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June 6, 2003, 12:38 PM
Interesting looking Saiga. The one in that picture has the bulges under the charging handle like an RPK or VEPR (VEPR is built on an RPK receiver). Never seen a Saiga with those as it is built on a regular AK receiver. :confused:
June 6, 2003, 04:17 PM
I doubt that a Saiga will shoot inside 1.5 inches at 100 yards. That's 1.5 MOA.
Your typical military rifle from a NON-combloc country will shoot 2-4 MOA at best, using commercial ammo. At typical commercial bolt rifle will shoot 1-2 MOA at best, unless fed unusually good ammo (handloads).
Thus, you are asking for commercial bolt action type accuracy out of a rifle that has the following inhibiting features:
1. Combloc barrel/action tolerances
2. Stamped sheet metal receiver
3. Short sight radius, with inferior "notch-type" rear sight.
4. Light but creepy trigger.
Given those characteristics, I would be happy if a Saiga gave 3-4 MOA.
By the way, it is well documented that a typical Combloc military AK-47/AKM will deliver about 6-8 MOA with milspec Combloc ammo, and about 4-6 MOA with commercial ammo.
I see no reason to expect a Saiga to be significantly better than this.
June 6, 2003, 04:47 PM
On the other hand, I've been surprised by the accuracy potential of some of the Combloc rifles I've shot. I personally think much of the supposed accuracy problem is caused by the poor sights more than any mechanical defect.
I have a Vepr K that will hold 3 MOA consistently. And it is a 7.62x39, not nearly as much good ammo to choose from in this caliber. I have gotten 2 MOA a few times, but not consitently.
I have a friend who has a .223 AK (SAR believe it or not) that holds under 2 MOA. Nope not exagerating.
I would hazard a guess that the .223 Saiga will probably be capable of 3 MOA or better. 2 MOA possible.
June 6, 2003, 04:56 PM
red star arms had a .pdf on shooting the .223 MOLOT Vepr in highpower:
Fig. 1 The results from 200-yard trial at Pioneer range, notice the 7-shot cluster
forming a nice 2.75” group about 2” low and 1” right of the X-ring. The shot
group was achieved using the center-mass hold shot from sling supported prone
June 6, 2003, 05:13 PM
I would agree with Correia that most of the issue with the AK type rifles (and the Saiga is an AK derivative) is the sighting system is NOT conducive to accurate shooting.
I know that numerous tests by US military personnel on captured, donated, or otherwise acquired AK's tends to show less than impressive accuracy, but it sounds like at least one or two commerical AK type rifles have been shown to better that performance...........
June 6, 2003, 09:07 PM
This very day I shot a 1.5" group from my .223 SAR-3.
First group of the day at 100 yards. Using PMP "Gazelle" ammo.
It won't hold that kind of accuracy with a warm barrel. After a few groups, I'm at 4-5". That's the best it'll do with a warm barrel.
But the last 3 times I shot it at the range, I believe, the first groups were under 2".
It won't do those groups with Wolf ammo, even cold. But it will with handloads.
Edited to get back on topic. I have not shot either a Saiga or a VEPR .223. But their reputation is that they are more accurate than a SAR. OTOH, the SAR is lighter, cuz it uses a stamped receiver.
June 7, 2003, 01:06 AM
Thanx all, for your input! I'm beginning to think that a 2" Hundred yard group should be considered an average....with good ammo, from a bench. And one may well do better.....:cool:
I was wondering if such a rifle, with scope, could work out as a good Coyote gun - with enough accuracy to do in the occasional 100 yard Rock Chuck. Hmmmmm.......Perhaps.....:scrutiny:
June 7, 2003, 02:10 AM
The Saiga's do have a nice rail to put a scope on. I was going to buy a Saiga and the shop messed up the order. I bought the $40 mount from CDNN and still have it. In the meantime I purchased a CZ-75, CZ452 and CZ527. Don't know if I will be getting the Saiga now. If you want the scope mount I'll sell it for $30 shipped. It is brand new never been on a gun.
June 7, 2003, 08:17 PM
I have an EAA Saiga in .223 with a 16 inch barrel, that I use a lot on the ranch. The Saiga has a 1 in 7 twist that likes 64 grain bullets much better than the lighter ones. It is a 2 moa rifle. I haven't gotten the scope yet, because it is so fast and handy with iron sights. The rifle is tough and AK reliable. Wouldn't take for it.