We're all ARFers now.


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Eleven Mike
February 21, 2007, 06:07 PM
Do the Zumbo comments and all the fall-out thereof mean that I can't "hate" on AR's anymore? I mean, I've never, ever done anything with you AR people but criticize your poor taste. Now, I find myself standing together with you at the zum-bo-cue, roasting that poor fool, and defending your right to own wimpy rifles.

Oh well. Pass the barbeque sauce, you terrorists. :p ;)

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carpediem
February 21, 2007, 06:16 PM
Darn you scared me - thought for a minute I had to post a gratuitously posed picture of my self at dinner :neener:

HR1022 - The Poor Taste Bill of 2007 :p

Seriously, I'm revving up the effort to buy at least one stripped lower....

Wimpy? Just cuz' your 'roid rifle can shoot through both sides of a car....little guys like me like wimp.. *er* intermediate rifles

bofe954
February 21, 2007, 06:25 PM
Eleven Mike, that is pretty funny and by far the funniest post regarding Zumbo.

I feel a little sorry for the guy myself...but just a little.

ryoushi
February 21, 2007, 06:34 PM
I think ARfers are at the tip of the spear in the gun control wars. In CA we have gone to ridiculous lengths to own AR type rifles. Most of us put up our money just to be a royal pain in the ass to the Attorney General and caused his flunkys all sorts of grief by posting their own incompetant remarks on the web for all to see. It was the energy and new blood generated by that fight that helped shoot down the microstamping and other anti gun legislation we faced last year. It was very encouraging to see the way shooters across the spectrum reacted to this mess.

I hate to say it, but ten years ago I felt much the same way Zumbo does/did? I never really wanted an AR to tell you the truth, but building mine was fun and ammo is pretty cheap. They're like Barbie Dolls for gun freaks you can dress em up any way you want. I want to keep mine and keep the chance to build and shoot a few more.

Eleven Mike
February 21, 2007, 06:47 PM
Thanks a lot, bofe. :)


They're like Barbie Dolls for gun freaks you can dress em up any way you want.

Alright, I found a new sig line! Let the hatred continue! :)

shaggycat
February 21, 2007, 07:42 PM
You don't have to like the rifle to defend someones right to own it.

Eleven Mike
February 21, 2007, 07:47 PM
You don't have to like the rifle to defend someones right to own it.Yeah, I think that was the whole point of the "hang together" anti-Zumbo uproar. But is it safe to insult ARs again, or will I be Zumboed? Cause I really hate those stupid guns. :neener:

DogBonz
February 21, 2007, 08:04 PM
I can't "hate" on AR's anymore

You can still hate on AR's... And us AR'icans can still hate on AK's....

Just now we realize the you can be wrong and we can be wrong, as long as we are all wrong together.:p

Gator
February 21, 2007, 08:10 PM
Hi everybody, my name is Gator and I HATE ARs (AKs too!).

But I'm darn sure not going to support anyone who wants to take them away from you.... :)

Just wait until they try and take away Zumbo's "sniper rifles" and see what tune he sings :neener:

RockyMtnTactical
February 21, 2007, 08:11 PM
Why so much hate for the AR?

How much experience do you even have with the AR?

Kaylee
February 21, 2007, 08:17 PM
11M ... :D

Ain't family grand? :p

DogBonz
February 21, 2007, 08:24 PM
Ain't family grand?


You mean, isn't family Garand?

Sorry, I couldn't resist

redneckrepairs
February 21, 2007, 08:31 PM
Well the rra i own will never replace the pre 64 mod 70 i own in my heart , but all guns are good guns . Criminals misuse " wonderbars " far more than they do firearms .

AndyC
February 21, 2007, 08:35 PM
You mean, isn't family Garand?
Arf, arf... arf.com :D

FXR
February 21, 2007, 08:36 PM
I think it's still fine to rag on the AR's, if nothing else because it yanks the chain of Arfers everywhere. I will solemnly and proudly defend anyone's poor taste in firearms -- just don't make me buy one :neener: .

The key, of course, is that we're all agreed that they're not "terrorist weapons" and it's okay for anyone who wants one to buy one.

11M: "Zum-bo-cue" is a winner. Heh heh.

soul_rapier
February 21, 2007, 09:03 PM
The way i look at it you have the right to own ANY gun you want and if people dont hang together we will loose them all someday even your bolt action 22 maybe even your old daisy BB .That whats kills me people say stuff like why own a .50 cal bmg you dont need that . but they go out and buy sports car and have 5 kids .

Mr White
February 21, 2007, 09:06 PM
Look, we rifle guys may have our differences, but we gotta stand together and get those evil shotguns banned. That'd teach those snobby trap shooters! :D

nico
February 21, 2007, 09:26 PM
All the AR haters just need to remember: if they're outlawed, you won't have anything to argue about anymore:neener:

I guess I have a big heart, because there's plenty of room in there for my AR, SKS, bolt rifle, pistol, shotgun, and muzzle loader, and I'm pretty sure there's room for at least a few more guns:D

blackhawk2000
February 21, 2007, 09:32 PM
You don't have to like anything, I like. But when you start trying to keep me from doing my thing because you don't like it...well now we got problems.

10-Ring
February 21, 2007, 09:47 PM
Years ago, I wasn't the AR fan. I much preferred the evil rifles from HK. Then w/ the advent of the AWB, I was rifleless & went YEARS wanting to replace the guns I had. Last year, when the state allowed us lowly citizens to purchase & build OOL, I ended up building 2 AR's, one in 223 & the other in 9mm and buy, have I become a HUGE fan! :cool:

Eleven Mike
February 21, 2007, 11:08 PM
Why so much hate for the AR?

How much experience do you even have with the AR?

Second question: I learned to shoot on an M16A2 and then spent the next few years in the infantry, 11M. So far, seven years AR-free.

First Question: It's all personal preference, man. I'm just not into shooting poodles, that's all. ;)

I don't want to take your AR's away - how would I get the awful smell of cheesy mediocrity off my hands? :neener:

Gator
February 21, 2007, 11:18 PM
What Eleven Mike said.....only in my case it would be 0331, with a secondary as a rifle coach.

You all are welcome to your ARs; as the libs like to say "Celebrate Diversity!"

mustanger98
February 21, 2007, 11:22 PM
Why so much hate for the AR?

How much experience do you even have with the AR?

Q2: I've given several AR's a look-over at the gun counter and the range. I see the accuracy others get, but I've heard plenty bad about direct gas impingement. Some of my friends are Vietnam Vets who were stuck with the M-16. I knows it's not exactly the same, but they're too alike for my taste.

Q1: What I just said about direct gas impingement... blows fouling back into the receiver... but also the ergonomics don't feel right. That and they're so ugly. AR's ain't M1 Garands and M-14's; that's for sure.

All that said, like somebody said about AR-15ers having the right to bad taste and we'll defend their right to it. Thing is, we all have to defend each other's right or we'll lose our own. I think that point just came across through this whole sad mess.

english kanigit
February 22, 2007, 01:47 AM
Well, I never thought I would get an AR.

Who in their right mind would want an AR when a Mosin was availible? :neener: I bought mine from a coworker at the shooting range and I haven't regreted it yet.

And here I had thought that the only direct-gas impingment gun I wanted to own was a Hakim!



Now that I see the darkness on the horizon I am buying left and right. That includes at least one more AR pattern rifle in the near future.

Ek :o

3rdpig
February 22, 2007, 02:23 AM
What got Zumbo's tit in the wringer wasn't hating AR's. He could hate them all day long as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't have given a rats backside.

But when a fellow gun owner starts calling a rifle he hates a "terrorist" rifle (and good God man, it's used by the armed forces of his own country, one wonders if he even realizes that!) and start talking about banning and divorcing, it's gone way beyond his dislike of any one weapons platform.

He's shown us that he's a snake in our tent and a poisonous one too boot. And we did what all good men do when they find a venomous snake in their tent.

My safe is big enough for my AR to live right next to my Winchester 94 which can be right next to my 03 Springfield. And my campfire is big enough for owners of any gun to sit by.

cracked butt
February 22, 2007, 03:30 AM
I might be an oddball, but I like the way ARs look. Maybe odder yet, I think Weatherbys are ugly, overpriced, and obnoxious, but to each their own I guess.

Prince Yamato
February 22, 2007, 03:51 AM
I'm personally an AK man, but I think it was refreshing to see the firearms community swoop down on that Zumbo fellow. I especially was appreciative of how Remington told him to take a hike. I think the proliferation of internet blogs and message boards has helped tremendously. If this was the early ninties, it would've taken years for the Zumbo comments to get around and 90% of people would probably think it was a rumor. Now, we just post the proof. Just like we hear about AWB II and we all spring to action.

Don't Tread On Me
February 22, 2007, 05:28 AM
This Zumbo guy is proof positive that our cause is still infested by traitorous filth.


With friends like these, one doesn't need enemies.



His mentality causes me to have much animosity toward the whole 2nd Amendment = hunting crowd. I'm sure I'm not the only one. And yes, there are many of these people. The problem is, we shouldn't hate on them despite them being morally the equivalent of gun-grabbers. I admit it's not easy to do that. They inspire rage as they are assaulting what we are passionate about, and they're suppose to be an ally!!! The reason we shouldn't hate on them is because they own guns. Yes, they are bigoted, ignorant and short-sighted and selfish self-interested in their own hobby. However, they still own a gun. That is a huge step above and beyond your typical leftwing progressive liberal who foams at the mouth like a rabid modern day flower child and wants a completely gun free utopia. Those people are without salvation. They are basically bradyites. The ignorant hunters can be "converted" to understanding our fight. At least a good amount of them.


So, this is one area we as a community must have great patience. Unfortunately, he got attacked by everyone in the gun community (and rightly so), but being attacked probably just makes him a closet blackrifle hater. I doubt it has changed his mind. His article was almost a confessional piece! He took a leap of faith in sharing what he really thinks, and he's been attacked for it.


That's not the way to make the argument. It would be great if our best writers would begin to write replies and responses to his article in various magazines and websites pointing out the flaw in his thinking and making points toward our cause. That is how you win an ally. Not by attacking them.


Am I off base here?

cracked butt
February 22, 2007, 05:58 AM
His mentality causes me to have much animosity toward the whole 2nd Amendment = hunting crowd. I'm sure I'm not the only one. And yes, there are many of these people. The problem is, we shouldn't hate on them despite them being morally the equivalent of gun-grabbers. I admit it's not easy to do that. They inspire rage as they are assaulting what we are passionate about, and they're suppose to be an ally!!!

DTOM- as an avid hunter myself, I'm pretty disgusted by not only Zumbo, but a lot of other Fudds out there. I remember the last 2 presidential elections where hunters showed up every where- on blogs, political boards, and magazine editorials spouting off how they would glady give up the 'assault weapons' in order that public hunting ground is preserved and expanded.

The thing that really rubs me wrong about that sentiment is not just bout the guns, but so-called 'hunters' who want free handouts in the form of publicly funded land. The whole idea of hunting is from our ancient ancestors who did it to acquire food and be self sufficient (if only because they had no choice), the people who historically relied on handouts starved.

JWarren
February 22, 2007, 07:46 AM
You can still hate on AR's... And us AR'icans can still hate on AK's....

Now dont' be hatin' on the AK. :D We ARE the original EBR. :neener:


Hehe.... 90% of the specific mention on a black rifle on threads has cited the AR specifically. I just wanted to point out that some of us are making it a life's work to prove that an AK platform can be a good hunting rifle. Believe it or not, some manufacturers have actually pulled off making accurate ones.


All the best!

John

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