How to make the perfect Sniper Rifle


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Aaryq
February 23, 2007, 07:14 PM
Howdy, Folks. I'm curious what you would do to make the perfect sniper rifle (assuming it's chambered in something that will take down a deer at 500+ yards). Let's also assume that your budget is $5000 initially and you can put $100 a month for 5 more months. Also keep in mind bolt action is preferred, but rifles recognized as sniper rifles from the get-go like the Dragunov will also be acceptable. It's meant to be a deer rifle (and if it can also take down an elk or a moose, that would be great but not required).

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ugaarguy
February 23, 2007, 07:19 PM
Sit back for a good read http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240602

jakk280rem
February 23, 2007, 07:46 PM
simple enough. two choices for you. first tca encore stainless frame, stainless edm rifled 26" barrel from ottllc.com chambered in .280 ack. imp.
your choice of thumbhole stocks, and a burris black diamond 8-32x50.
second, a rem 700 action, shillen double x barrel, again all in stainless and 26" chambered in same cal. same scope, with either a houge overmolded, or a hs precision synthetic stock. then i'de take the 2500 or so left over and get a piar of leica geovids and have enough left for hunting licence, tags, ammo, and whatever other incidental i didnt mention.

p.s. if loading your own ammo doesnt suit you. i'de exchange the 280ai for 257 wby mag.

mustanger98
February 23, 2007, 08:16 PM
My opinion... and this is only the opinion of an amateur student of history as well as a shooter... I'd just get a pre-64 Model 70 in .30-06 because that's what Hathcock used his first tour in Vietnam. Not yet sure what I'd glass it with, but nothing extra fancy. IIRC, Hathcock's rifle used a 3x9 Redfield. And the issue round was a 173gr match load, but what an individual rifle shoots best might mean a change in bullet weight.

Brian Williams
February 23, 2007, 08:20 PM
I would take a Rem 700 short action to Banser Rifles just north of me and have him work some magic on it, even though I prefer Win 70s.
Not sure what scope, but might end up with precision receiver sights instead, if it is limited to 500 yds.

mustanger98
February 23, 2007, 08:27 PM
My first choice of sights is always the receiver-mounted aperture, but I'm never sure whether I want a globe or open blade on front. I only mentioned not being sure of which scope because the OP specified "sniper". ***shrug*** If I were going to do this though, I have this Nat'l Ord. '03A3 and I wouldn't be goofing up history to mount a Williams Foolproof w/ target knobs in place of the issue rear sight. But I've always heard how good the issue sight was.

Question on the '03A3 while I'm thinking of it... didn't they make a National Match rear sight for it?

oregonhunter
February 23, 2007, 08:28 PM
Have GAP bulid you a .308
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/liftedf150/twoboltguns.jpg

SUBMOAS
February 23, 2007, 08:29 PM
I would do this.....
http://mcmfamily.com/tactical/rifles/magnum.asp
http://mcmfamily.com/tactical/img/rifles/magnum.jpg

CWL
February 23, 2007, 08:56 PM
For $600 I bought a Ruger M77 VLE in .308 and glassed it with a Leupold Mark 4 10x40mm and have shot 2.1" groupings at 300 yards (.7 MOA). Total cost, ~$1000. That's good enough for me in a precision rifle. Don't think there's that much to hunt at 500 yards in CA, but with the $ you save, you can take precision rifle classes. Here in No. CA, you can have off-duty SWAT officers train you how to shoot out to 700 yards.

I have been gently reminded by local SWAT Sniper as well as Marine Sniper friend that "Sniper" is a job classification, not a gun.

Aaryq
February 23, 2007, 09:02 PM
Well my hunting will be in Gods Country (AKA North Dakota). I really only need to engage deer at 100-300 yards, but I would like to shoot long distances with my buds.

db_tanker
February 23, 2007, 09:50 PM
Savage 110FP

Burris Signature mount and rings

Scope of your choice


plenty of 300 Win mag ammo... :)


D

Jackal
February 23, 2007, 09:51 PM
Pay someone else to do it.:neener:

CDignition
February 23, 2007, 09:57 PM
GAP AR10T with USO glass...:)

http://www.cdignition.com/images/DSC01654_resize.JPG
http://www.cdignition.com/images/DSC01651_resize.JPG

Zak Smith
February 23, 2007, 10:13 PM
Already done for you: AI-AW. Designed from the ground up as a sniper platform.

rangerruck
February 23, 2007, 10:36 PM
thats tough, I am budget minded my self, so I would whip out a Savage master catalog, and find something with a 26 inch bbl, I would put that in a accutrigger action, and put it in one of their fx black style stocks, or something in a nice digital, white and tan breakup. now for calibers, that is a little tougher. The general consesus among longe range hitter is, you wanna be able to shoot a bullet that weighs at least 180 grains, and it should be going at a minimum of 3100fps from the muzzle. These stats will get you a long flat way, way, way out there, with lots of energy left over. To hit this, you would proly have to get a 300 winmag, but the ammo will cost more, a lot more unless you handload, otherwise get a 308, but the king of the long range would be to handload a 6.5 284, or the 7mm/300wsm winmag. these two handloaded will really reach way out there, and you may be able to factory buy the 6.5 284. the 7mm wsm is a diff animal alltogether. it is a 300 wsm, necked down to 7mm. There is a guy , who using this setup, just set the new world record bench rest shot at 1000 yds. He shot a group at 1000 YARDS, THAT WAS 2.67 INCHES IN SIZE!!!! That is sick. http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek071.html

taliv
February 23, 2007, 10:37 PM
oh, and don't forget: just because you CAN shoot a deer at 500+ yrds doesn't mean you SHOULD.

you should know that if you shoot a deer in the ass at 1000 yrds and it's still alive by the time you pack your crap up and hike over to it, expect the responses here to be overwhelmingly negative.

roscoe
February 24, 2007, 12:06 AM
$5000 is a lot for a deer rifle.

jakk280rem
February 24, 2007, 12:47 AM
5 g's isnt a lot of money for someone willing to spend it.

Wasz
February 24, 2007, 08:34 AM
I would take a Rem 700 short action to Banser Rifles just north of me and have him work some magic on it, even though I prefer Win 70s.
Not sure what scope, but might end up with precision receiver sights instead, if it is limited to 500 yds.

I was watching them build rifles lastnight on TV!!!!

Smith357
February 24, 2007, 08:53 AM
Building the rifle is the easy part.
Making a sniper is the hard part. It takes a lot of practice, with some training, and a bit more practice. Then once you've done all that, you can really get into some serious practice and training. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I am a very good shot, but I will never be a sniper, I don't have the patience or discipline it takes to be a sniper.

El Tejon
February 24, 2007, 08:57 AM
5.5K? Just have the guys at Robar build one to suit. http://www.robarguns.com/

Lots of great builders out. Work with the one you are most comfortable.

Or, if you want NIB, buy a .308 from AIW: http://www.ketmer.com/ai/index.htm

Lots of solid guns out there. Finding the guns is easy, finding the men that are up to the guns is very, very difficult.

USSR
February 24, 2007, 09:48 AM
Have GAP bulid you a .308

+1. Since you did state "make" and "perfect".

Don

foob
February 24, 2007, 11:57 AM
What does GAP stand for?

Zak Smith
February 24, 2007, 12:06 PM
http://gaprecision.net

blackhawk2000
February 24, 2007, 12:18 PM
http://www.surgeonrifles.com/index.htm?id=1

ALS
February 24, 2007, 03:31 PM
There is always Iron Brigade Armory. They have more than a few of their guns in the sandbox. I should know I had to wait an extra 6 months to get one built due to the fact that 30 of their guns were being shipped to the Mideast 2 months before the Iraq invasion. I am in no way complaining since our boys deserve to have the absolute best Sniper Rifles built.
IBA (http://www.deathfromafar.com/)
Hit the page refresh to see different pictures of our boys in uniform getting some new toys from IBA.
There is also McMillan Bros rifles. Ask Kelly McMillan or Norm Chandler who builds the best gun and they will both will say I want to you buy mine but if that is not possible buy the others gun. Mcmillan Bros Rifles (http://www.mcbrosrifles.com/)
BTW the Canadian Army Snipers hold the record for the longest distance confirmed kill using a McMillan .50 cal Sniper Rifle. Article on the 2430 meter shot (http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/KillingShot_2430Metres.asp)

Mute
February 24, 2007, 10:29 PM
Off the shelf and ready to go: AI-AW.

Custom solution designed to your specs:

GAP (http://gaprecision.net/)
Norcal Precision (http://www.norcalprecision.com/)
RD Precision (http://rdprecision.net/)
Terry Cross of KMW - kmw308@aol.com

There are a number of other highly qualified smiths that can build you the rifle that's perfect for you (there isn't any one perfect rifle).

MJ
February 25, 2007, 11:16 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/bkt099.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/bkt080.jpg

:confused:

mustanger98
February 25, 2007, 05:55 PM
MJ, Which chambering is this one?

I have a Savage Model 11GL in .243Winchester. I haven't gotten it to group that tight yet, but it seems to like either Winchester PowerPoints or S&B SP's, both in 100gr. But then, I'm using a 40 year old fixed 4X in see-throughs too. It came with cheapo sights on the barrel, but you about can't see through 'em, or at least I can't. Come payday, I figure to call my gunsmith and get that Williams FP/TK mounted. I can just hear all the "glass addicts" scream, but I figure to shoot my hunting rifle more like an '03A3 I know of, except for the obvious left-handed bolt.

MJ
February 25, 2007, 08:11 PM
three O eight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/bkt081.jpg

:cool:

plexreticle
February 25, 2007, 08:13 PM
Spend $1000 on a rifle, $1000 on a scope and $4000 on shooting lessons, books, ammo and range practice.

TargetShooter2
February 25, 2007, 08:27 PM
dont have a sniper rifle but here's a pic of my deer rifle .

TS2

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/bluevtx/Sako%20TRG-22/2006_0518nsxscope20007.jpg

MJ
February 25, 2007, 09:38 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/bulgaria.jpg

:neener:

cookie4u1
February 25, 2007, 10:31 PM
Savage new model 12 F/TR. Awesome rifle.1" groups at 500 yards.MSRP $1142. .308 Winchester. Can't go wrong.

USSR
February 26, 2007, 08:28 AM
Savage new model 12 F/TR. Awesome rifle.1" groups at 500 yards.

Yeah, right.:rolleyes:

Don

El Tejon
February 26, 2007, 08:30 AM
cookie, do you mean 1 MOA at 500 yards?:uhoh: :confused:

shark3-1
February 26, 2007, 10:40 AM
cookie4u1 "Savage new model 12 F/TR. Awesome rifle.1" groups at 500 yards.MSRP $1142. .308 Winchester. Can't go wrong."

A 1/5 MOA factory rifle! Good bye Accuracy International, SAKO, Surgeon, GA Precision, PAI, KMW, McBros, etc., there's a new guy in town.

Sniper X
February 26, 2007, 11:02 AM
The only perect sniper rifle, easy....Erma SR100 with all three barrels. You get a 7.62mm Nato, a .300 Win mag, and the best long range round, the .338 Lapua Magnum. all three barrels, all three mags, and in .338 LM you are looking at any competent sniper being able to make shots at 1200M.

Sniper X
February 26, 2007, 11:03 AM
Hey MJ, nice SS10X42...I have one and love it.

MJ
February 26, 2007, 01:35 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/t001.jpg

:neener:

cookie4u1
February 26, 2007, 10:55 PM
According to the April 2007 Shooting Times magazine review stated that all factory loads went under 1 MOA at 500 yards for the Savage 12F/TR.It says that the rifle willshoot less than minute-of-angle groups at distances out to 1000 yards with factory ammo. Check out the review in the magazine. Like I said awesome rifle...mark

cookie4u1
February 26, 2007, 11:12 PM
I left out the article did say they shot sub-1-inch hand-load groups at 500 yards.

foob
February 26, 2007, 11:14 PM
cookie, 1 MOA at 500 yards isn't 1" groups at 500 yards. 1 MOA at 500 yards is 1 MOA at 100 yards is 1 MOA at any yards. Approximately 1 MOA is 1" groups at 100 yards. Group size increases with distance.

Even if the shooter does everything perfect (maybe a robot), wind will make it extremely difficult or lucky to achieve
less than minute-of-angle groups at distances out to 1000 yards with factory ammo.

Zak Smith
February 26, 2007, 11:30 PM
Look, it's not impossible for a .308 rifle to shot a 1" three or five-shot group at 500 yards. I have seen a few sub-2" groups at 1000 yards. Can these be produced on-demand? Only by a very small population of shooters, the vast majority of them we call "1000-yard benchrest shooters." But even a blind squirrel can find an acorn sometimes, and anyone who shoots long range regularly will get lucky and shoot a few very small groups.

Even with a perfectly consistent rifle and ammunition, the key to long-range hits is the shooter judging wind changes correctly. There are way more 1 MOA rifles than 1 MOA shooters at 1000, 500 or even 100 yards.

rustymaggot
February 26, 2007, 11:36 PM
as i understand minute of angle means 1/60th of a degree. minute meaning a 60th of the stated measurement, and angle meaning 1/360th of the whole.

an example would be that the moon is 30moa, or half a degree. kinda puts things in perspective, i always thought the moon looked small, till i looked at a 1 inch circle at 100 yards.

rustymaggot
February 26, 2007, 11:38 PM
There are way more 1 MOA rifles than 1 MOA shooters

amen.

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