[BigFatKen]

I got above for iron sighted turkey shooting in Alabama from a sandbag. Am I supposted to grip it tightly or how much control pressure to apply?

I must use iron sights. The last T/C I had was 7mm Waters with 7x scope and grouped 1.5" at 100 yards with handloads. Now I'm doing 3" at 25 yards. I'll miss the turkey that way at 75 yards.

I am mostly just resting it on bag, trying to keep the same grip pressure. I think its me, but I just bought a box of premimum ammo. Not tried that yet. I'm, shooting cheap UMC FMJ 55gr ammo.

What to try? I know, practice, practice, practice and write again in a month, but I don't want to ingrain any bad habits.

[M2 Carbine]

I use a 5x scope on mine.
I just lay it on a sandbag and hold it two handed like a normal pistol.

That 14 inch barrel is VERY accurate.
It will shoot sub 1 inch at 100 yards.

The only problem I have with mine is the extractor is too weak and actually bends, especially when trying to extract a reloaded case.

[BigFatKen]

I'll try two hands.

[Walkalong]

Where in Alabama? I'm in Mont.

[critter]

Rest the forearm (NOT the barrel) on a sandbag, edge of the blind, etc. DO NOT let the trigger guard rest on or against anything. Hold the grip-probably with both hands-tightly but not so much as to trimble. Hold it as consistantly as you possibly can. DO NOT let the barrel, grip or anything contact ANYTHING on recoil. These tips have been passed on to me and seem to work with mine (identical to yours) and it will shoot 3/8" groups at 100 yds with handloads. (scoped BTW)

Good luck on the turkeys. Handgun hunting is a blast!

[db_tanker]

Ken,

First off, congrats on an excellent choice of barrels...my 12" is nicknamed "Smiley" due to the grins people get when they shoot it. :)

Now...down to what you are asking...all the advice given has been solid.

I am thinking however that your handloads may be the item to look at here...

What bullet weight are you using? These 223 TC barrels have a slower twist and prefer the lighter bullets...mine will shoot comfortably with 55 gr. bullets...62 gr. is the very ragged edge of what it can handle...I think they have a 1-10 or 1-12 twist rate.

I also stick with ball powders like BLC2 and H-335 for my target loads.

Hope this helps, Ken!
D

[HSMITH]

I shoot mine with VERY VERY light grip pressure, just enough to hold the gun. It is the most consistent way to shoot it, with any grip pressure at all I get vertical stringing of the shots. Shooting with almost no grip pressure mine will shoot under 2" at 200 yards. The gun will jump but it isn't going anywhere, let it jump.

[Okiecruffler]

I'm another light hander, seems like the tighter I hold it the wider my groups get. Recoil isn't enough that I worry about losing my grip. Biggest problem might be that UMC ammo.

[BigFatKen]

Where in Alabama? I'm in Mont.
I live 5 miles west of Duck Crossing but iron sights are required Statewide. I'm guessing that is not much help; so 33 miles west of Auburn, go Tigers.

Rest the forearm (NOT the barrel) on a sandbag, edge of the blind, etc. DO NOT let the trigger guard rest on or against anything. Hold the grip-probably with both hands-tightly but not so much as to trimble. Hold it as consistantly as you possibly can. DO NOT let the barrel, grip or anything contact ANYTHING on recoil.

I shoot mine with VERY VERY light grip pressure,
There seems to be a choice here. I will try two hands on the grip handle, forearm on bag, and a medium amount of squeeze pressure on the grip. I think medium or light will be more a more constant hold for me.

I have been sloppy in some of these things. My rest bag is of full of 18 # of rice if that means anything and has a carring strap that I have been getting the pistol caught on in recoil during practice.I'm now sure that caused some high hits. I am turnimg the bag around.

I am thinking however that your handloads may be the item to look at here...
Biggest problem might be that UMC ammo.
I just got 200 Wolf 55gr for $36. If thats bad, the Wolf is likely worse. It is still breaking-in. I think, from what Ya'll have said, my problem is an inconsistent grip hold. When I make some target handloads, it will be the UMC brass, Sierra bullets, BLC2 powder and a mild charge. I must use Soft Points for the season. Any good ideas? I want to eat at least some turkey.

My range of fire is 170 yards but I was going to limit myself to long shotgun ranges unless or until I get a lot better.

These 223 TC barrels have a slower twist and

I see it is stamped ENCORE. I am not yet using handloads. I was shooting 10 year old UMC FMJ 55 gr ........ ran out .... Lee loader in the mail. I have 200 Serria 55gr metal jacket bullets I got in a going out of business sale 20 years ago for a 2 cents. . Pointed BT with exposed bases. I am waiting for a trip to Auburn to buy powder and small rifle primers. I have never loaded .224 or small primers. Just 6mm and up.

I also stick with ball powders like BLC2
I have 1/3 pound BL-C2 left.


The only problem I have with mine is the extractor is too weak and actually bends, especially when trying to extract a reloaded case.
I noticed hard extraction but not with 5 shot groups. It happened 4 times and always the 8 or more in a string of 10. I am just re-learning on this and I will shoot 5 shot groups. I used a ramrod to loosen cases afer the first hard extraction. Thanks on the tip on this. If you did not warn me of this, I would have not brought a ramrod. I always get the lemon.

http://www.artworkbyandy.com/Shack.jpg

[hagar]

The 14 inch 223 barrel is probably one of the most accurate barrels I have ever shot. When I first got it, before I mounted a scope on it, I shot it at an NRA highpower target at 100 yards off a bench. I could not see the bullet holes through my cheap scope, kept shooting and shooting, and when I walked downrange they were all in the X of the X-ring, 10 of them clustered in a group less than 3/4 inch big. I just stared wide eyed at this, could not believe that an iron sighted firearm could shoot like this. Wish I could shoot that good standing up on my hind legs! When I put a Burris 2.5-7 scope on it, I routinely shot groups as small as .25 inch at 100 yards if I could hold it still enough. Even shaking like a leaf, .75 inch groups were easy. Just make sure you rest it on a soft sandbag and have proper breathing and trigger control.

[BigFatKen]

proper breathing
Thank you. I did not concern myself with this detail. I have not really been presision shooting since 1989 when I moved out of Southern Wis. There, I hit a deer at 240 yards with the 7mm Waters. with 120gr bullet over 38 gr of 4064. A piece of me started floating around under the web of my right hand in the "web of skin" between the thumb and index finger. After a few years of not shooting it, it just went away. I thought it was time to sell the t/c.

My hunting in northern Wis was 60 yards or less. My deer hunting in Alabama is limited to the same 170 yards. From a shack, rest, with a .270 scoped rifle, waiting for standing only deer, its not hard shooting. Three years, 12 shots, 12 deer.

[Okiecruffler]

I'd chunk that wolf ammo just as far away from me as possible. I've used thousands of rounds of wolf 7.62X39, 9mm and 45acp with out problem. Tried some 223 in my contender, the case seperated sending alot of brass shards down by barrel.

[ACORN]

When I had mine it was scary accurate. I'd rest the forend and butt both on sand bags. I'd put no pressure anywhere. Hold with one hand only, and squeeze the rear (butt) sand bag to raise the cross-hairs to the target. I shot honest sub 3/8" 3 shot groups.

[db_tanker]

Ken,

to be honest, I am unsure of what the barrel twist would be on the Encore as that is what you have.

And if it isn't a custom barrel, then it should be a 15" barrel as that is the standard length on the Encore.

Still, shouldn't make a diffrence as to twist rate, I THINK.

Either a Barnes Triple-shok or a Nosler Partition should do what you need with minimal tissue damage I feel.

D

[BigFatKen]

then it should be a 15" barrel as that is the standard length on the Encore.
Still, shouldn't make a diffrence as to twist rate, I THINK.
Either a Barnes Triple-shok or a Nosler Partition should do what you need with minimal tissue damage I feel.
I just ordered the longest I could without having unlawful rifle problems. So if you say it is 15" you are correct. I was just guessing.

Its the minimal issue damage I am looing for, thank you.

[BigFatKen]

http://www.artworkbyandy.com/Red_Warriors/125inch.JPG

The base of the square is the aim point.

I have been practicing and first, the pistol is breaking in and opens far easier. The Wolf ammo shot above and about every third shot I used a ramrod to give the stuck case a little tap. I don't want break the extractor this close to the season. Barrel hot or cold was no difference.

I'm getting better, thanks for all the suggestion. The very very light hold is what is going to work for me. I am making sure that the pistol is lined up with the target and if I release my hands, it is still is pointing at the target. This gave me the biggest improvement

[Smith357]

My 14" .223 is a sub MOA shooter using 45 grain Ballistic Tips, Varget, and a Burris 2x7. When I'm on the bench I use a BR style setup for testing, in the field I use a Harris Bi-pod and a small bean bag for the resting the grip. I can't really shoot it offhand very well due to the nose heavy layout, and I have tried holding the forearm, the standard push pull grip, and using a sling. The sling method worked best for a free hold, but not near as well as the bi-pod.

[byf43]

Ken,

Everything that I've read sofar is spot on.

When I was shooting the TC, I found that the standard finger-groove stocks were too small for my 'ham hands'. I put a '1st Generation' stock with the pronounced thumbrest on my TC, and my groups got much smaller.
That said, I noticed that you have the Encore. You may or may not have grip-stock options. (??????????)

Next thought. . .
Trigger finger.
Again, I am 'ham handed'. The edge of the trigger would literally cut my trigger finger.
For consistency and to protect my finger, I would put a band-aid on my finger (across the knuckle joint) so that I couldn't feel the trigger and force myself to use the 'pad' of my index finger.
This had a double (positive) effect.
1. I didn't cut my finger, any longer. (Yippie!)
2. I got a more consistent trigger release. Better groups. Better scores.

As for ammo, pick up a box or two of Federal brand. I've had great success with Federal ammo, in the past. VERY consistent accuracy.

[Geno]

T/C's Facts & Preferences and My Experiences:

T/C Facts and Preferences:
1. All T/Cs are life-time guaranteed to shoot sub-MOA with handloads.
2. T/C prefers that customers use handloads.
3. T/C still holds the world record for accuracy (.75" by 3.5" at either 500 yards or meters)
4. T/C's world record was established with iron sights. :D

My Experiences:
1. Zero doubt, canting is the pistolero’s worst enemy!!!
2. Correct cant by using a very short bi-pod on the fore end, and resting the pistol’s grip on a sandbag.
3. Set your trigger the very lightest you can set it.
4. For your handloads, use a fast-burn powder due to the short barrel.
5. Apply contrasting colors of florescent paint to the front/rear sights if you use iron sights (i.e. orange on the rear and yellow on the front).
6. Use a very thin, very tight-fitting leather glove on the shooting hand, if you use the factory grip. I use a Wilson handball glove.
7. I strongly suggest forgetting the factory grip…get a Pachmyer. That will be my next purchase when my Wilson glove wears out. Here is the MidwayUSA link: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=589251

Doc2005

[hagar]

And don't shoot any 5.56 ammo in it, use 223 only. There is a big difference, enough to blow primers or rupture cases. I would not shoot Wolf in my TC if you paid me.

[Geno]

Wolf .223 is both steel cased, and steel projectile. I can see that ammo destroying a T/C's non-chromed bored really fast. :banghead: That would kill the accuracy factor real fast.

[Rod1970]

@ hagar : i found this on the net :

****
The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat.
****
But seriously, i know there's difference in military ammo and sporting ammo (military ammo only has to be powerfull and work while sporters want 100% accuracy in my opinion, so it's alway best to handload and find the best values for your specific gun) but besides the point of pressure (for which i think the contender can handle anyway but mind: higher speeds do wear barrels quicker) has anyone seen differences in cartridge / bullet sizes ?

i'm from the Netherlands / europe and as far as i know 5,56 Nato = .223 rem (and sure not every barrel and chamber is the same but that's why we handload and tune)

The other thing is that when i shoot my .223 21" barrel and i use factory ammo the barrel closes tight and after shooting there's a small ring of copper on top of the brass cartridge that has been cut from the bullet's jacket. Do more people have that or do i just have a tight (short) chamber. ( it feels like pressure is higher than normal although cartridge and primer don't indicate problems. But the ring that comes of indicates that the bullet is held or "crimped" into the cartrdige)

Although i read it before i never had pieces coming of the cartridge. I find the .223 to be quite strong. I have resized many to 7mm TCU (awesome cartridge :) ) making the neck a lot thinner. I just take a .223 and only neck size it to 7 mm without annealing / fireforming or anything. I load it with 162 SPBT grain bullets and 27 gr. off accurate 2230 powder (max load) and i have yet to see pieces coming off the cartridge. After two or three times of reloading they are pretty much worn and they can show cracks on the now ultra-thin neck so normally i just use them twice, there are many .223 laying around the range here so i don't really care... The result is awesome : groups 2" diameter at 110 yards / a 30" bright white flame and true dolby THX sound :D :D :D
And recoil ? mwah, i just let it jump ... no probs... first shoot a 500 grainer from a .45-70 barrel (mine is 16") and you can handle anything....

wow long story... i stop typing now.. :)