement and coordination is heavily impaired is criminal IMHO.

BTW Partisan Ranger, why don't you try reading my post before you reply to it? If your interpretation of the 2ndA is "repeal all gun laws everywhere and make sure it is unconstitutional to pass more" then you are a political extremist when compared to the American population who really don't mind some measure of gun control. You (if you are one of those people) are on a political extreme. Deal with it, because the label is technically accurate.

[Partisan Ranger]

I did read your post, sir. Quite thoroughly, in fact.

I was simply pointing out, respectfully, the simple fact that we're dealing with banning CCW in all restaurants that serve alcohol.

My position is that as a CCW holder, I know darned well not to carry if I am drinking. CCW holders are not the problem. Criminals are.

By the way, I wrote to this anti-gun politician the following:

Sir,

All due respect, I strongly disagree with and resent your campaign brochure that paints Jeff Frederick and people in the GOA and VCDL as 'extremists.'

First, your brochure misrepresents the issue. The current Va. law prohibits not just carrying in 'bars and nightclubs,' but in ANY establishment that serves alcohol. That eliminates about 90% of restaurants. Taking your family to Fridays and want to carry concealed to protect them? You're out of luck, if you are a law-abiding citizen that is. If you are a criminal, have at it.


Second, while portraying yourself as 'pro-gun' to get the NRA endorsement, you are using the same logic (or lack thereof) of the anti-gun extremist bigots in our society. You assume that a law-abiding person with a CCW isn't responsible enough to not carry when he is drinking. I am not a child, sir. I know full well if I consume alcohol, I should not carry a firearm.

You see, I am a law-abiding person. I respect the law and I respect my fellow man. I don't need to have my God-given rights needlessly trodden upon and restricted by your little laws. Criminals, the ones you supposedly are trying to stop, will never obey your restrictions, whatever they are. They are criminals.

You have lost my vote, sir. I, of course, am an 'extremist' in your jargon, so I doubt you care. If being an 'extremist' means wanting to defend myself and my family from criminal scum, then paint me an extremist.

[dance varmint]

Who here, besides the occasional RINO apologist, gives a RA what the general population's position is on the 2A, and how that technically defines us as extremists? The general population was similarly spineless about slavery until the extremist Republican party was founded and Lincoln won the presidency, not to be grandiose or anything.

[Leatherneck]

Not to nitpick, but the law actually forbids CHP holders' carrying concealed into any establishment that holds a VA ABC license for on-premises consumption.
So if you're legally carrying concealed, don't go into the restaurant, club, market or whatever. Ironically, all you have to do to be legal is uncover and suffer the reactions of the sheep. :evil:

edited to add: MRACHESON, what in the world made you presume to lecture us about drinking and carrying?

TC
TFL Survivor

[Smurfslayer]

and use the tired old "slippery slope" argument, but ...

As has been previously stated, Open carry is perfectly legal in ABC establishments in VA. It's already illegal to be carrying concealed and be intoxicated. The danger in further restricting alcohol consumption and carrying could extend to a law abiding citizen on or about his/her own property, home, curtilage, etc...

Not to mention the fact that the drunk in public statute is purely a judgement call on the part of the arresting officer - no breathalyzer standard, just 'officer discretion'. That's too ambiguous. No you should not consume alcohol near the time when you are going to be around a firearm, but what if you are put in the predicament of self defense after consuming a beer or glass of wine?

All these 'restrictions' aren't serving a good purpose now. How many violations of 18.2-308 have for a CHP carrying concealed in an ABC establishment since 1995 ?

It's a non problem. It wasn't a problem before shall issue, and it' s not a problem now. Won't be in the future either.

Rollison has to go, Frederick is a far better choice.

[Zundfolge]

I don't have a problem with carrying in a restaurant or bar if you are drinking soda or DDing your friends who are consuming (like I usually do). I do have a problem with getting drunk with a firearm on you. I know way too many people that are perfectly responsible when sober, but stupid stupid drunks. There are plenty of violent drunks who are really nice guys sober too. Bearing lethal force when your judgement and coordination is heavily impaired is criminal IMHO.

Liberals and antis are always using the argument "well you register your car, why not your gun?".

Along that line, the way the law should read is that if you blow a .08BAL or higher and you are carrying, then you lose your CCW (just as you would lose your DL if you're behind the wheel). Otherwise its not the governments business if you go to a resturant that serves beer (hell even if you have a beer or glass of wine with diner it shouldn't matter either ... although I'm sure I'll get some disagreement here).


EDIT: Wow! my 500th post! :D

[Partisan Ranger]

Liberals and antis are always using the argument "well you register your car, why not your gun?".



Because history isn't replete with examples of tyrannical governments enacting registeration of vehicles, followed by confiscation, followed by extermination of certain segments of the populace.

Cars aren't viewed as a threat to politicians' power. Guns are.

[MrAcheson]

I was simply pointing out, respectfully, the simple fact that we're dealing with banning CCW in all restaurants that serve alcohol.

What part of "political hack" is respectful? Perhaps you were referring to the State Senator not myself?

However if you can accept the gun control in general as an allowable concept, then carrying while intoxicating or imbibing is probably at the top of most people's lists of reasonable laws. Now that I better understand the question I see my error.

Smurfslayer,

In point of fact guns and liquor was a huge problem in some parts of society. There are two reasons for gun laws in this country. The first is Jim Crow. The second is drunken bar patrons shooting each other all over the old west.

Mr. James.

I appreciate the fact that you were the only one who understood what I was saying rather than flaming on.

My apologies for coming on too strong to the rest of you.

[Partisan Ranger]

'Political hack' refers to Rollison. I thought a 'political hack' was one who is engaged in the business of being a politician and, in this case, likes playing footsy with our God-given rights for his political advantage.

[XLMiguel]

VCDL-PAC is endorsing Howie Lind in my district (32). That's good enough for me, but does anyone know anything about this guy (beyond what's on his website)? Almost anyone/thing is better than Janet Howell.

[Mr. James]

Mike,

From Sen. Ken Cuccinelli's endorsement of Howie Lind:

“Like me, Howie Lind is pro-Life, supports our Second Amendment Rights including the right to carry, he opposes affirmative action quota schemes and strongly favors repealing Virginia’s Estate Tax,” Senator Cuccinelli noted. “And Howie has the guts to speak out and be a leader for taxpayers – even if that means saying that some programs and services have to be cut and eliminated.”

I know Sen. Cuccinelli - not as a friend, but I worked his campaign and I see him at my church quite frequently. Cuccinelli is locked on, and Lind seems to be a kindred spirit. Cuccinelli wasn't only a passive supporter of gun rights, but sponsored and labored for legislation, inter alia, to end this idiotic restaurant ban.

Both are good to go.

Unless others can prove otherwise, support and vote for Lind with enthusiasm.

I actually have good feelings about the trend in Virginia politics.

[Leatherneck]

Interesting tidbit this morning: in the 31st District (Prince William and Fauquier), our very pro-gun republican delegate, Scott Lingamfelter, will be opposed this fall by David G. Brickley, ex-delegate. Not particularly pro-gun, but not a rabid Anti either, IIRC.

TC
TFL Survivor

[El Tejon]

Again with "carrying into bars." I do it here; what's the problem? How does possessing the means to protect myself make me an extremist (unless you define self-defense as "extreme")?

More emotion to drive the mommies like the cattle they are. Hope our friends in Ol' Virginny prevail on this nonsense.

BTW, can't you carry openly in Ol' Virginny taverns?

[Partisan Ranger]

El Tejon,

Yes, you can carry openly in a bar in Virginia, and you CAN carry openly in a restaurant that serves alcohol. However, I have never seen, outside of a gun shop, anyone in Virginia carrying openly. Now granted, I live in Northern Virginia (Shenandoah Valley technically), so perhaps down south in the heart of Va. they do carry openly.

I would much rather carry concealed when I go into a restaurant that serves booze. It also just plain irritates me that my right to self-defense is restricted, even though I have a CCW.

[Leatherneck]

Tejon:
Indeed. In fact, that's the only legal way for a patron to carry a gun in places that have an ABC on-premises license. Seems kinda stupid to me, as I believe firmly in not exciting the rabble, especially if they're drinking. Oh well...the "restaurant ban" is next on the agenda.

From the VCDL site:

Places Off-Limits While Carrying
· ANY Courthouse
· ANY Federal Property (Federal Offices/National Parks/Post Offices)
· Military Facilities
· Place of Worship During a Service "Without Good and Sufficient Reason"
· Places With On-Premises Alcohol - Owners/Employees/Open Carry Exempted
· Private Property / Business When Prohibited by Owner or Posted
· Public/Private/Parochial School Buses
· Public/Private/Parochial School Functions
· Public/Private/Parochial School Property
· State Parks (CCW Ok. Open Carry Not Allowed)
· Virginia Commonwealth University

TC
TFL Survivor

[BrokenPaw]

Partisan Ranger,

There are some of us who carry openly from time to time, here in Northern Virginia. I live in Manassas. I regularly carry openly in businesses near my house. I tend to carry concealed when I can, but if the weather's too hot, and it's a choice between open carry and no carry, I carry open.

No one at Food Lion, Giant, Hollywood Video, the Saturn dealership[0], 7-11, Outback, Pizzaria Uno, Fuddruckers, or Lowes has ever batted an eye at me about it.

By the way, with respect to the so-called "restaurant ban", prohibiting CCH in ABC on-premises establishments: It's not just bars and restaurants that are affected; some upper-class[1] department stores have wine bars in some of their locations. Wine Bar == ABC On == No CCH. That's a nasty one to run into, if you didn't know that the place served alcohol.

Does anyone know what an ABC license costs? It occurs to me that businesses could try to obtain one in order to make CC illegal on their premises.

-BP

[0] Had a guy there ask me what make/model I was carrying, but out of apparent interest, not fear or concern.
[1] pronounced "overpriced"

[Partisan Ranger]

Interesting about carrying openly....I have thought about getting a paddle holster for my K-9 so I can carry regardless of this dumb-@@@ law.

I may try carrying openly next time we go to a restaurant. I'm curious what the reaction might be. "Oh my God, Ralph, grab little Tyler and Brittany! That man HAS A GUN!" (heh heh!)

Regarding wine cafes in high class dept. stores, no worry for me. I'm a cheap SOB and far from high class...Sears and Target are more my speed. :D

[BrokenPaw]

I may try carrying openly next time we go to a restaurant. I'm curious what the reaction might be. "Oh my God, Ralph, grab little Tyler and Brittany! That man HAS A GUN!" (heh heh!)My wife and daughter and I ate at Outback Steakhouse last night. I was carrying. No one said anything. The woman in the booth across from ours was glaring at me some, but that might have been just because of the way I look and not because I was carrying[0].

The only restaurant where I've ever been given any trouble over carrying is the Logan's Roadhouse in Manassas. There's a lengthy story there; PM me if you're interested.

The wait staff in the Ruby Tuesday's in Fairfax went so far as to tell some other customers to "cope", when said other customers got all shirty about there being guns in the restaurant. Then the waiters came and told us what had happened, and reassured us that we were welcome. They got tipped well that night, too.

The Red Robin in Fair Lakes actively welcomes people who carry; the manager has come over to talk to us about what we're packing, and has always been positive.

-BP

[0] Long dark hair, goatee, motorcycle boots, all-black clothes (which when combined with a black Beretta makes for a nice low profile, even when open-carrying :D)

[gun-fucious]

VCDL members and other gun owners who got a mailer from the VCDL PAC
spoke decisively at the polls tonight in the Rollison/Frederic
delegate race.

Rollison lost the primary and his House seat by a 58 to a 41 percent
margin to Jeff Frederic.

Let there be no doubt that the Rollison/Frederic primary turned on
gun rights - Rollison's attack and mischaracterization of both VCDL
and the restaurant ban repeal cost him dearly. Rollison's "hate"
mail against VCDL went to every registered voter in his district.
That mailing backfired. Gun owners want the restaurant ban REPEALED
and are not in the mood for attacks on guns and gun organizations.
They voted accordingly.

If you are in Jeff Frederic's district, call or email him and
congratulate him on his win.

**

In the Potts/Tate race, Senator Potts just barely squeaked by Tate
with a 106 vote margin (out of over 7,000 votes) - a win of less than
1%. For those who don't believe every vote in a primary doesn't make
a difference, here is yet another example of how close these races
can be and how important it is that you vote in them. 107 votes was
all that was needed to have gotten a pro-gun restaurant owner who
wanted to repeal the restaurant ban a win in the primary.

Those of you who live in Senator Potts' district should call and ask
him to reconsider his position and help to repeal the restaurant ban.
Also ask him to send in the VCDL questionnaire when he gets it later
this year.

**

The results of the other races can be found here:

http://www.sbe.vipnet.org/

If you live in a contested district, contact the winner and ask them
to support the repeal of the restaurant ban repeal and ask them to
return the VCDL survey when they get it later in the year.

***************************************************************************

VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL).
VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to
defending the human rights of all Virginians. The membership considers the
right to keep and bear arms an essential human right.

VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org

[Dan from MI]

Unfortunatly, some NRA (of which I happen to be a member)officials like to play games. I suspect that was what happened when Rollison was endorsed.

I wonder if it is the same NRA official that we had in Michigan. I don't like to mention names of non public individuals, so I won't name him, but it wouldn't suprise me if it is the same guy. He lives in VA.

An Anti-gunner was endorsed here in 2002. Another anti-gunner was given an A, same grade as the pro-2a incumbent who was endorsed.

[Mike Irwin]

Take it from someone who was there for 3.5 years.

NRA's political recommendations are pretty much a :cuss: ing joke.

[JohnBT]

ABC license costs:

www.abc.state.va.us/enforce/liccost.htm

So how does a department store meet the minimum food sales requirement? Do they even have a kitchen? For that matter, how can the shop where I get my hair cut serve wine?

John

[Leatherneck]

YES! Rolly went down! So who do you trust?
The NRA, in its infinite wisdom, has endorsed Rollison, calling him a "fellow freedom fighter".
Remembering RINO Rollison's disrespectful and downright nasty rejection of VCDL's politely stated concerns with his support for the restaurant ban, I'm with Mike Irwin:NRA's political recommendations are pretty much a ing joke.

TC
TFL Survivor

[XLMiguel]

Rollison got his butt kicked right proper!:D

Unfortunately, In my distrivt, Howie Lind got beat by about 2/1. At least I got my $.02 in at the polls. HOpefully, Mr. Hunt will beat Janet Howell in the fall.:rolleyes:

[Partisan Ranger]

I went running last night at 6:45 pm and stopped at the polling station in Winchester VA to vote for Tate. I had a feeling it would be a very small turnout so I really thought that my vote would count. Only a 106 vote margin! Oh well. I'll write to Potts and ask him to reconsider his position on restaurants and CCW.

[faustulus]

You mean like those extremists that threw tea overboard at some protest?

Could we please avoid using this incident to illustrate anymore points, unless it is microsoft claiming free speech violations in its monoply suits.

[Apple a Day]

Even the local commie rag, the Daily Press, had to admit that it was partly Rollinson's stance on guns that sank him... of course they mentioned it waaaaay down in the article. :evil:

[MrAcheson]

Open carry while drinking at a bar is not a bad idea. It gives the bartender a chance to say "Hey whoa there buddy you need to pace yourself better when you're packing." Sorta like asking for the keys at a certain point...

[Tom B]

"The right to bear arms, except in a bar, shall not be infringed." Hmmm......:scrutiny: :uhoh: