Savage Bolt Rifle Question


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Nightcrawler
February 21, 2007, 10:55 AM
Okay, I might be interested in getting a Savage rifle to learn precision shooting. I hear nothing but good things about them and they're a lot more affordable than other models.

They make a left handed tactical model in .308, even!

Quesiton, though. Even their standard models have the free-floating barrel and the accu-trigger. Is there any reason to get the "tactical" model specifically? Does it have a heavier barrel?

'Cause I think I'd like to get a .300 Win Mag, but don't make a lefty-model Tactical .300. They do, however, make a lefty .300 "hunting" rifle, and I'm wondering what the actual differences would be.

Also, any experience with Savage rifles in general? Wanna post some pictures?

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BigFatKen
February 21, 2007, 11:12 AM
I have the old style trigger in .243 with 3x9 combo scope. Get the accu-trigger. I'll sell you for mine for the $299 I have into it but the trigger needs tuning. Joke really, mine is a fine 200 yard deer shooter, but precision shooting, naw.

precision shooting and .300 mag are almost an oxymoron. Pick the .308 for precision shooting. The shorter powder stack makes for more even burn rates. The .300s only win when its very long ranges and the time in flight is shorter so wind affects the bullet less. precision shooting means a lot if different things to different people.

What does it mean to you?

ugaarguy
February 21, 2007, 11:41 AM
'Crawler, the 10FP has a heavy bbl that's free floated, the action is dual pillar bedded, and the forearm has the second stud already installed to mount a bipod.

A co-worker bought a 10FP with the HS precision stock last week. He added a Harris Bi-Pod and Nightforce glass. Using once fired brass from his M1a he looked at the reloading manual and loaded a middle of the road charge of Varget under a Sierra 168gr BTHP. The load hasn't been tuned to the rifle yet and he's already shooting 1 to 1.5 inch groups at 200 yds even with SW Idaho's gusty winds. I was impressed.

SSN Vet
February 21, 2007, 12:13 PM
.300 Win Mag

have you fired this cartridge?

Personally, I found...

that it's not so much the kick (limbsaver technology to the rescue).

rather, it's the "earth shattering kaboom!!

definately cause to double up foam plugs and muffs.

not a pleasant cartridge to shoot IMHO.

mustanger98
February 21, 2007, 04:52 PM
After being on the line with a guy who, with rifle fastened down in a Lead Sled, was firing a magnaported .300WinMag, I have no use for such a rifle. This was on a 100yd range too. I usually base my posted observations on that 100yd range, but I've shot .303British farther than that with accuracy to spare.

Regarding Savage rifles, I own a Model 11GL in .243Winchester and like it. This is the Hunter series and mine's "L" for left-handed. This rifle is also available in .308Winchester. My understanding is it is also dual pillar bedded. I know the barrel is totally free floated too. Just to shoot across the bench, I got a Harris bipod and clamps on the sling swivel stud... this bipod has the advantage of a place to attach the forward QD swivel. That said, unless I'm shooting across the hood of the pickup, I'm not a big fan of the bipod.

Nightcrawler
February 21, 2007, 07:06 PM
If I'm going to get a .308, is there any reason I shouldn't get a DPMS autoloader? It'll be just as accurate and has a 10/20 round magazine.

I don't know if .300 Win Mag is accurate or not, but since everybody from Savage to Accuracy International makes a sniper rifle in this cartridge, I was merely guessing that it'd do okay.

More power = more fun. People have told me I shouldn't use .45ACP +P ammo, 'cause it's too powerful. People have told me just get an AK, don't use a 16" .308. People have told me I shouldn't carry a .44 Mag 'cause it's too powerful.

So, unless .300 Win Mag really is inherently inaccurate, I don't see a reason to get the .308. You're not really giving anything up with the .300, and you're gaining superior ballistics.

Anyway, I'm happy to hear that Savage rifles can shoot. You never hear much about them; I think they're probably very under-rated, neh?

Judging from Savage's website, the only practical difference I can see between the regular models and the LE models is that the LE guns have heavier barrels.

R.W.Dale
February 21, 2007, 07:16 PM
So, unless .300 Win Mag really is inherently inaccurate, I don't see a reason to get the .308. You're not really giving anything up with the .300, and you're gaining superior ballistics.


Don't buy that BS line that one chambering is inherently inaccurate or another is inherently accurate. Cause it's exactly that a BS line. In rifles that aren't multi 1000 dollar bench rifles what the rifle is chambered in has almost NOTHING to do with the level of accuracy a particular rifle will exhibit.


if you want a 300 then by all means buy one as you'll give up NOTHING.

mustanger98
February 21, 2007, 07:17 PM
Anyway, I'm happy to hear that Savage rifles can shoot. You never hear much about them; I think they're probably very under-rated, neh?

Nightcrawler, You don't watch this rifle forum too much, do you? I see plenty of Savage threads. Some folks just don't like Savage because they cost less, kinda like some folks can't stand the thought of drinkin' likker that cost less that $40/750ml. Personally, I'm not an AR guy, so if I have a choice between DPMS's .308 and Savage's Model 11GL in .308, I'll take two or three of the Savage probably for the same money. I'd probably scope one and mount a Foolproof with target knobs on the other.

mustanger98
February 21, 2007, 07:18 PM
if you want a 300 then by all means buy one as you'll give up NOTHING.

Yeah, nothing but that big muzzle blast and its shockwave and probably a good bit of recoil.

Quintin Likely
February 21, 2007, 07:23 PM
The .300WM is a fine shootin' cartridge, accurate too. I don't really think it's a good cartridge for someone to learn how to shoot well though. Lots of muzzle blast, more recoil than a .308, ammo costs more (even if you reload), and lots of powder burned means it's harder on barrels. The recoil and muzzle blast are the main concerns IMO; if you don't work hard at it, it's easy to develop a flinch with all that boom going on which can undermine your groups downrange. It's a vicious cycle - you buy or load expensive ammo, go shoot, get the crap beat out of you, develop a flinch, as a result your groups downrange aren't all that hot, get discouraged, go home, stick the rifle in the safe and go shoot something else...lather, rinse, repeat.

There's not a lot you can't do or learn with a good .308 bolt gun, like that Savage. The tactical models have heavy barrels, which will heat up less than a light weight sporter barrel resulting in more consistent groupings down range - light weight barrels tend to get a little wild as they warm up. .308 match grade ammo still isn't cheap, but you won't get beat up like you will with a .300 mag. And I don't know if it matters in your area, but around here there's actually a range or two that won't allow magnums due to the safety fan of the range and for the sake of the targets (a 300M range here has electronic targets - magnums break the targets).

ETA - And Savage builds an excellent rifle, just as good if not better than Remington, Winchester or FN. I plan on buying a 10FP in .308 before the year is over with.

R.W.Dale
February 21, 2007, 07:31 PM
Yeah, nothing but that big muzzle blast and its shockwave and probably a good bit of recoil.

Some people can handle it just fine and some people can't:rolleyes:

SSN Vet
February 21, 2007, 07:31 PM
More power = more fun

I'm all for that! but would still suggest shooting a .300 Win mag before I bought one. Beating myself up, developing a terrible flinch and having a rifle sit in the closet because I don't enjoy shooting it is not my idea of fun.

Don't think you'll find any affordable mil. surp. ammo. either.

is there any reason I shouldn't get a DPMS autoloader?

That sounds like fun! but will cost you a lot more cake.

go to demigod.org and read the articles about getting into long range shooting. good info.

Nightcrawler
February 21, 2007, 07:37 PM
I don't know that the DPMS rifle would cost a LOT more. The MSRP for the basic 24" model is below a thousand dollars, last I checked. It would be heavier, though.

As for milsurp .308...it's prettymuch gone anyways. My next .308 ammo purchase (bulk) is going to be Georgia Arms Canned Heat. $370/1000 I think.

HOWEVER...I hadn't thought of that, in my tired, just-got-home-from-work state. Perhaps a .308 would be more economical to get started in, since it's more common. And I really don't want to pay DPMS $50+ a pop for their magazines.

Dr.Rob
February 21, 2007, 07:37 PM
Savage's secret has been out long before the 'accutrigger' a lot of Varmint shooters were buying up the 110FP 'police' rifles to get an inexpensive free floated recessed crown bull barreled rifle on the cheap.

http://www.savagearms.com/10flp.htm

Pretty good shooting rifle by all accounts.

http://www.savagearms.com/116flss.htm

Not a heavy contour barrel, but in 300 and stainless.

I have a pre-accutrigger 116 with the fluted, semi-bull barrel (that isn't listed left handed or that's the one I'd recommend) and it's a shooter.

Smokin Gator
February 21, 2007, 08:05 PM
Is the only difference between the Savage 10 FP and the 12FV that the 10 FP has the setup for a tripod? The 12 FV is listed as 1/4 pound heavier. thanks

mustanger98
February 21, 2007, 09:29 PM
I don't know that the DPMS rifle would cost a LOT more. The MSRP for the basic 24" model is below a thousand dollars, last I checked. It would be heavier, though.

If that's the case, the DPMS rifle will out-cost the Savage by 2 to 1.

ugaarguy
February 21, 2007, 11:07 PM
Is the only difference between the Savage 10 FP and the 12FV that the 10 FP has the setup for a tripod? The 12 FV is listed as 1/4 pound heavier. thanks
It looks like the difference is the 10FP has the extra stud for the bipod, and the 12FV has a 2" longer bbl - 26" vs. 24".

Beetle Bailey
February 21, 2007, 11:45 PM
If it was me, I'd get it in .308 Win before I get a .300 Win Mag. It's just more economical and thus, more practical. But if you must get a .300 Win Mag, I'd buying the long action hunting version and change the barrel to a .300 Win Mag heavy barrel and get a stock to match.

robctwo
February 22, 2007, 12:10 AM
I recently bought the 20" Savage 10FP in .308 to go with my .223. I've upgraded the stocks to the Dura Max from Midway. Still working up loads and looking for warmer weather. I owned a Ruger 300 Win Mag. Accurate enough, but didn't really do it for me. I switched to the Browning BAR Stalker in 300 WSM. I bought mine when you could get the BOSS standard. Very accurate gun. Not much fun for the other guys on the line. I have routinely warned others about the blast, and promised to shoot just a few rounds at a time so people could step back if they wanted to. Seems like the polite thing to do and has met with much appreciation at my club. I'm thinking of getting the CR unit which is the BOSS without muzzle break.

BigFatKen
February 22, 2007, 11:03 AM
So, unless .300 Win Mag really is inherently inaccurate,
Its as accurate as you can shoot it. If you buy a mag, note that .300 Win Mags often sell now for $50 less than the exact same rifle in .300 SSM. The SSM line all have shorter powder stacks and therefore more accurate to the guy who can squeeze 5" group at 1000 yards and 5.5" puts him is tenth place. To save money upfront get .300 mag. If a quick resale is possible, get a .300 SSM as they will keep their value better.

I would never buy any used magnum unless it was priced low enough to include a replacement barrel. Unless I knew it was used very little.

Handload any mag and pay > 40% more for now $22 pound powder. 7000 gr divided by 70 gr/(max ) load = 100 shots per pound vs 50gr or less for .308

Oh yeah, the mags burn up barrels.

Sniper X
February 22, 2007, 11:16 AM
Nightcrawler, NO AR based rifle is as accurate at range as a Savage 10FP series bolt gun, even if it has about 5 grand into it. If you truely want a precision rifle, want it to be affordable, and shoot as well as rifles costing 10 times he ammount there is no other than a Savage 10FP series heavy barrel rifle. Now I am left handed, had a Savage bolt gun in .243 for hunting but got the right handed model for precision because if you train as a lefty with a right bolt gun you get faster at follow up shots because you don;t take your trigger hand off the rifele to re cycly the bolt. Class over, I now have a 10FPLE2A and it is 1/4~1/2moa accurate with Federal GMM so I'd like to see anything under 3K do that.

Nightcrawler
February 22, 2007, 11:53 AM
You guys've prettymuch sold me on the Savage :cool:

What's the left-handed .308 LE model run, abouts?

alucard0822
February 22, 2007, 12:16 PM
I think the biggest difference you should concider between a 308 and a 300win mag is what will ultimately be more fun. The advantage of having surplus ammo in 308 is no advantage at all, about the only thing useable in a target rifle is the brass. You can get more life out of the 308, and shoot more each trip, I have a 10fp with the choate stock and love it, shoots my handloads in about 1"groups at 200yds consistently. My dad has a heavy barreled rem 700 in 300win mag and it can shoot nearly as well, but when he can only shoot about 40 rounds per session I often shoot 100. Either gun gets a mirage after about 15 rounds and we leave them to cool for 15 minutes, to get rid of the mirage, maintain accuracy and barell life. The 300 is cool, and definetely a mans gun, but just about anyone will start shaking or develop a flinch after a couple boxes at most. I can shoot my 308 all day. Between the two fit and finish is nearly the same, the savage has a better trigger and interchangeable barells. The rem has a better aftermarket. I think a muzzle brake would help out the 300 a lot, but to eaqual the savage it would probably cost twice as much to set up a rem the same way. http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=51603&d=1169251199

Sniper X
February 22, 2007, 12:21 PM
Depending on where you get it with a choate Plaster stock like the one pictured above you are looking at about $700.00.....well worht every penny!

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