A few beers and gun to the head


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MechAg94
February 15, 2007, 04:48 PM
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21232315-5001021,00.html

I hadn't seen anything on this before. I thought it was very interesting. Any of our Australian members have a comment? Just how common is this?

A few beers and gun to the head

Exclusive by Gemma Jones

February 16, 2007 12:00
Article from: The Daily Telegraph

THESE frightening scenes – in which bandits point guns and a samurai sword at hotel patrons – have become a daily occurrence in Sydney.

The raid on St Leonards Tavern in Artarmon early yesterday was just another night at work for the armed gangs prowling Sydney.

Two other pubs were hit within an hour of the Artarmon raid while a hotel security guard was shot on Wednesday night in a separate attack.

But dramatic scenes like those caught on security cameras at the Artarmon tavern and obtained by The Daily Telegraph yesterday have been deemed too legally sensitive by police.

A second video obtained from a service station last week of a masked gunman robbing the Kogarah business also captured the reality of Sydney's shocking, and increasing, gun crime.

But for the past three days, police have repeatedly told The Daily Telegraph they were unable to provide footage of seven other Sydney hold-ups.

A police spokesman said any footage which could be available today would have the actual crime edited out because it could prejudice future court proceedings.

If you've been robbed and want something done about it, ring us on 02 9288 3387

Such sanitised footage would not show the tavern raid where drinkers enjoying a beer are suddenly plunged into a fight for survival at 1.34am.

The tavern's manager yesterday released the CCTV footage in the hope the public could help identify the attackers.

During the nine-minute raid, chilling footage shows one patron raising his arms in defence as one of four masked bandits went to swing a samurai sword at him.

A brave manager intervened, standing at the bar and announcing: "I am the manager, I am the one you want."

He was then forced to the tavern's office where the sword-wielding bandit stood over him while he bundled cash into a bag.

The tavern's manager yesterday said violent raids on pubs had become so common he was struggling to understand why police had not provided more resources to catch the criminals.

He said the "Australian institution" of having a beer at a local pub was under threat.

"These armed gangs go around in (Subaru) WRXs, they robbed two other hotels, it is amazing the police aren't out looking for these types of cars at night," he said.

There were 560 armed robberies at gunpoint in NSW in the year up to September with the crime rising significantly for the first time in almost five years.

In the second attack a worker is trapped as a gun is pointed at his head while the two bandits storm the service station he attends on Harrow Rd, Kogarah just after 5am on Friday.

Police who have set up a strike force believe the same bandits are responsible for five other violent hold-ups in Sydney.

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scout26
February 15, 2007, 04:55 PM
Nope, didn't happen, all of Oz turned in their guns. It's now a violence free dingo petting zoo.

"These armed gangs go around in (Subaru) WRXs, they robbed two other hotels, it is amazing the police aren't out looking for these types of cars at night," he said.

If they would just ban Subaru WRX's the violence will end....... I guess this falls under the catagory of "Car Crimes".

romma
February 15, 2007, 05:15 PM
He said the "Australian institution" of having a beer at a local pub was under threat.
Leave the bars and go home to have a beer, they'll be along there next shortly. Apparently the Australian institution of being defensless is alive and well though. Let's not let this happen here...

IfYouOnlyKnew
February 15, 2007, 05:19 PM
We hosted an Australian exchange student in 1998. He and his parents visited us a few weeks ago. They live in Sydney. I asked them about reports I had seen on another board of Clockwork Orange type attacks in some cities. They seemed very puzzled. They admitted there were a few areas that were better to avoid as you would expect in any large city but nothing serious or widespread. :confused:

Dravur
February 15, 2007, 08:12 PM
<quote> If you've been robbed and want something done about it, ring us on 02 9288 3387 <quote...>

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<Deep Breath>
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

<edit>

Axman
February 16, 2007, 02:15 AM
If you've been robbed and want something done about it, you should have dialed .357!!!

ArfinGreebly
February 16, 2007, 02:26 AM
Yes, car crime indeed.

Sad.

Something must be done. The WRX is clearly only designed for fast getaways.

No honest person needs a high performance car.

These "getaway" and "assault" cars must be banned.

strambo
February 16, 2007, 02:45 AM
When you ban guns...only criminals will have Katanas and WRX's...sometimes guns. Those tricky thugs keeps switching tactics faster than the banners can keep up! I say double the size of the legislature so they can pass laws 24/7!!! It's for the drunk fathers of the children!:eek:

thexrayboy
February 16, 2007, 03:00 AM
But dramatic scenes like those caught on security cameras at the Artarmon tavern and obtained by The Daily Telegraph yesterday have been deemed too legally sensitive by police.


Thats right, it would tend to remind Aussies that the police are powerless to defend them and they allowed their own government to disarm them making them just so many sheep to be fleeced. Better to not allow such footage to be shown so that the citizenry can keep their heads firmly in the sand...or up
their ***. What a shame. I used to think Aussies were some of the most independent people on the planet, apparently they didn't enjoy their independence and gave it up for the promise of safety.

daniel (australia)
February 16, 2007, 05:25 AM
Before it becomes necesary to put on hip waders in here, it is worth noting that we are well into election mode in NSW, and the Daily Telegraph is a rag well known for ramping up the law and order debate at such times, as well as nakedly partisan in its support of the State opposition. It should be noted that the reports are of one, sometimes two armed robberies per day in a city of over 4 million population.

There have however been some glimmers here of recognition in the media that the whole gun buyback was a waste of time, with a recent study which showed that there had been essentially no effect on crime rates getting quite a bit of press recently. Stories like the above have been accompanied in recent days with reports that significant numbers of guns were, as a result of incompetence and dishonesty in relation to the buyback, siphoned-off and redirected to criminals, a fact that also hasn't escaped attention. This for example was in last Tuesday's Sydney Morning Herald:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o177/dan_sydney/smhcartoonfeb132007.jpg

BTW while gun owners have indeed been subjected to increased restrictions there are in fact significantly more firearms in legal private ownership here than before the buybacks. Not everyone here is a sheep;)

xsquidgator
February 16, 2007, 09:23 AM
BTW while gun owners have indeed been subjected to increased restrictions there are in fact significantly more firearms in legal private ownership here than before the buybacks. Not everyone here is a sheep

But, the Austalians have made it easier to get a CWP in New York City than in Australia. Not good. The thing about the police basically censoring the news so as not to alarm the public with how helpless the populace is against these criminals isn't good either. At least here in the states, the press would be similarly inclined to censor crime footage, unless they had some footage from al jazeera claiming US troops had done something bad then it'd be on 24/7. :cuss:

Lonestar
February 16, 2007, 09:50 AM
Most American cities, the Bar Owners have guns;

Story from Baltimore

Makauskas may have been born in Lithuania, but he’s very much of his neighborhood. His path to becoming the Harbor Way’s patriarch was via war-torn Poland and Germany, as a boy, and it involved a lot of walking and border-crossing red tape. But here he sits, in his daughter’s tavern that was his for decades and, before that, his mother’s, and cheerily points out three bullet gouges on the bar’s coral-colored linoleum surface and a stuccoed-over bullet hole from his own .45 next to the front door. These scars are from a shootout in 1972, he recalls, when armed invaders stormed the place, then quickly turned and ran off at the sight and explosive sound of an itchy-trigger-fingered Makauskas in a cloud of gun smoke. His stories are hard-earned but happily shared—and often shed light on the shaky ground on which the truth sits.

Story From San Antonio

robbery suspect who walked into a bar with a gun ended up getting shot himself Friday morning. According to authorities, the bar owner had a gun of his own, and ended up killing the suspect.
This happened around 12:30 a.m., at the Old Soldier's Bar on Binz-Engleman near Kirby.

The bar owner told deputies that the suspect walked in looking drugged and disoriented. When he was told to leave, the suspect pulled his gun out and demanded money.

Instead of complying, the bar owner grabbed his own gun and shot the suspect twice. He died at the scene.

Deputies say the bar owner does not face charges, since he was defending himself. Several other people were also inside the bar, but were not hurt.

And a Crack shot in Detriot

Two suspected robbers are dead after a former police officer and owner of a Detroit bar fired a single shot, Local 4 reported.The robbery and shooting happened early Sunday or late Saturday at Adela's place on the city's southwest side.

Police say the 49-year-old woman who owned the restaurant -- a retired Detroit cop who was a former member of Mayor Coleman Young's security team -- tried to hold the suspects in the parking lot until police arrived. But when the two men attempted to speed away, and nearly ran over one of her employees, she fired a single shot that apparently struck both men, according to police.


"We've had some robberies in that area. We have some evidence now that may indicate that someone was robbed there and assaulted there. There attempted to be another assault against one of the employees, before the owner of this establishment fired one shot in an attempt to stop a fleeing felon," said Detroit police Inspector Marilyn Hall-Beard.

The two men -- Dorian Gordillo, 22, and Rosalio Becera, 33 -- were later found dead from a bullet wound in a car parked on the Interstate 75 service drive, according to police.

One of the men was reportedly still holding a beer in his hand.

Family members of Gordillo and Becera were initially confused over their deaths, Local 4 reported.

"He was a very good guy. He would never look for trouble. I don't understand what happened. I hope we can find some answers," said Barbara Gordillo, the sister-in-law of one of the victims.

Officers who had responded to the incident at the bar wrote down the description of the car that left the scene and later made a match with the vehicle in which Gordillo and Becera were found dead, Local 4 reported.

While the shooting appeared to be justified, the Wayne County prosecutor was expected to review the case to determine if the bar owner would face charges.

daniel (australia)
February 16, 2007, 09:56 AM
I'll grant you that it is very difficult lawfully to carry concealed here, but that has been the case for a very long time. What is starting to be recognised is that the more recent changes to firearms laws have had essentially no effect on crime rates, and that criminals have been singularly unhampered in obtaining guns.

However, the article in question here is nothing more than a yellow-press beat-up, to make the incumbent State Government look "soft on crime" in the lead up to an election in March. This paper runs the same sort of campaign, with boring predictability, every election.

In fact if you read the editorial for today the nonsense of it all is quite palpable:

WHETHER or not the collected statistics bear it out or not, the perception in the community that crimes of violence are on the increase in undeniable.

The terrifying images in today's editions of The Daily Telegraph of armed robberies in progress will add to that perception, and that will lead, no doubt, to the usual chorus of criticism from social theorists that such news reports serve only to stir up public anxiety.

But that criticism is unfair. Whether there has been a dramatic spike in the incidence of armed crime is not the issue.

The fact is, the present level of violent crime in the community – more, less, the same as last year – is completely unacceptable. And with an election just five weeks away, the public has a not-unreasonable expectation that our elected leaders will have something reasonable, something constructive to say on the matter.

So we offer this guidance to both the Government and the Opposition – law and order is a matter of the highest priority for the public and so it should be on both sides of the political divide...
(emphasis added)

In other words, crime isn't actually up at all, in fact armed robbery is quite rare really, but we at the Telegraph are going to whip up a frenzy regardless of those pesky facts:rolleyes:

Thin Black Line
February 16, 2007, 10:15 AM
THESE frightening scenes – in which bandits point guns and a samurai sword at hotel patrons – have become a daily occurrence in Sydney.

The raid on St Leonards Tavern in Artarmon early yesterday was just another night at work for the armed gangs prowling Sydney.


So is Australia getting to the point where some guy will be speeding down
the road yelling "nightrider!" while being chased by cars marked MFP?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=08bovbrsYpA

Dr. Dickie
February 16, 2007, 10:48 AM
We hosted an Australian exchange student in 1998. He and his parents visited us a few weeks ago. They live in Sydney. I asked them about reports I had seen on another board of Clockwork Orange type attacks in some cities. They seemed very puzzled. They admitted there were a few areas that were better to avoid as you would expect in any large city but nothing serious or widespread.


Actually, that is not surprising when you consider this:

A police spokesman said any footage which could be available today would have the actual crime edited out because it could prejudice future court proceedings.

Gun crime? What gun crime?
So, seeing the criminal committing the crime might prejudice the jury. What then will the jury be basing their opinion on?

doubleg
February 16, 2007, 10:57 AM
Aww come on everyone knows ausies don't need guns.

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2001/07/11/crocodile1.jpg

But really all the people I have known from there are great kind people.

Lonestar
February 16, 2007, 11:12 AM
I'll grant you that it is very difficult lawfully to carry concealed here, but that has been the case for a very long time. What is starting to be recognised is that the more recent changes to firearms laws have had essentially no effect on crime rates, and that criminals have been singularly unhampered in obtaining guns.

Join the club, some US cities passed laws to increased the difficulity for normal citizens to purchase and carry a handgun, while crime still increases and criminals have no problems becoming armed.

The editing of the tapes might have a lot to do with tourism. I would assume Sydney was a nice safe city to stay at while visiting Australia, but if I was about ready to book a trip and seen news reports showing video tapes of violent attacks and robbery all around Sydney, me and a lot of other foriegn tourist might decide to go elsewhere.

Unfortunately the only way these gangs can be stopped is if they are brutally gunned down. If they are caught and arrested, then other copy cat gangs will take there place. If they were killed by a bar owner however, then others will realize that robbing bars is risky business.

Thin Black Line
February 16, 2007, 11:19 AM
but if I was about ready to book a trip and seen news reports showing video tapes of violent attacks and robbery all around Sydney, me and a lot of other foriegn tourist might decide to go elsewhere.


New Orleans has some hotel vacancies.....

IfYouOnlyKnew
February 16, 2007, 04:41 PM
Not to get geographically off topic, but hotels in New Orleans are currently 95% full for the weekend heading into Mardi Gras. Oh, yeah, nine people were shot last night in two incidents in the Big Easy. www.NOLA.com Six in a bar shooting (one dead), three in a car (two dead). Neither in a tourist area but I'd take Sydney's crime rate any day compared to the city of my birth. :(

wdlsguy
February 16, 2007, 05:12 PM
He said the "Australian institution" of having a beer at a local pub was under threat.
I guess they need to adopt the "American institution" of keeping a shotgun behind the bar. :evil:

Malone LaVeigh
February 16, 2007, 06:47 PM
This happened around 12:30 a.m., at the Old Soldier's Bar on Binz-Engleman near Kirby.

The bar owner told deputies that the suspect walked in looking drugged and disoriented. When he was told to leave, the suspect pulled his gun out and demanded money.
He'd have to be pretty "drugged and disoriented" to try to rob a place called "the Old Soldier's Bar."

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