What thing (law, practice, etc.) most infringes on our right to carry?


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ShooterMcGavin
February 20, 2007, 08:16 PM
Just like the title says.... What law (or other 'thing') is the greatest infringement on our right to carry?

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NukemJim
February 20, 2007, 08:28 PM
Illinois State Law

NukemJim

HuntCast
February 20, 2007, 08:31 PM
Judges who can not or will not understand the constitution.

rangerruck
February 20, 2007, 08:48 PM
two things, the ultra loose interpretation of 'intrastate law' juxtaposed with ''the good of the people' and 'to promote the general welfare' . these are horribly used against us. Also , believe it or not , the 16th amendment is literally used as a catch all by the government , to do what they think is ' fair and equitable,' between two or more parties, or to stop that which is harmful, or they deem harmful, to them, also known as federal government.

Baba Louie
February 20, 2007, 09:18 PM
Criminals using firearms for evil intent and the ensuing laws/ordinances passed which are devised to add more weight and time to the offender's sentence once they're caught and tried.

Remember the line from the movie Tombstone where newly appointed Marshall Virgil Earp tells the crowd, "I'm not saying you can't own a gun. I'm not saying you can't carry a gun. I'm only saying you can't carry a gun IN TOWN!"

Ordinances like that aren't passed due to the law abiding citizen's actions, are they?

meef
February 20, 2007, 09:22 PM
How about the far left liberal wing of the Democratic Party?

What could infringe more than that?

:mad:

gunsmith
February 20, 2007, 09:32 PM
rino's are just as bad if not worse.

antsi
February 20, 2007, 09:35 PM
For me, as a practical day-to-day matter, the greatest limit on my RKBA is my employer's policy. Can't carry at work, can't carry to and from work. That's a lot of "can't carry" in my week.

meef
February 20, 2007, 10:09 PM
gunsmith:meef
rino's are just as bad if not worse.No major argument there. It's just that the Democrats are more organized and vehement about obliterating the Second Amendment. I tend to think the RINOs are a bit more indifferent.

ShooterMcGavin
February 20, 2007, 10:19 PM
For me, as a practical day-to-day matter, the greatest limit on my RKBA is my employer's policy. Can't carry at work, can't carry to and from work. That's a lot of "can't carry" in my week.
That's my biggest problem!!! It's annoying because my company's rule states that guns cannot even be locked in your car on company property. I still carry everyday and keep it in my car.

How about the far left liberal wing of the Democratic Party?

What could infringe more than that?
Yep. The liberal left is the biggest opponent to the Constitution itself.

Zen21Tao
February 20, 2007, 10:33 PM
L I B E R A L S !!!!

Anon
February 20, 2007, 10:35 PM
1. Finding clothes that meet my needs, and still allow me to carry.
2. My wife doesn't like it.

Thain
February 20, 2007, 11:04 PM
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

As much as I love the 2A, the Framers have caused us a century of greif because of the way they worded this ammendment. Half the gun-control laws on the books are based on the fact that "well regulated" does not mean today what it did in the 1780's.

Plus, ever since the 1980's we've had this whole dang "collective right" meme floating around. :uhoh: See my sig for the way I feel about that. :barf:

Bazooka Joe71
February 20, 2007, 11:09 PM
The dumb-ocrats....Oops, I mean democrats.:D

HonorsDaddy
February 21, 2007, 11:34 AM
Ourselves.

WE allowed this to happen people. Blame anyone else you want, but the ultimate blame lays firmly upon our shoulders.

Compare the reaction of gun rights supporters with those who supported and worked for changes in civil rights law, slavery or women's suffrage. We have been largely passive - afraid to take a stand because we're more worried about possible additional restrictions.

This is a mess of our own making.

Outlaw Man
February 21, 2007, 11:41 AM
Arkansas's restrictions on places you can carry. My last state representative always put up a good fight trying to get those restrictions removed. Unfortunately, they redrew the boundaries and I'm no longer one of his constituents. :(

skinnyguy
February 21, 2007, 11:48 AM
Honorsdaddy -
Well said. Sad, but true.

Wesson Smith
February 21, 2007, 11:51 AM
My initial response would be the fact that there are any
restrictions at all, but that's wishful thinking. :(

That aside, I'd have to say that it would be the
"in plain sight" at all times carry restriction inside a
motor vehicle. Fortunately (in Ohio) that restriction
was legislated out, and becomes law in March.
The other would be that (again in Ohio) I have to
pull my vehicle over and lock my carry weapon in the glove
box everytime I am approaching a school zone. Absolute
rubbish. :fire:

romma
February 21, 2007, 01:51 PM
metal detectors...

ArfinGreebly
February 21, 2007, 02:01 PM
The mindset of our current "culture" is the direct and deliberate result of decades of systematic misinformation, disinformation, information denial, and moral grooming by embedded socialists in our education system.

Until you fix that, the problem will persist.

If you're taught, from childhood, to fear something because it's evil and dangerous, there is much to unlearn before any progress is made.

Fix education.

Sylvan-Forge
February 21, 2007, 02:32 PM
Indeed, HonorsDaddy & ArfinGreebly.

I think it's high-time to go from the state skirmishes and into the federal theater.

The couple holdout states will lockstep.

It's time to go mainstream.

DMK
February 21, 2007, 02:33 PM
Especially when they are combined.

These are the two things that the anti-gun proponents use to their greatest advantage.

An example of ignorance: Putting a sign up indicating "no guns are allowed" will prevent someone with ill intent from coming in and shooting people inside.

An example of emotion: "Anyone you walk by in a mall might be carrying a gun and could just pull it out and start shooting people."

An example of both combined: "Just think about the risk to our children with all those people carrying concealed guns in playgrounds and parks. We must ban guns from parks and playgrounds."

JohnL2
February 21, 2007, 03:20 PM
I call it "The McDonald's education system".
Tasty and for the masses. But ultimately lousy for you.

ShooterMcGavin
February 21, 2007, 04:20 PM
Ignorance and emotion
Exactly. That is called liberalism.

Ourselves.

WE allowed this to happen people. Blame anyone else you want, but the ultimate blame lays firmly upon our shoulders.

Compare the reaction of gun rights supporters with those who supported and worked for changes in civil rights law, slavery or women's suffrage. We have been largely passive - afraid to take a stand because we're more worried about possible additional restrictions.

This is a mess of our own making.
It is a very different fight. In those other cases, people were fighting to GAIN rights. We HAVE the right and it is being slowly taken away.

...if you drop a frog into boiling water, it will jump for its life. However, if you put a frog in a pot of cool water and slowly raise it up to a boil, the frog will sit still until it dies. (This is ONLY what I have heard to be true)

P.S. The original question was really asking "what thing". Education is a good one. Saying "all the people who vote against gun rights" is a little obvious. We can't simply will them to change, so... What thing causes them to be like that, or what thing have they imposed that we need to stop?

DirtyBrad
February 21, 2007, 05:06 PM
Ignorance and emotion aren't exactly the exclusive property of the left.

I think the problem is that the average person doesn't really care about gun rights one way or the other. They don't deal with guns, are content not to probe any farther into the issue than "guns are dangerous", and are fine with restricting their availability. And why wouldn't they be? It doesn't affect them, so they might as well err on the side of "caution". Just like cigarettes. No one gets up in arms or considers right and wrong when the government taxes the holy bejesus out of smokes. After all, cigarettes are bad. If their makers get screwed a bit, no big deal.

People seem to think that we should make laws based on what makes "reasonable sense", not on what's right or wrong or has anything to do with the Constitution. Some kids got shot last week? Let's put our heads together and see if we can make some rules to fix that. Violates our rights? That's not really important. We live in a very organized, safe society that doesn't need to stick to those quaint old ideas. Let's not get bogged down in the past when we could be making the world safer.

bogie
February 21, 2007, 05:15 PM
Campers, we need to quit knee-jerking and calling anything we don't agree with "liberal."

That really hacks off those of us who consider ourselves "liberals."

I think that the biggest problem we have is education. And the folks we NEED to educate shut down when they hear crap like that.

People desire safety. And when a gay atheist minority artist hears that you, with your guns, are fundamentally aligned against him, he wants your guns to go away. Because he's scared of him. Conversely, if you welcome him, without using all sorts of "conservative" rhetoric, to a "public safety and personal protection course," he's there.

WE are our own biggest enemy. If there are a hundred normal accepting folks out there, and one fellow with a klucker sticker on his mud truck, a confederate flag t-shirt, and an NRA hat on, guess which one is the loudest...

Sylvan-Forge
February 21, 2007, 05:38 PM
Aye bogie,

Liberal is a scam. Another robbed term that was twisted by far-leftist insurgents and wielded to attempt to bestow upon themselves the personage of the old and true meaning of Liberal.

Don' call 'em what they want to be called. Call 'em what they are.

TexasRifleman
February 21, 2007, 06:16 PM
Crappy thin belts and pants with too small belt loops seem to be the biggest infringement on my carrying.

I Love Texas :D

Brian Dale
February 21, 2007, 07:23 PM
For me, that would be Wisconsin's total prohibition of concealed carry by non-LEO citizens.

{Ev'rybody Sing:}
Reds to the Left of me,
Fudds to the Right,
Here I am, building an AR or two...

(I'm not spending time or money on the right carry piece, holsters or belts, so I spend them on rifles, shotguns and big revolvers. These things are good, but they stay at home)

Yeah, TexasSIGman, I'd love some things about Texas, too.

Alexfubar
February 21, 2007, 08:30 PM
Fear , and the relief that scared people feel when Mommy the Government says " There , there. I'll make it better. We'll take all the guns away from the scary men. You'll be just fine."

Daddy the Free Citizen needs to say : " I'm sorry you were scared. Be stronger, there is no other way to deal with scary men. Mommy can't help you. It's time to grow up."

pacodelahoya
February 21, 2007, 09:02 PM
Honors daddy, You are exactly right, rights not exercised are lost. We as civil rights activists need to start having marches, etc. Yea I know, they will come and arrest you for that in some places(D.C., Chicago, NYC etc),


Not if we can get 1, 2, or more thousands to March. Look at the illegals, look at the million man march, with those numbers, no one could stop us.

Afterwards, we can sit back and say"See 3,000 people with guns and not a single incident". (though I wouldn't put it past leftists to sabotage it)


Bogie, I agree with the liberal part of your synopsis, but not the other to some degree. While as distastefull as I find anyone who would wear a kkk t shirt, I still say they have a right to wear it as much as a Malcom X t shirt, La Raza t shirt or a gay pride t shirt.

I don't think it is fear that motivates a lot of the antis as much as intolerance, in spite of the fact all they teach is tolerance. It seems they only want to tolerate what they believe in.

ShooterMcGavin
February 21, 2007, 10:33 PM
Ignorance and emotion aren't exactly the exclusive property of the left.
You are right. I was kinda poking fun at the majority of the antis' beliefs.

I think that the biggest problem we have is education. And the folks we NEED to educate shut down when they hear crap like that.
I get frustrated because, it seems, those same people shut down when you try to talk and reason with them as well.

I have a friend at work, who is NOT anti-gun (he likes them). However, even he has said to me....
"carrying a gun gives ANYONE a tough-guy attitude" When I asked, he confirmed that he means "every single person" will get a bad attitude when carrying.
"carrying a gun is asking for violence"
"I don't trust myself to carry"
"I don't see myself ever needing a gun"

I don't agree with the first 2 statements. The last 2 are his own feelings, which are fine with me. Just passing this on.

BHPshooter
February 21, 2007, 11:24 PM
In a larger, broader sense, Statism is the biggest thing standing in our way. Yeah, it's brought down on us largely by the Democrats, but lately (in the last 60 of so years) the Repubs have been nearly as bad.

In a more local and practical sense, it is the large percentage of workplaces who don't allow concealed carry.

They're both pretty nefarious, but I'd have to say that the workplace restrictions are the more sinister and oppressive.

Wes

22-rimfire
February 22, 2007, 12:23 AM
The biggest threat for gun owners or supporters of 2A rights is BEING REASONABLE. Our schools teach that guns are evil, just like tobacco, drugs, warfare, etc. The passivity of the American voter will be the death of 2A rights as we know them now. The passive American is being lead by the liberal socialistic Democratic Congress without stenuous passive Republican objection.

Zrex
February 22, 2007, 01:41 AM
Government.

bogie
February 22, 2007, 02:45 AM
Shooter, a lot of what your bud's saying is basically what the shrinks call "transference." Which means that the "subject" is transferring his feelings to others... Not exactly bad, but not good either... Your friend should maybe be around friends a lot (be supportive, okay?), and your friend also needs to realize that helping someone else is not a bad thing, even if a bad person is injured.

There are FAR too many "anti" gun people who think that carrying seems to make someone either invincible (yeah, uh huh...), or feel invincible.

Yeah. Some folks will get an attitude on.

Those _same_ folks aren't going to pay a lot of attention to society's laws, because they do not feel that they are obligated to them.

So, _how_ will keeping guns away from dumbnuts attitude-boy encourage safety? Because, he +will+ find them... and he'll then turn around, and HARM a DISARMED population.

Welcome to the program.

Bogie

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