[Shweboner]

I got into it with my dad yesterday about reliability between our two pistols. Mine, an SAXD9. His, a M66 .357.

Now I know there is less to go wrong in a wheelgun, but I swore up and down that my XD would not fail on me. and so far I am pushing 1000 rounds without a glich... Hell i have close to 3k into my Makarov without ANY hassles! So none of my autos have ever failed me.... but next time we get into it (next time Im there) I need some good ones for him... can anyone give me a list of common failures that afflict revos?


thnx
~brian

[E357]

A clean revolver is hard to beat. However, they can tie up in a number of ways OTHER THAN MECHANICAL FAILURE or ammo failure

1) bullet pulling or jumping under recoil - so the cylinder can't rotate.
2) Pierced primer backing out - cylinder stuck.
3) Crud or powder under extractor star - can't reload (close)
4) extractor rod unscrewing loose - can't open cylinder
5) crud/powder binding front of cylinder to rear of barrel
6) And the usual screw coming loose.

Don't argue with your dad.

Elliot

[David4516]

My Makarov goes bang when I pull the trigger, everytime. You don't get more reliable than that...

That said, I think there is less to go wrong in a wheel gun. There are alot of dependable autos out there, like the makarov. But there are probably more autos out there that 'jam' than there are revolvers that have problems. So I'd say that a good auto is just as good as a wheelgun where dependablitiy is concerned, but wheelguns have the advantage over the 'average' auto...

[ACP230]

I saw a single action revolver put out of action at a Hunter's Pistol silhouette match after a bullet stuck in the forcing cone.
It was a Virginian Dragoon .44 and could have been a bad situation if the spotter hadn't stopped the shooter from firing again.

At another match I saw a new Smith M36 jam with the hammer back and a live round under it. This gun was taken to a gunsmith with a rag wrapped between the hammer and the frame. It couldn't be fixed at the range.

My Ruger Blackhawk .357 stopped indexing the cylinder after a cold trip to a HP silhouette match. A good cleaning cleared that up, but I had to use my .22 backup revolver to shoot the match.

My Smith M649 quit operating in double action mode once. It would still fire if thumb cocked. I showed it to a gunsmith who said it was probably a piece of grit inside somewhere. I cleaned and oiled it, and it has never happened again.

A Smith 1917 used to be notorious for the ejector rod backing out. If I didn't tighten it at intervals in the PPC-type matches I was shooting it would become harder and harder to close the cylinder. I had a gunsmith fix that after a while, but I still check it now and then.

Revolvers do fail. When they do it can be hard to get them going again.

[ACP]

In nearly seven years of shooting, I've never had a revolver (double action Colt, Ruger, S&W) fail to fire.

About half the semiautos I have owned have choked on something.

Non-chokers: Sig Sauer P239, S&W 3913, Browning Hi Power, Kimber Classic Custom.

Chokers: Colt 70 Series, Les Baer, Glock 19, Walther PPK/S, Seecamp 32 LWS.

[caz223]

I had one revolver hang up on me.
A ruger blackhawk loaded with one of my handloads.
The primer wasn't seated all the way.
The cylinder bound up when the extruded primer was in the 11 o'clock position.
All the king's horses and all the king's men took 15 minutes caaaarrrefulllly trying to extract the cylinder without the gun doing it's impersonation of a grenade.
I had many autos malf, with no root cause found.
Also, autos are prone to shooter induced failures like limp wristing, thumb catching the slide, etc.
While a good auto will be reliable enough to use in self-defense, and no gun (Revolver or auto) can be always trusted to be 100% reliable in every situation, I'd say that wheelguns are generally less likely to fail when you need them.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

My belief is that any firearm is subject to CHOKE
at any time. I take great strides to obtain the very
best firearm's that are available; and I treat them with
a lot of TLC.

The two brands that I have the most faith in are as
follows:

Self-Loader's: SIG-Sauer

Revolver's: Smith & Wesson


In over thirty year's of handguning, I have only seen
one that was a pure lemon. And guess what? It was
a Smith & Wesson (fully dressed) model 19! Who on
earth would have ever thunk it? This one should NEVER
have left the QC in Springfield.

So far, since 1988 I have had 0 malfunctions with any
SIG-Sauer self-loader; and this list includes the following
model's: P220A (.45ACP), P226 (9m/m), P228 (9m/m) and a P229 (.40S&W). So, my vote has to go to QUALITY
self-loader's!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Erich]

Other than ammo jamming the cylinders up, the most common goof I've seen on revolvers is a problem that can occur when the triggers of some DA Ruger revos are not allowed to travel far enough forward between shots. The trigger can jam up on the next shot in this circumstance. I've heard this problem described as "short-stroking," and I think it can be overcome by training oneself how to use the Ruger trigger properly.

Semiauto problems I've seen were generally related to ammo, magazines, recoil springs and feed ramps.

[RON in PA]

I've been shooting handguns of both persausions since 1969 and have experienced failures in each, but in general revolvers are less likely to have a problem. Revolvers will get dirtier faster and that can lead to problems. So far the handguns that have never failed me are Russian Makarovs(can't say the same for German or Bulgarian), the Glock 17(other Glocks have seriously jamed on me) the Ruger KP-95, the Sig 228 and the High Power. Have had a Smith M18 die on me (at the smith right now) and a Ruger Service Six that didn't like to get dirty or hot.

[Meowhead]

I have a Ruger Redhawk. Improperly seated primers, sticking out of the back of the cartridge a bit, will occassionally bind up the cylinder. But it's not that big a deal; you just yank the cylinder out, put the round down on something, give the back of it a nice whack with a hammer to push the primer in all the way and you're set. ;)

Also, when the extractor rod is pushed all the way back, there's enough play to occassionally allow a round or empty casing to slip under the star. Only happens when trying to eject empties with the muzzle pointed down, and rarely at that.

The only perfectly reliable handgun I've ever used is my Sig P225.

[curt]

I don't think you're likely to find any hard statistical evidence, only anecdotal. Then manufacturers have no compelling reason to gather such information and certainly none to disclose it since its likely to show that their guns,m no matter who it is, sometime fail. Armed services probably don't since many of them made the decision to switch to autos looong ago. Maybe some big police depts might. However, police or military conditions may vary from a civilians.

But as far as opinions go i think revolvers are less likely to fail but more likely to fail in a way that would be fatal in a gunfight. An auto you can train for and usually get running again.

[Penforhire]

Sounds like it is time for a reliability contest between you and your dad. Call it a 1,000 round shoot-off with cleaning breaks as desired.

[EJ]

Sounds like it is time for a reliability contest between you and your dad. Call it a 1,000 round shoot-off with cleaning breaks as desired.


A FANTASTIC IDEA!!!!!

[Standing Wolf]

All my .22 caliber match pistols are semi-automatics; my carry gun, however, is a revolver.

[bad_dad_brad]

A good quality gun of anytype will be reliable. Robust autoloaders (like the Glock) if dropped will most probably still shoot okay. But if you drop a revolver, well, you definitely have to have it checked out by a gunsmith. Good advice for any firearm dropped, but revolvers are a bit more fragile than most autoloaders.

Other than that, if you buy quality, shoot only FMJs through it, and clean and lubricate per specs, it should do the job when you pull the trigger.

I keep a revolver on the night stand (SP101 .38+P) and when carry is necessary, I go with an autoloader (P32, MK9, or G19). I love to plink with a G17 though.

[bad_dad_brad]

Or JHPs too. What I meant was stay away from lead bullets with no jackets.

[Blueduck]

The notion that revolvers are "bullet proof" reliability wise doesn't hold up at all when you actually see a lot of them on the line regularly.

At twice yearly qualifications (used to be quarterly before budget cuts :( ) I've seen:

(2) Firing pins break, my 640 and one model 60.

(2) Ejector rods unscrew tying up the guns

(1) Cylinder release fall off

(3+) guns that developed light strike problems for a variety of reasons.

(Lots) of revolvers jammed up on a little grit, most problems to least often in this regard: Ruger SP-101, Ruger GP 100, S/W J frame, S/W K-frame- yet to see it ever happen with an L-Frame but we don't see that many of those either.

Those are really the only "malfunctions" I can recall, but you see a lot of even brand new guns fail the inspection because of headspace, cylinder gap, or timing issues. On operator error you see a lot of cases stuck under stars, and I recall one case of a Supervisor who's gun was gummed up because she used "Scrubbing Bubbles" to clean it out the night before :scrutiny:

[arinvolvo]

Ok, the way I look at it is such:

Revolvers are most likely less prone to failure.

Autoloaders (in general) may fail more often, staistically.

HOWEVER. When a revo fails, you have a serious problem...especially in a SD situation.

9 times out of 10, when an auto fails, it is nothing that isnt cured by a quick slap, rack, BANG!

[Jim March]

If have a good quality revolver that I've personally done a checkout on, and I'm running good ammo that I've hand-inspected, then that sucker is gonna go bang more often than a slidegun. Especially if I'm shot, or shooting one-handed off-hand on the run, or while held at a funky angle or whatever.

[Ky Larry]

All guns are machines. They are made of metal,plastic, rubber and wood. The parts are prone to wear,stress, and breakage. Any machine works better when it is clean, properly adjusted, and correctly lubed. I own S&W's,Rugers, CZ's,Colts, Kimbers,Beretta's, and a T/C Contender. They are autos,revolvers, and a single shot. I'd trust my life to any of them.
The main consideration should be which you shoot best.

[George Hill]

Ruger revolvers are much more bullet proof than Smiths.

At my police acadamy we took a GP100 and threw it to the ground repeatedly, threw it up against a brick wall, and put the front tire of a patrol car on it and turned the wheel lock to lock.

Then fired the gun in qualification course. Even without the rear sight it did just fine.

[Blueduck]

George,

Far as bouncing them off stuff or shooting lots of heavy loads I'm not going to disagree with you. But at qualifications we constantly see more Rugers tie up than Smiths (and there are far fewer Rugers than Smiths at these shoots). Several trainers carry the SP 101, but they also joke that they just bought them to show us what NOT to buy :uhoh:

That said, other than persistantly choking on our dirty practice ammo I've never seen one have an actual mechanical breakage of any type.

[E357]

I agree with George Hill, I would throw my Rugers against the wall before I would my Smiths.

Elliot

[ACP]

I love my 686, but my GP100 was hell for stout, and just as accurate.

[Topgun]

Carry an auto if you have an armed buddy.

Carry a revolver if you're all ALONE.

1. Always carry factory ammo.
2. If you have DROPPED your gun, you are already gone.
3. NEVER depend on a magazine fed firearm.

[Nick96]

Give it up you snotty little brat - Dad's always right. Someday you can get into the same piss'in match with your own off spring. And guess what - YOU WILL BE RIGHT!!!.

Besides, you really know he's right - don't you???

[Mike Irwin]

Actually, the same kind of fatal malfunction that will stop a revolver, such as a squib round loding a bullet in the barrel, will also stop a semi-automatic in its tracks.

There are FEW version specific failures that would drop a revolver and not a semi-auto, and vice versa.

If it jams one, it's going to jam the other.

[Mike Irwin]

"Ruger revolvers are much more bullet proof than Smiths.

At my police acadamy we took a GP100 and threw it to the ground repeatedly, threw it up against a brick wall, and put the front tire of a patrol car on it and turned the wheel lock to lock.

Then fired the gun in qualification course. Even without the rear sight it did just fine."

Did you conduct a similar "test" with a Smith & Wesson, or are you just extrapolating and guessing that if a Ruger revolver survived this, a Smith & Wesson revolver woudn't?

And, as has been pointed out repeatedly in threads over the years, what happens to a single gun doesn't extrapolate well over the entire production run.

Finally, you remember my "Charter Arms Revolver Drop Test Results" from The Firing Line?

[sm]

Mr. Murphy applies his law to all platforms.
Quality metals/designs inspected and maintained...even then Mr. Murphy can show up.

Sometimes it is just the shooter, heck , I have a brother that could ruin a perfectly good anvil by bringing it home. To expedite damage, give him a rubber mallet...I'm serious.:p

[longeyes]

9 times out of 10, when an auto fails, it is nothing that isnt cured by a quick slap, rack, BANG!

Unless it's the run of stovepipes I recently had with my Sistema. How about tap, rack, apply needle-nose pliers, pray? :D

[jc2]

9 times out of 10, when an auto fails, it is nothing that isnt cured by a quick slap, rack, BANG!
If you can "cure" it with a "quick slap, rack, BANG" in an auto, you can cure it by pulling the trigger again in a revolver!

[Rob96]

Me personally, haven't experienced the triggers on my Ruger SP-101 or KGP-141 bind up from not letting it return fully. But then out of habit, I let the triggers return fully on all of my guns.

[arinvolvo]

The point I was trying to make is that, when a fails, a lot of the time it is a catastrophic failure (like the cylinder locking up), and with autos, a stovepipe or FTF, or FTE is usually never catastrophic.

[longeyes]

"The point I was trying to make is that, when a fails, a lot of the time it is a
catastrophic failure (like the cylinder locking up), and with autos, a stovepipe or
FTF, or FTE is usually never catastrophic."

I get your point but I have to wonder whether in an actual confrontation any "failure to..." isn't likely to be terminal. I know this: I didn't get my Sistema ready for another shot very quickly and normally I don't walk around with needle-nose pliers. This was a gun that had run over two thousand rounds without a malf, by the way, at the time it hiccupped.

[coorsleftfield]

It's harder to properly pistol whip someone with an auto, once you empty the mag into them.. So I'll take
a revolver, and for pistol whipping, I recommend a square butt.

[Blueduck]

coorsleftfield, you've obviouisly never seen my 4506 ;)

[Mike Irwin]

"The point I was trying to make is that, when a fails, a lot of the time it is a catastrophic failure (like the cylinder locking up)..."

If you know how to handle it, a cylinder lock up caused by a primer backing out can actually be cleared fairly quickly with the proper application of force.

If the cylinder locks up because of a fault in the lockwork, that's really no different than a semi-auto lock up due to say, a finger breaking off of a collet-style bushing, for example.

But I'd say that, by far, the greatest cause of semi-auto malfunctions can be traced to the magazines. The general fragility of magazine feed lips is a good reason for always carrying a spare magazine.

[EJ]

It's really hard to ake this seriously--
The revolver is significantly more reliable --
Regardles if the malfunction is ammunition or firearm defect induced--

Autos have made tremendous strides and can be trusted in all circumstances-- even to save one's life--
But-- They are simply more complex and require a balance of many aspects to function--

[Dave T]

NEVER depend on a magazine fed firearm.


Then why do all military forces in the world do just that???

-- They are simply more complex and require a balance of many aspects to function--

The above was referring to semiautos. Sorry but most semiautos have fewer parts and those parts are not as critically fitted as the lock work of a DA revolver.

This argument has been repeated on every board I have ever visited. How about those of you who favor revolvers carry revolvers and those who favor semiautos should carry semiautos. There, now everybody's happy.

[Topgun]

The MILITARY uses autos for firepower. The MILITARY regards casualties as "normal."

All military powers want as much lead going downrange as possible. If the shooter dies, it means a letter to Mom.

A CCW user wants RELIABILITY. If he is in a situation against multiple targets, he has not done his due diligence in being aware of the situation. Usually.

Using FACTORY rounds USUALLY eliminates high primers as the machines are set to check for that. What factories do NOT know is if the primer is any good.

I can't count the number of times Federal ammo has failed to fire for me. Mostly rimfire but CF also. Federal has been my main culprit, but I have had all do it.

Statistically, a DUD is more to be expected from factory ammo than a high primer.

When "CLICK" is what you hear, screw the rack, smack, hack.

I'll go for another trigger pull every time.

The probability of a malfunction is remote but MORE remote in a revolver.

[arinvolvo]

All I hear is "blah blah blah blah"

:evil: :neener:

[only1asterisk]

S&W 625 45 ACP
7,000 rounds
Failure to feed: 0
Failure to eject: 0
Failure to fire: 0
Feeds any bullet style lead wadcutter to big mouth hollow point.
Shoots target ammo to full power 45 Super without adjustment.
Cost $360 used

STI Custom 45 ACP
1500 rounds
Failure to feed: 200+ (magazine related)
Failure to eject: 15 (spring related)
Failure to fire: 0
Have yet to get the $#^$#&* thing to feed right.
Cost over $1000 new

H&K USP 9mm (full size)
5000 rounds
Failure to feed: 0
Failure to eject: 0
Failure to fire: 0
Wish I had it back.
Cost $485 new

S&W 5906
3000 rounds
Failure to feed: 6 (ammo)
Failure to eject: 1
Failure to fire 0
A bargin. Should have held on to this one.
Cost $325 (police trade in)

I have had good luck with auto pistols as defensive arms until my new 1911. That being said the revolver is still a valid fighting tool with it's own advantages. If something touches the slide of an auto during it's cycle, it will probably jam. Dollar for $ revolvers will outshoot autos. Revolvers will run with all sorts of ammo that will stop an auto cold. They have their disadvantages too. Revolves are slightly more difficult to conceal. They must hold close tolerences in order to fuction properly and are thus more sensitive to debris or lack of cleaning. Revolvers have finite ammunition capacity and are slower to reload. If you endurence race an auto against a revolver and let the revolver person use jacteted ammo or wipe the cylinder face down every once in a while, you will run out of money before you prove anything.

Dave

[makdaddy03]

Ill take the Makarov over any gun out there.:neener:

[aircarver]

I had a Mak ftf one time.....

....i was shocked....
....I was appalled....

...I had shoved in an empty magazine......

...oOps- .... :D

[David4516]

aircarver, I like your story :)

I've never seen a Mak fail to feed, fire, or eject...

[Mike Irwin]

I was shooting a friend's Mak a few years ago, and was having problems with it. It was failing to chamber a new round, or even pick up a new round from the magazine, about twice every mag.

Previously he said it had been working flawlessly for him, so we popped it apart to see if something was amiss...

I'll say. The recoil spring looked like hell.

Turns out it had dropped off his bench, and he stepped on it and flattened out a couple of coils trying to chase it down.

He didn't have another, so he straightened it out as best he could, and put it back in the gun.

I figure it was either kinking or dragging and bindly badly, and it was enough to impede the slide.

[Jeff Timm]

In the spirit of compromise.

If you head into trouble, carry one of each.

Geoff
Who calls this the "Indiana Jones Solution" and wouldn't feel terribly disarmed with a .45 Automatic and a .38/44 S&W Outdoorsman....:D

[10-Ring]

I've seen both fail...primarily caused by bad ammo or FILTHY gun. That said, to maximize reliability, I keep my guns as clean as possible & shoot quality factory ammo ;)
Good luck

[BowStreetRunner]

Maks........::::drool::::
oooook
my philosophy is carry what you want to carry
if you trust your semi, then use it
if the gun is not for protection (life or death situations) then the reliability question is a little less important
i have to say that if i had a choice bewteen a wheel gun and a semi, neither of which i had seen or touched before, and i had to defend my life with one right away, i would pick the revolver (quality being equal - if its between an RG and a SIG then its no contest)
but my Mak works for me....so thats what Ill be carrying as soon as I can
BSR

[355sigfan]

A good shooter with a good revolver with good ammo can defend him or herself well. That said revolvers are not the best choice for serious social work anymore. I still think they have a place as small airweight back up guns. But the days of the front line police/military/ccw revolver are over and the last shovel of dirt has been thrown on he coffin.
PAT

[GitSome45]

One should carry/use whichever gives him/her PIECE OF MIND...

(Piece of mind is priceless)

As for "Reliability", nowdays with the advances in "Auto" designs, and the Precision Manufacturing processes used to such tight +/- tolerances, you will probably not have any trouble in your moment of need... (assuming of course that you have tested and trained with and worked out the bugs on ANY gun that you are carrying for S.D... )

Keep your weapon clean, and keep it lubed...! Any gun will become UNRELIABLE if it goes unkept or dirty, especially if it is "dry" (lubrication evaporation) or picks up "crud" in the action from dirty enviroment..(holster, pocket, etc...) OR if it is OVER-LUBRICATED and picks up dirt/debris in the action and "Sludges up"... Maintain IT well, and it will Maintain YOU well...

JMHO,

Howard