22 for CCW


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scottw
February 21, 2007, 02:13 PM
I am doing research on people that use a 22 for CCW. I want to hear from people who carry A 22 and what brand and type and why. If any one has info for a web site I can go to to get more please let me know. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY WITH COMMENTS ABOUT A 22 NOT BEING SUITABLE FOR CCW. THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR THAT TYPE OF DISCUSSION.

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ghettofab
February 21, 2007, 03:18 PM
I'd go with something truly small, like a beretta tomcat with the tip-up bbl., or maybe one of those 22 mag small frame revolvers, made by taurus IIRC. other than that, perhaps a bit larger, bersa is producing its ccw thunder model in .22lr. Other than that, I'd just hack the stock off a marlin model 60.... j/k. But, seriously, whatever you choose, load it with velocitors or some other hyper-velocity round for penetration. Good luck.

Steve H
February 21, 2007, 03:21 PM
If I don't have any other choice I go with my Beretta Mod. 21. It fits well in the pocket of a pair of jeans.

tnieto2004
February 21, 2007, 03:22 PM
information by anyone who has shot someone in a conformation

Thats a bit personal dont ya think??

03Shadowbob
February 21, 2007, 03:28 PM
I doubt anyone responds to your request to shooting someone. That's not looked upon as proper here.
I am sure you will hear that the 22LR is a terrible choice for protection in 5...4...3...2...1...

Archer1945
February 21, 2007, 06:02 PM
I for one would not trust anyone who put up a website or posted to a forum their exploits about using a weapon, of anykind, which is designed to kill for settling a confrontation. As any GOOD martial arts practitioner will tell you the first objective should be to leave the area immediately, if not then try to diffuse the situation; a weapon should only be used as a last resort.

Having said that I know there are a plenty of incidents where that is the only answer. However you will find it very hard to find anyone who has, for any legitimate reason, had to knowingly kill someone want to talk about it. That includes military, LEO, or civilian.

gbran
February 21, 2007, 06:17 PM
A few years ago, TV cameras caught a man outside a courthouse trying to kill his lawyer. He was using a small caliber revolver and was taped shooting the man from a distance of only a few feet. I remember the victim dodging and weaving and taking the shots in the upper body. None of the shots, while most likely deadly without immediate treatment, appeared to phase the victim.

This is a pretty well aired tape and can probably be found. The press was onscene to cover some issues in the Robert Blake trial.

kokapelli
February 21, 2007, 06:39 PM
I would recommend the longest barrled gun that will work for you.

The 22 long rifle cartridge is just that, a rifle cartridge and it needs a barrel at least 5" long to hope for reliable expansion.

CCI gurantees that their Stinger will expand from a 5" or longer barrel.

shooter1
February 21, 2007, 06:50 PM
Have to ask, is a .22 all you have? If so, I can understand carrying one. Any gun is better than none.
sre1

scottw
February 21, 2007, 07:28 PM
Please read my post carefully. I want to hear from those that carry a 22 for their personal use. As far as the shooting goes There are cases that are perfectally legal such as those by Massad Ayoob. If some one has such information please contact me through private message. Do not not need or want names. People this for research and nothing more.

logical
February 21, 2007, 07:36 PM
Playing a little fast and loose with that term "research" i'd say. There have been one or two cases recently of people actually lying on internet forums.

kokapelli
February 21, 2007, 07:41 PM
This thread is starting to feel strange!
:uhoh:
Can you say why you want this information?

Walt Sherrill
February 21, 2007, 07:50 PM
I think I might prefer a pointed stick...

Twenty twos are notoriously unreliable. And unless you're really a fantastic shot, the chances of hitting something vital is pretty slim.

Its better than nothing, but not much better. And you might really irritate your assailant.

For almost the same price and size you can get a Kel-Tec P3AT, a number of different .32s, and for a bit more, a Kahr Micro in 9mm.

SunRunner
February 22, 2007, 06:53 AM
OK Scott, I’ll bite but I don’t know if it will help your “research” much.

For a number of years when I was very young, 12-18, I carried around an old Hopkins and Allen .22 double action revolver that belonged to my father. However, I really didn’t carry this handgun for the purpose of self-defense. I guess basically I just carried it because I could and never knew when a fat rabbit might present itself for the stew pot. This is a very old and small nickel-plated revolver that my father acquired when he was about 12. I acquired it from him to keep when I was about 50.

That pretty much covers the type of gun carried and why part of your question.

Although this would be a very concealable handgun I never really carried it that way. It was open carried in a leather holster. I just road my bicycle and later drove my 1947 jeep around with this little handgun strapped at my side. Before that, going back to about 1932, my father carried it in his adolescence in either in his pocket wrapped in and old sock, could be considered concealed, or after he got back from the war in his fishing tackle box, kind of concealed carry cause it went with him everywhere.

This revolver has literally fired 10s of thousands of .22 shorts and long and to the best of my knowledge was never used in a confrontation of any kind. So much for that part of your question. In fact it was fired so much its now worn to the point it would be unsafe to use it.

In the past if the need arose and it would have been the only weapon available could it have been used for self-defense? The answer is absolutely, but aside from possibly being a deterrent it probably would not have been very effective in stopping any serious assault.

Today I still fire a lot, 1000s, of .22 lr though either my S&W 616-6 or my Browning Buckmark. Both are high quality handguns but by nature the dud rate on .22 rim fire is high. That said, on any given day, when using the same brand ammo in both of these handguns, I find the revolver to present fewer misfires.

Neither of my .22s would be good concealable handguns. I personally wouldn’t carry any .22 rim fire for the specific purpose of CCW and self-defense. However if the only choice given was a .22 I’d have to look seriously at either an S&W 317 3” 8 round or one of the high quality .22 mag derringers. IMO if you experienced a dud in a double action revolver you could just pull the trigger again and pray to God the dud wasn’t just a slow primer.

Well, here documents close to 75 years of history of a .22 revolver that’s been carried for two generations and shot till it was worn out and nary one round in conflict.

Good Luck with your research…

scottw
February 22, 2007, 08:23 AM
Finally, Thanks you. i do not wish to carry a 22 just compiling info on those who do. There seems to be one thing that keeps coming up and that is the misfires. Unreliability is also at the top. Thanks again.

CajunBass
February 22, 2007, 08:30 AM
Ok. I'll bite. I have no idea what kind of "research" you're doing, but since I've told this a few dozen times on one of these boards or another, all the harm it will do is bore those who've read it a dozen or so times.

My wife carried a 22 for a couple of years. A Bersa Firestorm, loaded with CCI mini-mag solids. She was new to shooting, and didn't feel she shot well enough with heavier guns and she was intimidated by the recoil. She had confidence in (1) knowing the Bersa was "Ivory Snow" reliable with the Mini-Mags. (I don't remember ever seeing it malfunction with them. It may have, so I can't say 100%.) (2) and in her ability to shoot it. It wasn't ideal, but it was better than trying to push her into carrying a gun she wasn't confident in, and didn't have any confidence in her ability with. I suspect she whould have simply left it at home.

No, she never shot anybody with it. She never got shot by anyone. She never had to "pull it." But she did learn to shoot with it, and gained enough confidence in herself, and in her ability to move up to Glock 19 this year. That little 22 got her comfortable with shooting, and the idea of carrying a gun. It taught her that guns don't just "go off", you have to do something to make them go off. It taught her to safely handle and carry a handgun. It taught her to disassemble and reassemble a pistol, and how to clean one.

Everyone says a 22 is a perfect training tool. Sometimes that training extends to all aspects of owing and carrying a firearm. And in a pinch, it's a lot better than crying and begging, "Please don't hurt me."

For what it's worth, I do know a guy who got shot with a 22, when he got mugged one night. He said it "Hurt like a (insert colorful metaphor here.)"

keyser223
February 22, 2007, 08:30 AM
If you are still compiling data, I carry a Beretta model 21 when I feel the need to go very compact. I prefer to use heavier rounds such as the Aquila SSS 60gr .22's or very fast rounds like the CCI Velocitors to make up for the speed lost by the short barrel.

scottw
February 22, 2007, 09:13 AM
Thanks for the excellent input by keyser223 and cajun brass. In research the Bersa keeps coming up as one of the most reliable. The 21A seems to be carried by quite a few. I have talked to security guards that really like the 21A. One thing that all have in common is that they use Stingers or other high performance ammo.

lil ski
February 22, 2007, 09:44 AM
Don't laugh but for many years I carried a Jennings J22. It is very small and fits into my back pocket. It fired CCI mini mags with out a hitch. I never had to pull or fire it at any thing other than paper and at 10 to 15 feet it would hold a baseball size group. I figure if your farther than 15 feet you should run away instead of fight anyway. I had to retire it after all these years it just plain wore out I must have put 10000 rounds through it and for $49 brand new what do you expect. Now I went to the other end I carry a 45 so go figure.

1BLINDREF
February 22, 2007, 09:57 AM
If you really want to carry a 22, I'd go with a S&W 317. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=11001

At 10.5 ozs and 8 shots with the capability of a second strike if you have a misfire, I think it's a great choice. I'd shoot CCI Stingers if I HAD to CCW it. :uhoh: I have one and like it very much, but not for CCW :eek:

scottw
February 22, 2007, 10:30 AM
Thanks for the info on the 317. That one has never come up before. Amazing what you can learn from other input. I will research that one to find out if someone uses one as a CCW. Only problem I see is it is expensive for a 22. Thanks again.

Marshall
February 22, 2007, 10:55 AM
Now please tell us why you wanted the info. What kind of research and for what?

scottw
February 22, 2007, 12:13 PM
I think the 22 has got a bad rap for a long time. According to the last documents I have been able to get my hands on shows that there are more people shot with the 22 than all other calibers combined. Fact or fiction I do not know, so I thought I would do some private research to see how many on this forum use a 22 as a CCW weapon. I do research and study every kind of CCW or combat shooting book I can get my hands on because I teach shooting and when I give out information I want it to be as accurate as possible. If I tell you that a rooster can pull a choo choo train you can go hook him up. I do not believe in bad or tainted information and accuracy is to be had regardless of personal belief. Some of the information that I am able to compile on the 22 shows that most problems are a result of bad 22's or ammo. I am beginning to feel that with a high quality 22 with high quality ammo might and I say might be able to be used for CCW purposes. You also need to understand is that a lot of people can only shoot a 22 or other light caliber pistol because of all kinds of physical problems. I have one student with a bad elbow and he cannot handle recoil and for all target work I put into a Walther P22. He is elated as now he can handle recoil and not hit the target and does not suffer with fatigue. I can go on all day about this but that is not needed. AS for my personal reason is I have to shoot a light load in a small caliber because of a heart attack and bad shoulder. Recoil after a short time starts starts to cause me problems and because of the shoulder problems I cannot handle recoil well when it comes to getting back on target because of the pain. I must say with a 22 I put 10 rounds in the head at 12 feet in under 6 seconds. Good bad or otherwise if push came to shove I would feel confident in a confrontation with my 22. I might add that I carry a 380. I am seeking legitimate information and it is too bad some people use this thread for non subject opinions and unwanted input.

kokapelli
February 22, 2007, 12:25 PM
I am seeking legitimate information and it is too bad some people use this thread for non subject opinions and unwanted input.

I by nature am a very suspicious person and I think you might have gotten a better response (at least from me you would have) if you had not been so secretive initially.:scrutiny:

scottw
February 22, 2007, 01:22 PM
Well now you have information and I still do not see any input from you. One has to only look at the post from cajunbrass, keyser223, and lilski. That is good information to pass on. The one from cajunbrass will be passed on in a conversation some time in the future. Normally I do not use this forum for this information as I much prefer to do an interview on a one on one basis. I have gotten some stories that will not believe.

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