(IL) ISRA takes on Cook AWB


PDA






Blaster
February 21, 2007, 09:48 PM
Link to Article (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/02-21-2007/0004532014&EDATE=WED+Feb+21+2007,+03:08+PM)

The ISRA announced today that it is seeking injunctive relief against a
gun ban recently enacted by the Cook County Board. In filing its complaint
with the Cook County Circuit Court, the ISRA is asserting that compliance
with the vaguely-worded ordinance would be impossible for most citizens of
Cook County and, further, the method by which the ban was passed violated
the Illinois Open Meetings Act.
On November 14, 2006, the Cook County Board passed an amendment to the
existing Cook County Deadly Weapons Dealers Control Ordinance which seeks
to ban the sale, possession and transfer of a variety of popular hunting
and sporting firearms. The amendment, authored by Commissioner Larry
Suffredin, had been tabled in July of 2005 by the Board.
"In light of the circumstances under which this amendment was passed,
the ISRA felt it was important that action be taken to halt its
implementation," said ISRA Executive Director, Richard Pearson. "We are
disappointed that the Cook County Board chose to pass this ordinance
without benefit of public debate -- especially when its provisions impact
such a large number of Cook County residents. In addition to the
questionable procedures under which it was passed, the ordinance is so
poorly worded that few, if any, firearm owners in the county would be
certain that they were in compliance with its requirements."
"We are confident that the Cook County Circuit Court will recognize the
shortcomings of this ordinance and grant the firearm owners of Cook County
an injunction against its implementation," continued Pearson. "The ISRA and
the firearm owners of Cook County are second to none in their desire to
eradicate violent crime. However, we do not believe that law abiding
firearm owners should take it on the chin in the process. The ISRA and its
members stand ready to provide advice and guidance to the Cook County Board
in the development of meaningful legislation that will fight violent crime
while preserving the rights of law-abiding citizens who choose to own
firearms."
The ISRA is the state's leading advocate of safe, lawful, and
responsible firearms ownership. Since 1903, the ISRA has represented the
interests of over 1.5 million law-abiding Illinois firearm owners.

If you enjoyed reading about "(IL) ISRA takes on Cook AWB" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Jeff White
February 21, 2007, 09:55 PM
Good, I'll write them another check after work. It looks like the ISRA is getting serious about the fight this year.

Jeff

Autolycus
February 21, 2007, 10:31 PM
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Thats what I am afraid ISRA is going to be doing.

Jeff White
February 22, 2007, 01:53 AM
Why are you afraid the ISRA is going to fight. Perhaps you'd like the biggest stae orgainization in Illinois to sit this one out?

WIthout Todd Vandermyde working in the capitol we'd already have worse laws then California.

Who is your first choice to lead the fight?

Jeff

Blaster
February 22, 2007, 07:12 AM
This effort is going to take $$$$. Click here to donate (https://secure.cnchost.com/isra.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=40)

NukemJim
February 22, 2007, 08:56 AM
Jeff White Why are you afraid the ISRA is going to fight. Perhaps you'd like the biggest stae orgainization in Illinois to sit this one out?


You have to pick your battles and not waste resources on a hopless cause. Sorry Jeff but the Cook County AWB is a done deal.

The best we can hope for is to stop new legislation at the state level. I plan on making the trip to Springfield on the 14th but I am extremely concerned.

NukemJim

scout26
February 22, 2007, 09:30 AM
You have to pick your battles and not waste resources on a hopless cause. Sorry Jeff but the Cook County AWB is a done deal.

The best we can hope for is to stop new legislation at the state level. I plan on making the trip to Springfield on the 14th but I am extremely concerned.

Why do I hear in my head:

"We shall fight them on the beaches, and in the fields.......We shall never surrender."

We cannot abandon the fight nor surrender anywhere. Gun CONTROL is like cancer. If you don't stop it early it will only get worse and spread.

Deanimator
February 22, 2007, 11:26 AM
"We shall fight them on the beaches, and in the fields.......We shall never surrender."

Unfortunately, ANY pro-gun activity in Cook County resembles nothing so much as Dieppe.

You can learn from a defeat, but it's still a defeat.

Steve McQueen
February 22, 2007, 12:05 PM
The Illinois State Rifle Hierarchy is loaded with one too many Jim Zumbo Clones.

This new Cook County Law must have something to do with their Precious Deer Rifles and that's why they are now so upset.

If the new law was concerned only with those evil looking assaut rifles and not their ever-loving high powered bolt actions the ISRA would continue to sip their Brewskis and clean their Deer Rifles and ignore the 2nd Amendment as they've been doing for the last 40 years.

http://eightpawsclipart.3lmt.com/images/looneyt/elmer/elmers1.jpg

They are an organization of Fudds, run by Fudds, for Fudds and not particularily concerned about the evil black assault rifles.

But damn, mess with their Deer Rifles and the Fudds start a popping!

http://badtux.net/uploaded_images/Elmer_Fudd-714103.jpg

Jeff White
February 22, 2007, 12:45 PM
Steve Mcqueen,
High powered rifles aren't legal for deer hunting in Illinois. You don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

I think the suit is to send a message to Chicago delegation that we will fight. I've heard them bandy abuot the idea that they've crafted a bill that will be acceptable to everyone. They just want to pass some kind of a ban, they don't care if it is even effective. I look for them to drop the registration provision in order to make it more palatable.

The suit is a shot across the bow of the Chicago politicians. It's also a warning shot for those legislators sitting on the fence. The suit also has a pretty good chance of succeeding on the open meetings act count. Last year the governor signed a bill bringing electronic communications to include cell phone text messages under the open meetings act.

Jeff

sctman800
February 22, 2007, 01:06 PM
I think the ISRA has been getting more and more involved in all forms of gun ownership especiallyn over the last couple years. I have been a member of Champaign County Rifle Assn. for a few years and last year joined the ISRA. Yes, there are some things the ISRA has done in the past I was not happy with, but we all have to learn. Now when I show up at IGOLD March 14, I will be a member and that I believe is importaint.
We must all rember every day, ALL FIREARMS ARE UNDER ATTACK!!! Jim.

Outlaw Man
February 22, 2007, 04:01 PM
I may have to send them some money. There's a lot of decent people up there, and their going to wind up having to defend themselves with a coat hanger and some duct tape before these bans stop. Best of luck to all of you in Cook Co. and the rest of IL. You're going to need it.

Thin Black Line
February 22, 2007, 04:31 PM
The Illinois State Rifle Hierarchy is loaded with one too many Jim Zumbo Clones.

and

Steve Mcqueen,
High powered rifles aren't legal for deer hunting in Illinois. You don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

I have some experience doing grassroots org'ing in IL back in the 90s so I
guess things have done a near 180 since then....good to know that all the
over/under shotgun types who could have completely cared less about the
1994 AWB and who also didn't make much noise every time a state CCW bill
was gasping for breath in the IL legislature must no longer have any influence
in the IL ISRA. Maybe they got burned too many times by enough candidates
for political office in the 90s to re-evaluate things in the 2000s.

Jeff White
February 22, 2007, 05:07 PM
The ISRA isn't the same organization it was. Things have changed since the 90s....And changed for the good. This year lobby day is a joint project with the other organizations.

The problem with so mny people on our side is that they are absolutists. Anything less then what's politically possible right now is considered a sell out. The reality is that things move incrementally in the political world and everything is a compromise these days. The antis no this. They got to where they are by fighting in small increments. That's not good enough for many of us though. We want it all or nothing. They took our rights away one small bite at a time, and many of us want them all back in one fell swoop. You know what, it ain't gonna happen that way.

The antis even craft their bills with throw away provisions so they can negotiate. But whenever one of our legistlators crafts a bill, there are 10k people on our side who will call him/her a sell out if it doesn't eliminate all restrictions immediately. The absolutist gun rights organiztions will never be successful because their all or nothing agenda is politically impossible.

If we don't educate ourselves about how the political process actually works and start trying to accomplish what's possible at the moment and take our rights back one step at a time just the way they were taken, we'll fight among ourselves until we have lost them all.

Jeff

GoRon
February 22, 2007, 05:13 PM
Richard Pearson had a mini Zumbo moment a couple years ago.

He was quoted making a statement that could be construed as anti EBR or ccw, I forget which.

He and they at ISRA learned that much of the new blood in ISRA is made up of shooters not hunters. I was assured in an e mail they are committed to CCW and protection of our right to own any kind of gun regardless of its look.

I think they have stepped it up a notch the last few years and I will continue to support them.

Jeff White
February 22, 2007, 05:20 PM
Richard Pearson told me personally that they have a plan to turn the FOID into a CCW, which would effectively be Vermont style carry. I got this answer when I asked about pushing to have the FOID eliminated.

The key is in my earlier post, doing things as they become politiaclly possible.

Jeff

Thin Black Line
February 22, 2007, 06:10 PM
Richard Pearson told me personally that they have a plan to turn the FOID into a CCW, which would effectively be Vermont style carry. I got this answer when I asked about pushing to have the FOID eliminated.

Jeff, I heard this over 10 years ago. I now live in a state with CCW. I didn't
move because of IL's gun laws, but for career reasons like most people do.
But like every other state, IL is a piece of the larger puzzle.

If we don't educate ourselves about how the political process actually works and start trying to accomplish what's possible at the moment and take our rights back one step at a time just the way they were taken, we'll fight among ourselves until we have lost them all.


Well understood as I have been making the "divide and conquer" analogy here
for quite some time. However, don't misunderstand digging in on our side
as mindless absolutism when our side has had a strong streak of serf mentality
that needs to be weeded out. This was the mentality in 1994 when people
were "thankful that they let us keep the EBRs we already had and we can
still buy our minis, garands, etc." That is also defeatist thinking.

They took our rights away one small bite at a time, and many of us want them all back in one fell swoop. You know what, it ain't gonna happen that way.


I agree given where this country is at right now. And sadly it's also not PC
in our conservative circles to even say such as "Well, I'm glad my ancesters
in 1776 didn't feel that way." Even our people immediately have a nervous
knee-jerk to conditioned media influenced mental images of Joe's ragtag
militia just as quickly as the most indoctrinated anti-gun java jaw-flapping
liberal.

It's actually possible to hold your ground and get people out of office without
bloodshed. Although Europe had it's bloody changes in the 90s, it also had
its more sedate changes in government. However, in our country this change
will not happen based on the gun issue alone. It wasn't in 1776, it won't be
for us either or in a more distant future. It will be a convergence of factors
that move people toward action --most of which will be economic. Violence
is not necessary for this change either.

General Pike summed up political nature well in this respect:

It is lamentable to see a country split into factions, each following this or that great or brazen-fronted leader with a blind, unreasoning, unquestioning hero-worship; it is contemptible to see it divided into parties, whose sole end is the spoils of victory, and their chiefs the low, the base, the venal and the small. Such a country is in the last stages of decay, and near its end, no matter how prosperous it may seem to be. It wrangles over the volcano and the earthquake. But it is certain that no government can be conducted by the men of the people, and for the people, without a rigid adherence to those principles which our reason commends as fixed and sound. These must be the tests of parties, men, and measures. Once determined, they must be inexorable in their application, and all must either come up to the standard or declare against it. Men may betray; principles never can. Oppression is one invariable consequence of misplaced confidence in treacherous man, it is never the result of the working or application of a sound, just, well-tried principle. Compromises which bring fundamental principles into doubt, in order to unite in one party men of antagonistic creeds, are frauds, and end in ruin, the just and natural consequence of fraud. Whenever you have settled upon your theory and creed, sanction no departure from it in practice, on any ground of expediency. It is the Master's word. Yield it up neither to flattery nor force ! Let no defeat or persecution rob you of it! Believe that he who once blundered in statesmanship will blunder again; that such blunders are as fatal as crimes; and that political near-sightedness does not improve by age. There are always more impostors than seers among public men, more false prophets than true ones, more prophets of Baal than of Jehovah; and Jerusalem is always in danger from the Assyrians.

I couldn't have said it better.

44Brent
February 22, 2007, 06:50 PM
Here's an example of how Richard "Zumbo" Pearson of the Illinois State Rifle Association burned gun rights groups across the country. http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4395&st=0&

It's good that he's finally doing something right for once. However, Steve is essentially correct, as Richard "Zumbo" Pearson is a FUDD.

Nanook
February 22, 2007, 08:45 PM
I disagree that the ISRA is a hunter's organization. I belong to the range outside Kankakee and they have high-power rifle matches there constantly. 300 yard range, 100 yard range, pistol ranges along with a 100 meter range for benchrest people.

The rifle of choice at the high-power matches? The AR15, like everywhere else. Also, Garand matches, rifle leagues, and pistol matches. Hardly a hunter's organization anymore.

They do have a once a year sight-in day the public is welcome to attend, this is an attempt to draw more members.

You seldom see hunter's sighting in hunting rifles otherwise, since as mentioned above, Illinois is not a center-fire rifle hunting state.

GoRon
February 22, 2007, 08:56 PM
The gunnies in Illinois like to hold the ISRA (who they don't support financially usually) responsible for the actions of the people we vote into office!!

Join and participate to help our agenda in Springfield.

It is more productive then whining on the internet.

NukemJim
February 22, 2007, 11:31 PM
Jeff you may have a valid point about the open meetings act, I do not know, am not a lawyer and do not pretend to understand how likely it is to be applied and I do not know what kind of action might result. If they can get it negated on such grounds, with minimal expenditure/effort, fine do it

But taking Daley on in his own back yard when he is about take over the whole neighborhood does not seem to be a good idea to me. The antis have all the free legal talent, as much political clout as they want, MSM for "Conferences" lots of people available for demonstrations/counterdemonstrations on demand, many people who will talk about their poor child who was about to turn their life around gunned down on video, there will actually be some innocent children killed they will show on video etc.... :barf:

ISRA does not have unlimited resources* I do not believe it can effectivley fight both a state level ban and Cook County ban at the same time. What good does it do to get rid of the ban in Cook County if they start a whole new statewide ban?

Which would the antis prefer ?

A) A Cook County Ban
or
B) A Illinois Ban which covers all the counties in Illinois

Sorry Jeff but I respectfully but firmly disagree with you on this matter, unless they can attack it through the Open Meeting Act you mention. I would love it if they did win but I believe fighting the statwide ban for 100+ counties is more important than fight for 1.

NukemJim




*( yes I donate even though I'm not a member{ask the guy selling raffle tickets at the last DuPage Gunshow we had a chat about me not being a member}, I plan to be there March 14 and I went to Springfield last lobby day).

Autolycus
February 22, 2007, 11:33 PM
Jeff White: I am glad they are fighting. I was trying to say (rather poorly apparently) that I am afraid they are just beating their heads into a wall. I support them but I am just afraid of the idiocy of Cook county and its politicos.

Hk91 Fan
February 23, 2007, 12:06 AM
Some of you guys are FOS. Like you, "Steve McQueen"...

You are obviously someone who whines and complains and spreads BS on the internet - to what end, I can't say. If you think that ISRA is what it was 10-15 years ago, you are as ignorant and confused as that pathetic response you posted. ISRA is well represented with shooters from the black rifle crowd - not just "fudds" or whatever other derogatory name you use to describe our fellow sportsman.

You would know that if you were more than casually involved in the fight against the unlawful taking of our God-given rights. You would know that some of us here are more than casually aquainted with those in the ISRA hierarchy you demean so freely. I figure it's easier to insult these folks than it is to give them a dollar and a little bit of your time, right?

When some of you insult these folks, it may be that you are insulting folks here, their friends or people they know. I suggest you STFU. Because if you were really around these folks, you would know better. And for the record, I have never hunted anything other than a Chipmunk.

I'll stop there before I get banned.

Hk91 Fan
February 23, 2007, 12:15 AM
44Brent,

I read that link and I understand how absolutely offensive and unfortunate that incident was. I cringe when I remember that whole mess.

However, since you are giving us all a refresher on one of the 2 biggest mistakes ISRA has made in the last bunch of years, I wonder if there's not something you are or forgetting, or purposely skating over, in terms of how that whole "loophole" thing went down?

I'll leave it to anyone remotely interested to research the other half of that story.

NukemJim
February 23, 2007, 12:33 AM
I'll leave it to anyone remotely interested to research the other half of that story

Hk91 Fan, other members and I might be interested in the half you refer to. If you have some information that would change our perception or point of virw on that unplesantness I would ask that you please elucidate.

If you do not present your point of view no one else will.

Sorry just my humble onpinoin.

NukemJim

sctman800
February 23, 2007, 01:39 AM
I was very sad when John Birch shut down www.concealcarry.org it was usually the first place I would visit. One thing he allways said was that our fight is not in Springfield but in Chicago. I think he was probably correct and the state will never change unless things change in Chicago. Jim.

44Brent
February 23, 2007, 01:59 AM
I disagree that the ISRA is a hunter's organization. I belong to the range outside Kankakee and they have high-power rifle matches there constantly. 300 yard range, 100 yard range, pistol ranges along with a 100 meter range for benchrest people.

From an ISRA email I received today:

In the House Agriculture & Conservation committee the following ISRA supported bills were passed: HB320-Hunting Hours, HB704 Preemption for hunting firearms, HB709 No net loss of habitat, HB151 Free hunting licenses for active duty military, and HB1112 hunting albino deer.

All in all, yesterday was a good day.

Yes, Richard Pearson is a FUDD, and I did send in money to ISRA when I lived in IL. It's so nice to see that he has his priorities straight.

Jeff White
February 23, 2007, 02:38 AM
That's good Brent, let's just fight among ourselves some more. :banghead: I don't hunt, I don't care a thing about hunting, but I think it's a good thing those bills advanced.

If we keep splitting ourselves into our own little niches we're done. If the shooting community can't accept every little aspect of itself into one fight to keep our rights then we're done.

We have met the enemy and it is us.....The historians will write about how the gun culture imploded and the second amendment died.

I hope you like playing Rainbow Six and Counter Strike, because with that kind of an attitude, that's all the shooting that will be left to us. Or should I say youi, cause all of this proposed legislation exempts me even after retirement. But you don't see me saying, I've got mine, screw you guys.....

If the gun culture spent 1/3 of the energy we spend arguing amongst ourselves and whining about this group or that group not being ideologically pure enough for us on the internet, actually doing something to interest the non shooters in our cause and holding the feet of the elected ones to the fire, we wouldn't be in this situation.

Jeff

Thin Black Line
February 23, 2007, 08:13 AM
The Fudd pics and such quotes as:

Some of you guys are FOS..... I suggest you STFU.

are the examples of the "split into factions" I mentioned earlier. It was also
reminiscent of the internal divisions I remember always simmering beneath
the surface back in IL between the state and county gun orgs more than 10
years ago.

Look in the mirror, guys, and work together or I can guarantee you'll never
have CCW and there will be a state-wide AWB before there's a federal one.

GoRon
February 23, 2007, 09:11 AM
44Brent, you should sign up for the ISRA e-mail alerts.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised at the energy and direction of the ISRA.

Autolycus
February 24, 2007, 04:33 PM
SAK is the founder of Icarry.org and he will be leaving us. He has decided to move to New Hampshire as part of the Freestate project.

It seems like people are giving up.

scout26
February 24, 2007, 05:01 PM
IIRC, SB57 was the so-called "Deal with the Devil". We would close the "Gunshow Loophole" and we were supposed to get something back in return (Can't remember what that something was at the moment). Anyway, they voted down SB 57 and passed a "Background checks at Gunshows" only bill.

Yep, We got screwed and the ISRA learned that you can't make bargins with the devil.

Don Gwinn
February 24, 2007, 05:08 PM
Look, whatever, but if the solution is to let Cook County go and decide that Cook County and Chicago can have whatever gun laws Daley dreams up while the rest of us try to hold "the real Illinois," then the fight is over and you should be moving to another state.

Chicago and Cook County have two thirds of this state's population.

Again, Chicago and Cook County represent TWO THIRDS of the population of Illinois. Whatever you can get Cook County to agree on becomes either official policy or law in Illinois, period. Nobody can stop that. So you can either dominate Cook County or lose Illinois.

Thin Black Line
February 25, 2007, 08:27 AM
Look, whatever, but if the solution is to let Cook County go and decide that Cook County and Chicago can have whatever gun laws Daley dreams up while the rest of us try to hold "the real Illinois," then the fight is over and you should be moving to another state.


+1. Chicago is not going to break off as some kind of bronze-age city state
and leave the rest of you alone in the more distant countryside. We've come
a ways since then. Think of it more along the lines of how Washington DC
treats the rest of the country: "I am the lord and you are my serfs. Now
get back to work and pay me your taxes."

NukemJim
February 25, 2007, 09:18 AM
Uhmm... lets see,
Whatever you can get Cook County to agree on becomes either official policy or law in Illinois, period.

I guess I am a little bit confused.

Chicago has had individual gun registration since 1968.

When did Illinois get individual gun registration?

Chicago has not accepeted any new handgun registration (excepting policel/security/alderman) since what 1986 I believe.

When did Illinois stop allowing new handguns?

In Chicago you are only allowed to have ammo/components if you have a firearm of that specific calibre registered in Chicago.

When was that law passed in Illinois?

Please remember there was a Cook County AWB prior to the current AWB.

Again when did Illinois pass an AWB?

Just because Cook County passes something does not mean the state follows suit.

Does it help us to "win" Cook County and lose the whole state?

NukemJim

Deanimator
February 25, 2007, 11:47 AM
Again, Chicago and Cook County represent TWO THIRDS of the population of Illinois. Whatever you can get Cook County to agree on becomes either official policy or law in Illinois, period. Nobody can stop that. So you can either dominate Cook County or lose Illinois.
I'm from Chicago. Most of my family lives in Chicago and or Cook County.

You are NEVER going to change the minds of Chicagoans.

They LIKE the corruption.

They LIKE being victims.

They LIKE having 8' iron fences around their homes, and bars on the doors and windows, which makes the city look like a human ZOO.

As long as somebody plows their street, gives their kids a city summer job, and or steps on the necks of the racial and ethnic groups they don't like, they're HAPPY. The idea that you're responsible for YOURSELF, and that there should be ONE law for EVERYBODY, without bribes, favors or payoffs is more grotesque and bizarre to them than cannibalism.

Is that a negative assessment of Chicago and Chicagoans?

You bet, and it's based on having lived there until I went to college and joined the Army, and having family members who like having Daley's firm hand around their throats, every bit much as Sunnis in Iraq liked Saddam's.

TooTaxed
February 25, 2007, 12:15 PM
"Sitting it out because it's a done deal" is a bad idea.

There is a point to be made that wasting lots of resources on a "done deal" that could be better spent on other battles (and there WILL be other battles!) shouldn't be done.

On the other hand, NO response both emboldens the folks who will propose further restrictions and gives them the idea that the vast majority of their constituents are with them.

So, plan your response...and do it! But plan for future battles also, and get the word out early.

Nanook
February 25, 2007, 12:23 PM
The idea that you're responsible for YOURSELF, and that there should be ONE law for EVERYBODY, without bribes, favors or payoffs is more grotesque and bizarre to them than cannibalism.

That's about the best description of the staus quo in Chicago that I've heard. I grew up there, and beat feet as soon as I could. The problem is, I didn't go far enough.

I should have gone east instead of southwest, but who thought the midget emperor would become the monster he became? When I lived in Chicago, he was still trying to chase ambulances. Now he thinks he's king of the world.

Neo-Luddite
February 25, 2007, 01:17 PM
"The antis even craft their bills with throw away provisions so they can negotiate."


And this one is full of those---no compromise is the only way.

ISRA has a chance of blocking the Cook ban because Daley and Stroger won't have to lose face in the press---no one even knows that the thing passed in the first place. Stroger, Daley and their ilk are low excuses for men let alone politicos--they are cowards.

If you enjoyed reading about "(IL) ISRA takes on Cook AWB" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!