[forcefed]

Hello all,

I am interested in joining the military and have seen many mentions of experience on this board. Can someone please point me to a forum that can help answer my questions. I am a recent college grad who wants to start a whole new experience and I think I can provide a lot to this country that I love.

To those who are/were enlisted, did you have regrets after joining, and are there things to look out for before signing up.

Thank you all,
Michael
mpkoerner@hotmail.com

[Destructo6]

Primary, is get it in writing. Any program you want and are promised should be in writing before you sign.

Don't enlist without a guaranteed program. "Open Contract" (USMC) and non-rate (USN) are sometimes billed as better, because you can see what the various specialties do before committing to one. In reality, it means there's a very high probability that you'll be put in whatever specialty that happens to be available. Often, there's an availability because the specialty is very undesireable.

For anecdotal evidence...

When I was in Navy bootcamp, the whole company of 82 men had the same program that required one to pass a test, in bootcamp, in order to eligible to select 1 of 11 ratings (specialties). Approximately half failed the test and then had two choices: chipping paint for 2 years as a non-rate, or go to mess specialist (cook) school. All but a few took the MS route, since the alternative was a bit worse.

Get a program before going and get the agreement in writing.

[50 Shooter]

I agree with D6, get the MOS you want in writing. Sign up for enlistment bonus and college program that you can. Never know, you might want to go back to school when you get out.

Also think about a MOS that will train you for what you want to do when you get out of the Military.

[sig970]

As above.

Do your homework, pick your job before you go in, and get everything IN WRITING

[goalie]

If you are a college grad, I would say look into OCS. The recruiters may be less than helpful because you will not count for their monthly "quota" if you are not going into the servide as an enlisted man, but there is really no good reason not to go to in as an officer if you already have the pigskin. Personally, I did not enjoy my time in the Marines too much, but it did pay for college. :D

[stevelyn]

You have something that probably most of us who enlisted did not. You have a degree. If it were me, I would use that as leverage to get into Officer Candidate School in the branch of service of your choice. The long term benefits are much greater during and after service as a commissioned officer, compared to that of enlisted persons.
You should thoroughly research each branch that interests you, get an idea of what you want to accomplish, and make them put everything in writing.

[priv8ter]

Just to back up what everyone else has been saying, do NOT waste your college time by joining as an enlisted man. Not that being on the E side of things makes you slime or anything(I just got out of the Navy after 9 years), but you wouldn't be maximizing your potential.

And, don't fall for this:

'Well, what we will do is, send you to boot camp, and then you can apply for officer programs from there. It's much easier to get picked up once you are already enlisted!'

I've heard recruiters use this again and again, and it is somewhat true, for people without a degree already.

As for a website or forum for info...not sure about that. I know www.navyjobs.com has some stuff for the navy.

My advise is go to a local recruiting office. Ask to talk to the local officer recruiter. Not every office will have one, but there should be one per recruiting district. If you go in and give them your name and phone number, I'm sure you will be overwhelmed by the responce.

[Boats]

Well I am going to disagree with the "get it in writing" crowd a little bit.

Get what in writing? I suppose everyone knows that they'll like an MOS/Rating without being able to try it out first and will somehow know or get a straight answer about what the advancement prospects are in the recruiter's office? Like your're gonna be told that, for instance, everyone in your Electronics Technician shop aboard ship was an instacrow E-4 before hitting the fleet and you'll be damn lucky to make E-5 in your extended six year enlistment? That despite having the crow that you'll be doing the scut work of a deck ape from time to time despite your inflated rank? Ha!

When I joined the Navy, it was to be a Fire Control Technician. Great job, lots of valuable electronics skills for the civilian world, E-4 upon completion of A school. Only a six year enlistment and two inactive reserve. All guaranteed in writing.

Whoops! After boot camp I found I hated what I was doing with such a passion that I essentially quit going to class. Mercifully, I got my non-progress drop, two years cut off my enlistment, and shipped to the fleet as an "instant boatswain's mate," the school boogeyman of all the techies. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. Since I was already an E-2 out of boot, I only did about fifteen months of the deck hand experience aboard a destroyer in Hawaii before being allowed to "strike" for a rating aboard ship. I actually decided to take the Boatswain's Mate exam.

My job was physical to be sure until I made E-5, but it also is one of the few actually steeped in any military tradition. It is kind of like being an infantryman I guess. Not a lot of prestige from the more glamourously trained areas of the service, but it makes for way better memories and stories because one actually did something that is the essence of their service.

I actually sailed. I can still make the knots, navigate somewhat like a quartermaster, not run aground in a motorboat at night, shoot small arms, rig something, paint almost anything like a pro, lead people, blah, blah, blah. Most of the people I inquire of about the utility of their "military training" I find were not always able to directly translate their experience to the civilian world, especially when confronted by closed union shops. The final irony is that aboard my ship an old acquaintance from boot had gone through A and C electronics school and finally made it to the same ship some year and a half later than I did. He was an E-4 alright, but then so was I. I made E-5 on the first cycle and was frocked, he had been passed over twice already. I left the Navy two years before he did. I left at a higher rank. I got what I turned out wanting: Money for education, travel, Hawaii as a base, and a lot of fun being able to work topside rather than in some cramped and smoky AC compartment. I had to laugh everytime we onloaded supplies for deployment or went to the ammo pier and had an E-5 and below "working party," and got to watch the techies sweat for a day with me or try and shirk as much labor as they could. The lower ranked glamour boys also provided the muscle for underway refueling, which I simply directed, heaving around the refueling rig to bring the fuel probes aboard in the middle of the night. I am sure that the recruiter forgot to mention that to them.

So yeah, get it in writing, but beware what you wish for. Were I in your shoes, if I had any school debt, I'd try to get them to pay it if possible. I also second the OCS route. You might resent taking orders from "edumacated" jerks who have no more paper qualifications than you do. Become a helo pilot, that'd be too cool and in demand on the outside if you could give up flying the good stuff.

[George Dickel]

The OCS route is a good idea but understand that it is a tough course of instruction and if you don't make it, the military gets to choose what you will do for the rest of your enlistment. What ever branch needs people the most is where you will go. Infantry, cook, mechanic or whatever.
By all means go the officer route, it pays more, you have fewer bosses telling you what to do and you have a bit more lattitude in how things are run. If you decide after a few years to leave the military you will receive many solicitations from "head hunter" organizations who recruit for big business. They especially like to go for ex-officers because of the level of responsibility and experience in leadership they have vs another prospect who has no military background.

If you go enlisted, get the highest technical job you can qualify for. The military provides some of the best training in the world in many different technical specialties. I knew a Staff Sergeant who was a helicopter turbine engine mechanic. He had attended many high tech schools during his 11 years and was highly qualified. Right at re-enlistment time he was offered a job with a large airline at an obscene salary and in a management position. Naturally he took the job. Technical people are needed and contribute just as much to the effort as the combat arms. Serve your country, yes but serve yourself also.

[Dannyboy]

Go enlisted first and see whether or not you like it. Get the shortest enlistment you can get. It's probably easier to get into OCS from your unit anyway and then if you don't get through OCS you go straight back to your unit. Go enlisted and take the signing bonus. Don't take any college money because you already have your degree and the GI Bill doesn't cover graduate work. So, just take the cash.

[Russ]

Go in as an officer not as an enlisted man whatever you do.

[Khornet]

These days I'm chipping haze gray paint off my porch floor. Although I was LCDR, now I'm Bosun Mate striker Bowen. Guess I've arrived. Where do I get a needlegun?

[Ian Sean]

Khornet, you danged "zero" you!:neener:

I always prefered the machinery grey on the porch. Don't forget the red lead!

Forcefed, on military.com check out the forums, its very busy and a lot of good info can be picked up. There are a few threads for people on delayed entry, jobs, recruiting info etc....The good thing is darn near every branch is represented.

Good Luck to you and thank you in advance for your service.

[mons meg]

Don't listen to anything these guys are saying! ;)

Seriously, if you have a degree, talk to an Officer Selection Officer (OSO) instead of an enlisted-only recruiter. As for getting things in wrinting, any contract you sign will have your MOS on it if you strike a deal with them to lock one in. In quadruplicate.

OSO is the Navy/USMC term, I believe. Dunno about the Army or USAF.

[goalie]

Oh, I almost forgot: If you are enlisted, they can NEVER call you back after your EOS, which is typically 8 years including your time on active duty. If you are an officer, your ??? is the governments for LIFE!!! They can call you back, and will do so if you served in a job that they are critically low in, especially with the stuff going on in the world today. Just something to think about.

[Boats]

These days I'm chipping haze gray paint off my porch floor. Although I was LCDR, now I'm Bosun Mate striker Bowen. Guess I've arrived. Where do I get a needlegun?

Turn and burn deck ape!!! Though not ideal for removing paint from wood, (I prefer using a heat gun or carefully use a hand torch :what: to bubble it up and then gently hand scrape it off), here you go if your porch floor is concrete:

http://store3.yimg.com/I/abctoolsplus_1743_50842

Pneumatic Needle Guns for sale (http://www.abctoolsplus.com/airneedscal.html)

With all due respect sir, please buy an air compressor and hose rather than blow into the valve end of the tool.:D Of course, lifers would already have LP air lines installed in their homes.:evil:

Good luck on your porch.

[chaim]

I have more links to military sites to get more info than you would ever want right here:http://www.angelfire.com/md2/jeffg2/military.html (no forums though).

RE. officer v. enlisted if you have your degree. The conventional wisdom is go as an officer, but there are occasionally advantages for the enlisted route.

Do you have a lot of student loans? If you do, and you sign up for 3 or more years active duty in the Army they will repay $60,000 of your loans for you (lesser repayment for less time is also available)- but only for enlisted personnel. In the Army, last I checked, if you enlist with a degree they'll put you in as an E-4 (Specialist or Corporal). Current base pay for a brand new 2LT (O-1) is $2183.70 a month, for a brand new E-4 it is 1502.70. If you don't have student loan debt you may be better off as an officer, if you do you make about $6K more a year 1st year, $7.4K 2nd and $12.1K 3rd as an officer (total for 3 years about $25K). However, if you do have more than $25K in student loans you would be better off going enlisted and having $60K in loans paid for you. Officers do have a larger housing allowance if you live off base and nicer housing on-base.

What was your degree in and what do you want to do? What you want to do may not be available as an officer without an advanced degree but you may be able to do related work as an enlisted man (I have a BA in psychology, if I was to join as an officer I'd probably not be working in mental health, the only way I could be sure to go in as a mental health professional would be to get a masters in social work, a doctorate in psychology, a medical degree and psyciatric specialty or I could enlist as a behavioral specialist).

Also, if you want to fly helocopters going into the Army and getting Warrant Officer flight training may be your best bet. I'm not sure you can get gauranteed flight training in OCS and even if you can, a commissioned officer does less flying and more paperwork (and a lot of administrative duties) compared to a warrant officer. There are other jobs as well where you'd be an administrator much of the time as an officer but you'd be actually doing the job full-time as an enlistedman.

So, while there can be big advantages to joining as an officer, it isn't as cut and dry as many would have you think.

[Ebbtide]

Where do I get a needlegun?

Next to the bulkhead remover attached to 50ft of chow line inside the motorwhale. You may need to ask the OOD for the motor whale boat keys, if its locked.

:D

[Ian Sean]

I keep my needlegun on the shelf above the Steam Blanket, next to the keys for the Main Engine and the keys to the Sea Chest:neener:

[Powderman]

All valuable advice. Let me chip in.

I spent 15 years in the Army. From my experience, you have a number of choices:

1. Go in as an officer, serve some time, learn a skill, get out.

It gives you experience, and a resume.

2. Go in as an officer, make a career of it.

Nothing wrong with that. However, I will differ on one thing: it makes a LOT of difference if you go in enlisted. You will gain very valuable insight from serving on both sides of the trenches. You will also know your job better than 90% of the other officers in your branch. Moreover, remember this: Military leadership is about influencing your troops to accomplish the mission--at any cost, no matter what it takes. You have to motivate men and women to sometimes put themselves in harm's way. You might be called upon to put those troops in situations which will result in almost guaranteed injury or death.

In the civilian world, managers don't do this. Your responsibility begins and ends at your desk. As a military officer, you must be more than a manager--you must be a leader. There are many who think that they are, but durned few who fit the bill. A bit of time on the working end of that shovel, broom, paint scraper, can of grease, etc. will give you more working insight into the mind of the enlisted man or woman than 50 years of classroom instruction.

Finally, a small tale.

My son, fresh from high school, expressed an interest in joining the military. Being the ex-Army NCO in the family, I immediately had two Army recruiters talk to him. He listened, took a sample ASVAB, and had any MOS he wanted offered to him, along with healthy bonuses and other incentives.

He showed up the next day at our house with a Marine recruiter. I asked the Marine what bonuses my son would be offered. He said, "None." I asked if my son had a guarantee of duty station, and he said, "No".

I pulled my son aside and asked him what was going on.

My son said that it was his belief that our Country might go to war. (This was June of 2001.) If that happened, he said that he did NOT want the guy next to him to be thinking about his bonuses or college money.

What could I say? I signed the papers.

During his time in boot camp (MCRD San Diego) I found out a few things about the Corps.

In this region, over 300 young men and women started the selection process for the USMC. In the Army, that would mean about 250 recruits. For the Marines, 30 (about 10%) made the cut.

My son went in at 6 feet, 220 lbs, wearing size 40 pants. He finished boot camp weighing 160, wearing size 26 pants, and does 3 miles in about 18 and a half minutes.

If you take Army Ranger training, and subtract jump school, you have Marine Corps Boot Camp.

My son is now a Marine Artilleryman. I will hopefully have the honor of furnshing him with his first NCO sword, soon.

No, it isn't a way of getting rich. There are limited opportunities.

But if you even THINK about going into actual combat, and you want the absolute best chance of survival; if you intend to go into harm's way and go hands on with the enemies of our Nation--and if you're up to the challenge--the US Marine Corps awaits.

(This is from a (almost) career Army NCO:what: )

Summed up, I guess I can put it this way:

Do you want to have lots of travel ops, get some good schooling? Army, Navy, or Air Force.

Do you want to be a heartbreaker and a life taker, burned by the fire, and forged into pure combat steel? Marine Corps.

Want more info?

Go check with recruiters from all the branches of service. Pick the one that fits your game plan.

(Pssst! But go enlisted first!!;) )

[Boats]

Where do I get a needlegun?

Hey, I didn't have enough coffee yet to see the joke. My favorite location for the needlegun was always down in the hole. "BTW, get the Machinist's Punch while you're down there.":evil:

[Sir Galahad]

Get everything in writing if you go enlisted. Be aware, though, that if you flunk AIT twice, the army gets to decide where you go after that. Usually, it'll be 11Bulletstopper or a cook. Did I have regrets? Any man who says his first morning he woke up at the Repo Depot at Ft. Dix and didn't think "What the hell did I do this for?!?!" is BS-ing you. You'll kick yourself again and again. All the way through basic. It's later when it pays off. When you're applying for a good job and the you get it because being a "vet" gives you an edge (it also helps fill an employer's EEOC needs.) When your child asks, "Dad, were you ever in the army or navy?" When you see the flag in a parade and you salute it. When you realize that hot baths, not food, clean clothes, and a warm bed are not "givens" and you appreciate them so much more. When you wear your old field jacket and folks ask you about your service and thank you. When you cry when you hear the national anthem.

[Stabby]

I am currently in the process of enlisting. I went 90% through the process after HS but ended up going to college instead because I got a good offer. Took the ASVAB and scored well enough to take my pick, I was gonna go to language school to be an interpreter. Now I believe not going through with it then was a mistake.

First I read everything on the Army site and the Go Army site, and any other site that I thought might have half compotent info. Then talked to every .mil person I could find, especially those going in for the job I want. Then I hit up the Army recruiter where some more of my questions got answerd, they put me in touch with a 'cyber recruiter' whom I only corrsepond with via email, Then after got some answeres and had all the info I needed I went in for the face to face meeting with a recruiter.

The local recruiters are helping me finish up some legal issues, and drop a pound or two, (it turns out getting in shape for the Army counts as community service ;) ). I take the ASVAB again on Tuesday and physical in a month or so after I get back from Daytona. If all goes well I will enlist as 18B. Which you can indeed currently enlist as (which I had to prove the one of the recruiters I talked to).

Do your homework before you talk to anyone face to face, and look at all the of the Armed Services.

[justice4all]

Powderman said it best. If you want the guy beside you to be someone who was looking for a challenge to be the best possible warrior, join the USMC.

[mons meg]

sniff...Powderman, that brought a tear to my eye....almost! What are you all looking at?!?

(former USMCR field artillery)

[mercedesrules]

If I was your father, I would suggest that you not join the military. I would be afraid that a U.S. president would send you to your death with neither a declaration of war by congress nor a just reason for invading.

But, I'm not your father.

MR

[Destructo6]

What are you talking about? Bill Clinton's not president anymore!

[Pilgrim]

Understand that if you choose to join the officer corps, you will have to at times stand and take the heat for the screwups your men and women create.

Understand that if you choose to join the officer corps, you won't have the luxury of walking away from a stinky situation and passing the buck.

And understand that if you choose to join the officer corps, you will be expected to make decisions.

[Mr. James]

From one who couldn't serve, you all have my undying gratitude. I hope my son will choose the USMC, for the very reasons Powderman and my own friends suggest. "It's not just a job, its a VOCATION."

'Course, my son will make his own choice.

God bless you all.

[forcefed]

Wow. Thank you all for your very informative posts. I appreciate the positive responses from everyone as well as the helpful links. A lot of info was brought up that gives me even more to think about during my decision process. I am currently signed up to talk to recruiters from both the Air Force and USMC, but have mix feelings for both as well as OCS or enlisting. I understand the points brought up on becoming an officer, but can also see why enlisting makes sense. While I do want to be an officer and understand they receive a better pay rate, I feel the need for the enlisting experience to better understand my role. From the military.com forums, a lot of OCS seeking grads are getting flak from the already enlisted for their interest in joining. This is understandable, considering they know less about military life then those already living it. I for one want to go in for the same reasons everyone else in this country did the day of September 11th. At the time I was struggling between my sophomore and junior year of college and needed to prove to myself that I can finish what I started and was not trying to use my interest in the military as a way out. Well after graduation, I want in. I received my degree in business marketing, so that probably will not help me in my military career, but it helped pay off the loans(thanks ebay). I would love to fly A-10s, pilot Cobras and Apaches, and jump out of perfectly good planes. I would also love to be a mechanic, technician, or MP. Which roles are feasible for a 23yr old with a business degree…well I’ll gather all the information possible, talk to the recruiters, and see what would be the best way for me to serve this great country of ours.

Again, Thank you all very much.
-Michael

[Leaky Waders]

Hi,

I have 20 years of active duty naval service...15 years enlisted up to the paygrade of Chief, and am now a LT. Therefore my paygrade is O3e my base pay is like 5k per month. I'm currently stationed in meridian starting a 3 year tour...I'll probably extend a year then see where I get to go next. Who knows...I might make this a career ;)

To clear up one notion...officer housing is basically the same as enlisted housing - just in another neighborhood. Senior Officer housing (O-5 and above) is a little better (bigger floorplan) that's about it.

If you're going to enlist first... make sure that you are enlisted (or a warrant) for at least 4 years and one day. That will place you one the 'e' payscale when and if you are commissioned.

No one will chide you for coming in as an O. The lifestyle is much better. The enlisted lifestyle is very harsh (work hours and blue collar work). When I was enlisted the first thing I did to approaching officers is look for their good conduct ribbon (officers do not earn these - therefore it denotes a mustang). If they lacked the good conduct ribbon I searched for the sea-servcie ribbon. If they had one of these then they were either a good officer or the biggest jerk I ever met - they never seemed to be the middle of the road.

Most of the O's I've worked for are not mustangs. They are great leaders and fantastic decision makers. I've trusted them and apparently they have trusted me. One of my favorite Captains is actually retiring this month w/ only 20 years of service - family issues are kind of forcing him to leave early. If he were to stay he would be wearing a star soon.

Anyways, the military is full of bright energetic people who serve w/ a sense of honor, courage and commitment. It's a very cool community. Yes, I'm a little bias.

You'll never be rich in the military - ok I've met a few rich enlisted and officers who did very well in the stock market - but for the most part you and your family will be well cared for.

What's neat is when your talents are recognized by the civilian community - I've personally had 3 job offers in the past 2 years of 110, 120, and 150 k...and I haven't even placed a resume - it's kind of flattering. People who knew me dropped my name to 3 different places and they called me. It was neat...I'm like...do you know who you're talking too and they were yes..and said my name. It was neat...But, I'm in the navy and like it, so a few extra bucks doesnt really matter to me. I mean where else could I go shoot an mp-5 or 50 cal just for fun? Or play frisbee football on pt days, or softball, or soccer...or ride in a helo or jet just for fun?

The military has a lot to offer. It's not for everyone, but for some it's very rewarding.

Oh well, my two cents,

L.W.