Okay guys, I've got the AR pistol fever but I'm not sure it's worth the expense.
Is it just a high(er) powered .22, or is it possible to actually get some bullet expanding energy out of a short barrel with the right ammunition?
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
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February 22, 2007, 04:03 PM
Been there, done that and got bored with it.
I really wanted to add a stock to it, but i'm not allowed to own an SBR here in the state of Washington. In order to stay out of the federal pen, I sold the upper and am in the process of converting the lower into a real AR15.
Most of the military surplus ammo will not fragment out of a pistol, but you can use some of the tactical SP/HP ammo with good results.
If you can do it, just go spend the $200 and get an SBR.
February 22, 2007, 04:47 PM
If U really want one, buy that Keltec 223 pistol. It is cheaper than the AR pistols, and everyone seems to like them. I have heard that they also have a different gas system, making it easier to clean than an AR pistoll.
But, everyone states that they are LOUD - too loud to want ever use it for self defense w/ no hearing protection.
So, I think it's just a kewl range toy.
February 22, 2007, 05:01 PM
Second on the Kel Tec PLR-16. It's cheaper than a pistol AR, takes the same mags, and doesn't have the silly buffer tube hanging off the back...
But you can't do any upper/lower tricks with it. Well, other than swapping other Kel-Tec SU-16 uppers, which isn't very exciting.
February 22, 2007, 05:04 PM
I was thinking about getting one of those PLR 16's with the picatinny forend and mounting a bipod on it for coyotes at 100-150 yds. Instead though I'm just gonna go for the full size AR so I can nail em all the way out to 300 if I have to. :D
I have to say the PLR has a lot of coolness factor to it, but I think I would get bored with it quickly too.
February 22, 2007, 05:16 PM
I've got the Bushmaster AR pistol (7 inch barrel) and two Kel Tec PLR (9 inch barrel). The BM costs almost twice as much as the KT.
The MV from the Kel Tecs (2,500 fps) mushrooms a bullet just fine and FMJ will go through 1/4 inch steel.
45ACP Gold Dot for comparison.
They are very accurate, shooting 2 1/2 to 1 1/8 inch groups at 100 yards.
What you use the gun for is up to you.
They definately are fun and impressive to shoot but they are also a very powerful, very accurate, high capacity, reliable, big pistol that is easily used against people sized targets form point blank range to about 100 yards.
Plinking at 100 yards. Standing. Two hands. Firing fairly fast.
Mine are loaded around the house. If I had to grab one to shoot an intruder, the noise wouldn't stop me.
February 22, 2007, 05:29 PM
Interesting. My copy of the American Rifleman came yesterday and in it is an advertisement for the Kel-Tec PLR-16 (pg. 42). This morning I downloaded a picture of it from the Kel-Tec web site and was going to start a thread (when I got around to it) about, "what, exactly, do you do with these guys?" It struck me that if can't holster it (which seems likely), then you have to carry it in your hands in the woods. If you have to do that, then why not just carry a rifle (EBR, wood-stocked-bolt gun, whatever you're into). It doesn't seem particularly practical as a self-defense weapon unless you're in the Solient Green / Road Warrior scenario. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind them selling them and I might even like to try shooting one someday, but I just couldn't figure out what they would be used for.
February 22, 2007, 11:31 PM
'what, exactly, do you do with these guys?"
I don't know about other owners but I shoot mine, mostly at 100 yards or in the back yard at 25-35 yards with reduced loads.
Other than that it's small, lite, powerful, high capacity, reliable, accurate, transports easy and will accept all the scopes, lights, lasers, etc, junk that we like to hang on guns.
I keep two loaded PLR's around the house and if I did much driving any more there would be one in the car.
Personally, I would not like to go up against someone armed with that gun that was practiced in using it.
But just like any gun, if a person doesn't have any use for it, it wouldn't make sense buying one.
Me, I can't find enough time to shoot it.:)
I can see where your coming from. I have always thought that this type of pistol was neat, but I have just never been able to justify spending the money on one, and other than just plain fun, I can't think of any practical uses for one whatsoever. I fully admit that I think they would be a hoot, but even with the more reasonable cost of the Kel-Tec, I just can't justify it. That, of course, is just me though.....
February 23, 2007, 04:25 AM
I wish I was a mall ninja... that would be a perfect weapon (well, it would need an underbarrel grenade launcher for less-than-lethal rounds).
Seriously, I like the thing. On my list of "the six thousand guns I desire most." Seems to be a great product.
Come to think of it, it may be one of the best legal (I know SBRs are legal - but they're a pain to get) HD choices you can get - .223 doesn't penetrate walls as much as some rounds, it's effective (it works - FMJ kills terrorists and their ilk quite well - hollowpoints and the like are available for you), and it's in a package the size of a big pistol (okay, really big pistol). You can have it slung on a shoulder under your robe, if you go to the door at night - with lights and lasers galore mounted. It's short, making maneuvering the thing a bit easier, and making disarms more risky.
February 23, 2007, 10:00 AM
Towards the end of no holsters:
You can get a one-point sling for it that hooks on the back behind the pistol grip that lets you sling it under your arm or what have you. I imagine you could roll your own with a spare sling ring and a sliced up bit of nylon webbing.
February 23, 2007, 11:45 AM
Got a PLR-16 with forend, muzzle brake, sling and a red dot. Lots of fun and practical too. 30rds of 223 in a small package. Always gets attention at the range. And it is loud, really loud, especially with ethe muzzle brake. It's a keeper.
February 23, 2007, 06:52 PM
Dman, damn, damn, damn, I HATE living in **********!
February 23, 2007, 07:00 PM
Dman, damn, damn, damn, I HATE living in **********!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Well, those things do look much sweeter than the AR pistols...
February 23, 2007, 07:18 PM
I imagine you could roll your own with a spare sling ring and a sliced up bit of nylon webbing.
The M1 Carbine sling is a good size for the PLR for about $10.
How do you guys shoot those? Two hands on the pistol grip or one on the mag-well or do you simply just shoot from the bench? Looks like it would be a little front heavy for offhand shooting.
February 23, 2007, 09:12 PM
It can be shot two handed, regular pistol style, but that's probably the worst way.
Personally I hold the handguard or front of the magazine well when aiming or hip shooting using a laser/light or Red Dot sight.
Shooting 100 yards from the bench I use a sand bag or bipod and usually a scope ar Red Dot.
When standing or distance shooting I usually use the sling. The two point sling moves the gun close to your face but the PLR doesn't have much recoil. The two point sling, in effect, gives some support like a butt stock.
Some PLR owners use rifle scopes instead of long eye relief pistol scopes.
I use a Red Dot sight.