[Triad]

Article (http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/496.htm)
June 5, 2003 -- Rap entrepreneur Master P has been busted at Newark Airport with six hollow-point bullets, the deadly and illegal ammo known on the streets as "cop-killers."

The Louisiana-based hip-hop star and record executive, 36, whose real name is Percy Miller, was due to board an America West flight to Los Angeles late Tuesday when he was stopped by Transport Security Administration agents.

Law-enforcement sources said the "gangsta rapper" told guards he was checking a small case which held a licensed, unloaded handgun. Officials found the six bullets in a separate magazine.

Possession of the deadly ammo is a third-degree felony in New Jersey - with probation for conviction on a first offense and up to 18 months in prison for a subsequent conviction.

The bust came three months after an aspiring rap producer was sentenced to a year in jail for stalking the platinum-selling Miller.

Antwan Baker, 32, was ordered to stay away from the record mogul for the next 10 years after first accosting him at Chicago's O'Hare Airport.

Sources said yesterday they believed that Miller had bought the gun in Louisiana and that it was properly registered.

Port Authority cops questioned the rapper, then arrested him for having the bullets. He was taken to Union County Jail in Elizabeth, issued a summons and released.

The controversial bullets, also known as "dum-dums," are designed to mushroom on impact and to cause a maximum of serious physical injury and pain to the target.

The bullets also are outlawed in New York and their use is prohibited in warfare by international treaties.

[JW2]

....six hollow-point bullets, the deadly and illegal ammo known on the streets as "cop-killers."

:rolleyes: :barf:

Look at the source of the article though. I can't say that I'm the least bit surprised.

[fatboyclone]

so merely posessing hollow points will get ya thrown in the tank? man, i'm glad i don't llive in that f'ed up state.

[Dave P]

Now you know why they are illegal:

it's the DUM-DUM Law, Stupid!

:barf: :barf:

[Blain]

the deadly and illegal ammo known on the streets as "cop-killers."


Such an ignorant reporter should be fired on the spot for making such an absurd statement!!!! :cuss: :fire: :cuss: :fire: :cuss: :fire: :cuss: :fire:

[braindead0]

Hmm, now wouldn't it be funny to mail that reporter a box full of 'dum dum' bullets..then call the cops?

[cordex]

Wait just a second here ... I thought it was AP 7,62x51 that was "armor piercing pistol ammunition" and hence "cop killer". Or was it anything using a moly or teflon coating? Or is it ... hold on ... receiving transmission ...

New definition of "Cop Killer Ammunition":
Anything with one or more of the following features:
1. Hollow point ("Dum dum")
2. Soft point ("Expanding Armor Piercing")
3. Wadcutter ("FleshCutter")
4. Round nose ("BoneBreaker")
5. Spitzer tip ("Dartlike")
6. Containing metal other than lead ("Armor Piercing")
7. Containing lead ("Poison Laced")
8. Uses any of the following words in the name: "Black", "Dark", "Talon", "Claw", "Buzzsaw", "Doom", "NyClad", "Moly-coated", "Teflon coated", "Pre-Fragmented", "Sintered", "Winchester", "Federal", "RCBD", "Remington", "ACP", "NATO", "Rimmed", etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

[geegee]

Such an ignorant reporter should be fired on the spot for making such an absurd statement!!!!
At his paper (and amongst his journalist associates), he's probably considered the firearms expert. :rolleyes: geegee

[BenW]

Well, I have to say that's the least intelligent gun related article I've read all year.:banghead:

[swingcatt]

Ahhh, the joy of a well researched news article. I am so glad to see the author researched his facts so well before he wrote such an obviously un-biased piece.

I am glad to see the current ethics in news reporting being uphelp. :scrutiny:


SC

[Flying V]

If the average competence level among plumbers were as low as it is among journalists, civilization would collapse.

[Cosmoline]

Is it really a FELONY to have HP ammo in New Jersey? !??

[Edward429451]

Yep. But doan feel left out...

Coming soon to a town near you...

[Double Naught Spy]

New Jersey does not allow one to have hollowpoint ammo. Whether it is a felony or not, I don't know. What I do know is that even some of the law enforcement in NJ is ignorant about ammo and specifically about hollowpoints. On a particular episode of COPS, the officers examine a suspect's gun and the bullets it contained. The cop refers to the rounds as "cop-killer bullets" and notes that they are designed specifically to penetrate bullet proof vests and kill police officers. The rounds in question were hollowpoint rounds and if the officers had any insight into the ammo and how ballistic vests worked, they would realize that hollowpoint pistol ammo is LESS likely to pentrate ballistic vests as compared to simple ball ammo. The vest 'catches' the slug and as the slug pushes against the material, it becomes at the apex of the impact as in a cone of kevlar. At that point, the hollowpoint is subjected to pressure from the sides of the cone. What this does is to actually force closed the hollowpoint mouth and the round mushrooms behind the mouth.

[Cosmoline]

"Coming soon to a town near you..."

Over my dead body it is! :fire:

[Penforhire]

Wow. And I thought we had it bad in CA. So basically guns are legal but the most effective ammunition is not? Swell. The next step is to reduce allowed velocity and maybe caliber. Then a big stick will become more and more attractive.

Oh wait, we are about to ban .50's and up here. Grrrr...

[Skunkabilly]

I don't know where to start...ok I do now.

Master P

Isn't it Masta P?

the deadly and illegal ammo known on the streets as "cop-killers."

Cop killers? Because cops carry them and might shoot themselves with them??? :banghead:

Antwan Baker, 32, was ordered to stay away from the record mogul for the next 10 years after first accosting him at Chicago's O'Hare Airport.

OOoh whole lotta good that's gonna do. Stop. Or else we'll tell you stay even farther away next time! Bad stalker bad stalker!!!

The controversial bullets, also known as "dum-dums," are designed to mushroom on impact and to cause a maximum of serious physical injury and pain to the target.

As opposed to the bullets that don't hurt?

:banghead:

And why was he only carrying 6 rounds in a mag?

[blackhawk2000]

The controversial bullets, also known as "dum-dums," are designed to mushroom on impact and to cause a maximum of serious physical injury and pain to the target.



I don't know if the police use them or not, but if they do they should be banned for them too. Sounds like cruel and unusual punishment by the above definition to me.

[BLiTzNicK]

And why was he only carrying 6 rounds in a mag?

Maybe he had a 6 round mag:confused:

[Wayne D]

Another great example of a law that does nothing but turn legal gun owners into criminals. :rolleyes:

[Sulaco]

Long live Dixie!

Where is this New Jersey place you speak of anyway?

:neener:

[BOBE]

The real "dum-dum" is the guy who wrote the piece.

[Nightfall]

I suppose if one can't outlaw guns outright, one has only to outlaw every possible thing that could come out the barrel, right? "Cop-killing" HP bullets are as good a place to start as any. Next up: .50 cal. After that: those 9mm rounds that only gangstas use. :barf:

[mephisto]

This is how they will get us. They cant get rid of guns so they will outlaw all forms of ammo.

[Kevlarman]

I wouldn't be surprised if the reporter mistook "magazine" for "speedloader" and "bullets" for "cartridges."

We'll see.

[jsalcedo]

---------------------------------------------------------------
And why was he only carrying 6 rounds in a mag?
----------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe it was a Davis .380

I've got a Nickel plated one and everyone calls it Bling Bling.

[Zundfolge]

The controversial bullets, also known as "dum-dums," are designed to mushroom on impact and to cause a maximum of serious physical injury and pain to the target.
As opposed to the FMJs that just go right through the badguy and into some poor bastard in the next room ... we'd much rather people use those then evil JHPs :rolleyes:

And why was he only carrying 6 rounds in a mag?
Kahr MK9 only carries 6 in the mag (my MK40 only carries 5)

[axeman_g]

It may not be my best effort ... but I had to get it out.... I feel better now


Jamie,

Your article concerning the arrest of Masta P (not Mister P) in possession of Hollow Point ammunition was beyond comical. Your readers are now stupider for having read the article.
Hollow Point ammunition is not called "Dum Dums". What you are referring to are rounds that tumble upon impact with a solid mass, such as the rifle round used by U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. Nor, are Hollow Point rounds called "Cop Killers". Hollow Point rounds do not function as intended upon impact with a Kevlar vest. The round will not "mushroom" or open and deform as designed once slowed by the Kevlar vest worn by police officers, seriously limit the rounds capabilities. Hollow Point ammunition is designed as personal defense ammunition, to stop an assailant as quickly as possible. I don’t think I personally would like to give an assailant as many chances as he could get to hurt my family or myself. I want the threat that he or she poses to us as over as quickly as possible.
Masta P legally owned and possessed a handgun to defend himself against at least one deranged individual. Restraining orders are only worth the paper they are written on. I ask you to go research the number of restraining orders that are violated a day in NYC. Masta P has a right to protect himself from this individual and I am sure there are additional people that he is concerned with in this world.
It is a shame that the States Of New Jersey and New York feel the need to infringe upon its’ citizens rights to defend themselves as Masta P was doing. The state or the police are no longer in the business of stopping crimes; they are in the business of solving crimes. Their organizations are setup to prove quilt not protect. Please look into the amount of expenditures the NYC Police Department incurs on lab analysis of crime scene evidence a year versus what it would cost to add more officers to local precincts to walk street beats. The lab tech does not protect the citizens of NYC nearly as well as an officer walking a known territory.
Please Jamie, use your research tools before you rip off another 200 words concerning a subject you know nothing about. As a word of advice, a security guard from Newark Airport is not a Subject Matter Expert on firearms or ammunition. Your readership can’t afford to be continually fed bad information.

Sincerely,
G**** ****n

[newman32]

Hi everyone - new guy here. Being from NJ, I just had to clear up a few things. (and stand up for my awesome state :barf: ) In NJ, hollow points are NOT illegal. You can buy them, transport them home or to a range, and keep 'em in your gun. Possessing hollow points is only a crime when used in conjunction with another crime. (Ex. Rob a bank is a crime, each of the 6 hollow point bullets in the gun you brandished when robbing the bank will get you 6 additional charges filed against you) Follow? Problem is that the general assumption is they are alltogeather illegal. Not true. LEOs are usually uninformed on the issue (as are most other people) and arrests are made when they shouldn't be. Thanks, and great forum!

[Powderman]

Someone please post a link to the newspaper that carried that article.

[Standing Wolf]

You couldn't pay me to live in that pit.

[tyme]

This article says 8 rounds, and arrest for "illegal use of ammunition" (I guess trying to check ammunition is illegal in the PRNJ :rolleyes: )
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1472314/20030605/master_p.jhtml?headlines=true

Just noticed an earlier NY Post story... claiming Masta P was trying to carry the bullets onto the plane.
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/415.htm

I wish reporters would grow up and get the facts before publishing. This is absurd.

Everyone with free LD might want to call the Union County PD and tell them how much you appreciate them making the PRNJ a safer place for criminals.

http://www.unioncountynj.org/police/Contact.htm

Union County Police Department
300 North Avenue East, Westfield, New Jersey 07090
Phone: (908)654-9800
Fax: (908)654-9872
ucpd@ucnj.org

[John Harrison]

Hi everyone - new guy here. Being from NJ, I just had to clear up a few things. (and stand up for my awesome state ) In NJ, hollow points are NOT illegal. You can buy them, transport them home or to a range, and keep 'em in your gun. Possessing hollow points is only a crime when used in conjunction with another crime. (Ex. Rob a bank is a crime, each of the 6 hollow point bullets in the gun you brandished when robbing the bank will get you 6 additional charges filed against you) Follow? Problem is that the general assumption is they are alltogeather illegal. Not true.

According to this page (http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_hollow.html) , it gets a bit weird if you try to leave NJ with HP ammo. As long as you keep it at home you are OK. :barf:

[Edward429451]

Over my dead body it is!

Thats the kind of right wing, gun nut, extremist talk that



















we need to hear more of! Well said.:D

[tyme]

No help from thesmokinggun...

From: AndrewGoldberg (TSG editor)
Subject: Re: Masta P

i saw the story in the ny post this morning. they were reporting six hollow-point bullets were in his possession. the port authority cops made the arrest and the union county sheriff processed him--i spoke to them and but they don't release mug shots. as for the report from the pa cops--i don't think i'm going to take a run at it without the possibility of a photo.

regards,
andrew

[RCL]

Last I knew, hollow points are legal in New York, at least in this end of the state. :confused:

[Erik]

Why the people of NJ allowed their state to deteriorate so much is beyond me.

Erik - with lots of relatives in the Garden State.

[WonderNine]

Hollowpoint cop killers? Okaaaaaaaaaay....

[GSB]

The law is as follows:

2C:39-2 f. (1)Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet ... is guilty of a crime in the fourth degree.

Section 39-6 is lengthy and spells out what occupations are exempt (cops, parole officers, transit officers, etc. etc. etc)

[Frohickey]

Rap entrepreneur Master P has been busted at Newark Airport with six hollow-point bullets, the deadly and illegal ammo known on the streets as "cop-killers."

The controversial bullets, also known as "dum-dums," are designed to mushroom on impact and to cause a maximum of serious physical injury and pain to the target.

The bullets also are outlawed in New York and their use is prohibited in warfare by international treaties.

Master P did not sign the international treaty and was not travelling internationally. Also, Master P is not a soldier and therefore, not at war with another country that signed the international treaty.

If hollow-point bullets are known on the streets as 'cop-killer' bullets, why are these same bullets carried by cops? Is it that cops use these to shoot and kill other cops?

[ZekeLuvs1911]

Just a to let everybody know, hollow points are legal to purchase in NJ for target shooting, transporting between the home and said range and also for storage at home. To carry it outside of those conditions makes it a felony. You may also use it in defense of your home but it may be a better idea to us FMJ only.

Here is the law explained by Evan Nappen Esq.-Attorney at Law specializing in Firearms issues in NJ.

N.J.S. 2C:39-6f States that hollow point ammunition is prohibited unless a person is engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S. 2C:39-6f which includes hunting and target shooting. A person may keep this ammunition "at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him" and may carry such from the place of purchase to the above locations. L.E. and military personnel are also exempt.

[Peetmoss]

I think this reporter needs to get his facts straight. HP bullets are perfectly legal in NYS. You can buy them at any store that sells handgun ammo, even Wally World.

Maybe he was talking about NYC who knows thats a whole nother state in its self when it comes to guns and ammo. But if he was he should clarify his statements. It burns my butt when people lump all of NY with NYC. My favorite is when someone finds out your from NY and asks if you have been mugged. My response NOPE but have you ever been cow tipping it sure is fun LOL.

[Atticus]

Does anyone ever take ten minutes to write these bozo reporters and editors and set them straight?

[gunsmith]

Does anyone ever take ten minutes to write these bozo reporters and editors and set them straight? We do all the time but the bozo's own the paper and only print what they want to :banghead:
I hardly ever buy newspapers anymore

[gwalchmai]

axeman_g wrote:
Hollow Point ammunition is not called "Dum Dums". What you are referring to are rounds that tumble upon impact with a solid mass, such as the rifle round used by U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. I always though "Dum Dum" was a generic term referring to any expanding bullet, including hollowpoints. IIRC, they were named for the British armory in DumDum, India, where they were first produced in large scale for the British forces against the Indians.

[MrAcheson]

Frohickey,

IIRC the US didn't sign the Hague Accords either, but we still act like we did.

[Dave Markowitz]

What you are referring to are rounds that tumble upon impact with a solid mass, such as the rifle round used by U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Sorry, this is incorrect. "Dum Dum" properly refers to .303 hollowpoint rounds originating from the Dum Dum arsenal in India under British rule. The term does not apply to fragmenting rounds such as the bullets fired from military 5.56mm loads.

[DadOfThree]

Possession of the deadly ammo is a third-degree felony in New Jersey
BWHA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA
I guess you can only have non-deadly ammo in NJ. Kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it? :D

[geekWithA.45]

There is an HP law in NJ, but it's intent is as a sentencing law, to be used in conjunction with other charges, like, say, armed robbery.

You can buy HP in Jersey, you can have (and use, if need be) in your house for your defense, you may have it to and from the range/your place of residence, and you may have them when hunting, and it's appropriate to do so.

This is the first I've heard of the HP ban being a "stand alone" prosecution.

Another note: the "search" that discovered the HP is dubious.

-----------------------
EVEN IF you are one of the 732 blessed carry permit holders in this state, you may NOT carry HP ammo.

I once heard EFMJ whiningly described as developed for "the retired police officers, who can't carry HP"

My response was, "that's all well and good for the retired cops, but what about the non retired civilians?"
-----------------------
Another note: NJ law doesn't have a distinction between felony and misdemeanor. It only has "crimes of the 1-4 degree", 1 being the worst, and "disorderly persons" offenses, such as wandering around town in a drunken stupor.

[Frohickey]

Hello,

I read Jaime Schram's article about Percy Miller's arrest for possession of ammunition and I have a few questions and comments.

"Rap entrepreneur Master P has been busted at Newark Airport with six hollow-point bullets, the deadly and illegal ammo known on the streets as "cop-killers."

If hollow point bullets are deadly and illegal ammo known on the streets as 'cop-killers', why do police carry ammunition with hollow point bullets in their duty weapons? Is it because that police shoot and kill other police? Or is it because that hollow-point bullets are more likely to expend their energy sooner, to minimize going through barriers and injuring innocent bystanders?

Seems that Mr Percy Miller was being stalked by Antwan Baker, and he needed the handgun and ammunition to protect himself.

"The bullets also are outlawed in New York and their use is prohibited in warfare by international treaties."

Also, hollow-point bullets are not controversial, or else why would police departments all across the United States and other countries use such ammunition in their duty firearms. Mr. Percy Miller is not engaged in war with foreign countries, so why should he be prohibited to use it. Seems to me that the best type of ammunition to use to protect yourself would be the same type of ammunition that police use to protect themselves.

Thank you for listening, but please do more research,

[ShaiVong]

Apparently COPS are the most dangerous cop-killers!



[Off-topic pornographic link removed by moderator.]

[rperry03]

I used to live in NJ, but never again unless the voters get smart!

You can poses hollow points in NJ like a few other people had mentioned, but after reading the article the person in question did not commit a crime. He will win in court.

[geegee]

Apparently COPS are the most dangerous cop-killers!
Be WARNED: That's a Porno link. geegee

[Rovert]

Guys, I also had to jump into the fray. My response to the NYP below.

However, to thsoe who wonder why we "let" things get so out of hand, it's because of a number of reasons:

1) Gun owners tend to bellyache first, and take action second, which also applies to voting.

2) The state tends to lean toward the left, because of the need for social programs, therefore, those programs bring votes for Dems, who bring with them the gun control program. We've turned the concept of political corruption into a high art form as a result. Just look at what happened with the Torricelli/Lautenberg bait & switch, and you'll know what I mean.

3) The NRA has abandoned us. We believe that select states are being held up as "sacrificial lambs" so that the rest of you guys will feel pressured into donating more. Their legacy of complacency, and failed back door dealings has led to the demise of our freedoms here in the Garden State, starting with guns, and leading right up to just about everything else.

4) We need all the help we can get. Our organization is just getting started, but for those of you in outlying states that think you're safe, keep in mind that gun control is like cancer, and needs to be treated at the source. If you're able to do so, please become a member, or donate, so we can get into the fight.



=========
Please be advised that Jamie Schram's article regarding Master P is rife with inaccuracies.

Hollow point bullets are the most humane type of ammunition for self-defense, as they stop an attack faster, thereby protecting the victim, and are also safer for bystanders in the event that they must be used. Have we forgotten that self-defense is an honorable, praiseworthy notion, and that we have an obligation to protect ourselves?

Furthermore, the term 'dum dum' bullets is a misnomer, incorrectly applied to HP ammunition, and the irresponsible use of the inflammatory term "cop killer" is again, not correct, as those those types of bullets are completely different than those in question.

Lastly, this type of ammunition is NOT illegal in New Jersey, and your reporter is as well informed as the law enforcement officers that mistakenly arrested the rapper, who is by now, no doubt, released with no charges filed.

On behalf of the New Jersey Coalition for Self Defense, we would like to remind you, and the public, that armed Americans prevent over 2 million crimes per year, far outweighing the few occasional incidences of firearms gone awry that always seem to capture the imagination of reporters, more so than the facts, and the truth.

We invite you, or any of your fellow media associates, to contact us to attend a Media Day designed for those in your trade, to learn about the subject upon which you're reporting, so that you may accurately inform the public without bias, using correct terminilogy and factual information.

Please visit us on the web at www.njcsd.org or call us at 732-247-2282 to reach one of our representatives.

Thank you for your kind indulgence.

Yours truly,
Robert Kreisler
President
NJCSD

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Well said, Rovert! However, you may be in a pi**ing match with a skunk here. The usual rules of reporting n honest media are:

Get it.
Get it right.
Get it first.

OTOH, the NYP's rules are:

Get it loud.
Get it in 100-point print.
Get it with teeny little words.

Where is this New Jersey place you speak of anyway?A province within the small third-world dictatorship of Democratia which borders the northeast United States. Other provinces of Democratia include Downstate New York and Rhode Island.

- pdmoderator

[Edward429451]

Don't it just tee you off to believe something as truth for so long as commonly held fact, then it turnd out to be a deception?:fire:

We probably dont really have to pay income taxes and tax stamps for class 3 weapons either.

Doesn't mean you wont be arrested for it though.:cuss:

[TheOtherOne]

So according to NJ law, Hollow Points are only illegal if you are committing a crime with them!? Duh! :rolleyes:

If I had the money Master P does for good lawyers then I would turn this around on them so hard. I would sue the airport, the police, the city, the county, the state, and whoever else looked at me funny while being falsely arrested.

But, he'll probably just use his lawyers to get the charges dropped and then forget it about.

[DFBonnett]

Amazing when you think that, 10 minutes away in Port Elizabeth, if you can't locate a real AKM for sale within a half hour, you're not trying.

[Tim Currie]

I really hope he gets a team of attornys out there and makes a big fuss of it, maybe set them straight just a little... geez.