[jlbraun]

I read an Ayoob article about this and was wondering if this teaching is commonplace among military/police/civilian shooters.

Basically, as you reholster you place the pad of your thumb against the back of the hammer. If you feel the hammer start to move when reholstering, you can stop :eek: and clear whatever is binding the trigger.

Seems useful to shooters of DA/SA pistols like Sigs as well as DA revolvers, so I thought I would post it. No use to Glockers though. :)

[carterbeauford]

Not touching the trigger works just fine when I reholster my 1911.

Sure no one wants to have a ND, I'm sure not many people want to experience a ND with their thumb anywhere behind the slide of a 1911 either.

[perpster]

Nothing wrong with thumb-on-hammer as long as you do it in such a manner that your thumb isn't in a position to accidentally cock the hammer. For example, keep thumb below the spur, not on the spur. Make sure you're pushing it gently forward against the hammer, and not pulling the hammer back towards you.

With the Glocks, I've put my finger on the rear of the trigger (about the 5 o'clock position for a righty) and gently pushed forward on it during reholstering in order to avoid a discharge if the trigger gets pushed rearward by an obstruction. The Glock "trigger safety" has never inspired much confidence IMHO. ANYTHING, not just a finger, can depress the "safety" quite inadvertantly and allow the gun to fire.

YMMV

[HSMITH]

Not me, I am comfortable knowing the round won't hit me if the gun were to magically go off during holstering and I am comfortable knowing it won't hit anyone else since I actually know what is around me while holstering. Having the thumb where described sounds like a great way to have it broken badly if the gun did go off somehow...

[jaysouth]

Most of my carry is 1911 or Smith 3913. With either, I keep my thumb on the hammer when holstering IWB. Just a little extra caution to keep from burning my backside.

[pax]

Actually, it's a good habit with Glocks, too -- not to prevent an ND, but to prevent the slide from being marginally bumped out of battery when you holster.

No real downside to it that I can think of.

Marty Hayes teaches it, and Massad Ayoob still teaches it. Not sure about others but I'm sure they're out there.

pax

[GreenFurniture]

It's a really bad idea and habit to get into.

[pax]

GreenFurniture ~

Why? What downside are you seeing?

pax

[psyopspec]

It's a really bad idea and habit to get into.

Could you elaborate? To me, it sounds like it's one of those things that may not help, but certainly won't hurt. What makes it a bad idea?

[trueblue1776]

it's military teaching from back when they first adopted the M9 Beretta

[Black Majik]

It's a really bad idea and habit to get into.

Really? Why?

In a class I took with Bruce Gray, he specifically mentioned this technique to ensure the hammer doesn't cock while holstering/isn't cocked. We were taught to put the thumb pad on the top of the hammer.

Seemed like a good idea for cheap insurance. If you ensure the gun cant fire by blocking the hammer, then the gun can't fire.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Is this assuming the safety that either blocks or retracts the firing pin is broken?

[daysleeprx]

It's a really bad idea and habit to get into.

Care to qualify this statement? :confused:

[rockstar.esq]

I guess it's not something I'd identify as a bad idea. It seems awkward to me on semi autos, far less so with revolvers. At a minimum it weakens the grip on the gun by pulling your thumb to the rear. Personally I just focus on decocking my semi autos (no 1911's thanks for asking) before holstering. Additionally I tend to consider holstering something that doesn't need to be fast so I'm used to taking my time with it.

[ZeSpectre]

Here I go with the "old fart" bit again (and damn it I'm not that old). When I was an LEO a lot of us still carried double action wheelguns. This was common practice.

Not really sure it applies to semi-autos though I do a small "thumb push" with my XD-40 to make sure it's fully seated in the holster. The little dimple it leaves on my thumb also reassures me that it's cocked and ready.

I don't get a dimple from my Taurus Mil-Pro but I do the same thing out of habit.

[Henry Bowman]

I always do it with my cocked and locked 1911 whether with IWB or OWB.

[Zak Smith]

When reholster 1911's, my thumb is pressing up on the thumb safety. I believe the thumb safety blocks the sear anyway.

[j_miles]

When you re-holster using a Beretta M9, especially with a new Safariland drop leg, it is possible to "half or quarter cock" the beretta making the hood retention hard to disengage. I have also had a problem with the Sig 226 and the same drop leg holster, coming out of battery. The thumb over the top on a DA/SA gun, in my opinion, is a good thing.

[1911 guy]

With a striker fired pistol, I can see the benefit of "thumbing" the slide to ensure it doesn't get pushed out of battery.

For a hammered pistol, I see no use in putting your thumb *on top* of the hammer as specified in the OP. By the time you "feel it move", the hammer will have dropped. Putting the thumb *in front of* the hammer makes much more sense. Of course, I'm assuming C&L carry here.

For decocker equipped pistols and revolvers, I can see the merit in placing a thumb over the hammer to prevent cocking.

Personally, though, I use good leather, keep my finger off the trigger and ensure my holster isn't obstructed when I holster the pistol.

[El Tejon]

Do not know about how common. The only gun skul which has advised this that I have attended was LFI. However, I have done this at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, and Awerbuck classes, etc. no one has commented on it.

[Steve in PA]

Nothing wrong with the technique. Have no idea why someone thinks its a bad idea and habit.

[DMK]

I carry a 1911. The hammer is *supposed* to be cocked. ;) I put my thumb under the safety to verify it's up.

My J-frame is hammerless. :)

[PILMAN]

I figured thats what the decocker on my USP was for?

[jlbraun]

@PILMAN

The idea is that on a DA/SA pistol or a revolver, if something catches on the trigger and starts to push it back as you're holstering, then you can feel the hammer start to cock as the trigger is pushed.

[Fly320s]

On 1911s I hold the safety on with my thumb.

On striker fired guns, such as the HK USP, I hold the hammer forward with my thumb.

In both cases it is to prevent accidental discharges while holstering. It is possible for something to get into the holster and push on the trigger while holstering.

I also double knot my shoe laces. :neener:

[Old Dog]

I figured thats what the decocker on my USP was for?
Hmm. Well, my department issues us the USP-9, and we are constantly reminded during pistol training and qualification/re-qualification to keep our thumb on the hammer when holstering ...

Still anxiously waiting to find out why Green Furniture states it's a bad idea and bad habit ...

[perpster]

I always holster my Glock with my thumb on the back of the slide to keep it in battery, and my finger on the back/side of the trigger to keep it from being pushed back (regadless of the quality of holster it's going into). After holstering I give a little tug on the floor plate of the mag to make sure the mag is still locked in. I think it's a prudent and useful routine. This is not to say that not doing it is in any way deficient; just a good habit IMHO.

[geekWithA.45]

1911 guy correctly points out that where your thumb goes depends on the type of pistol you have.

This technique has literally saved my literal ass.

[Bart Noir]

Fly320s, you posted:

On striker fired guns, such as the HK USP, I hold the hammer forward with my thumb.

To respectfully disagree with you, this is only a possibility with a hammer fired gun where normal carry is with the hammer down, as in the SA/DA or DA only ones where you lower the hammer before holstering (SIG, USP, S&W double action models etc).

A striker fired gun is the Glock, the Smith M&P, the Springfield XD etc. They have no hammer. You can't put your thumb on something that isn't there. The best thing is to be very sure of not having your trigger finger near the trigger.

OBTW, do you fly the baby Airbus?

Bart Noir

[massad ayoob]

With the Springfield Armory XD, placing the thumb on the back of the slide will remove the web of the hand from the back of the grip-frame. This will activate the XD's grip safety, and prevent discharge if something impinges the trigger area during holstering.

Keeping the finger clear is not enough. In recent years there have been ADs during holstering when the trigger was caught by a safety strap or, in one case, by the drawstring of an officer's windbreaker.

[Bart Noir]

Mr Ayoob, you're certainly right on both those points. I almost mentioned the XD safety, which might earn its keep just from that reholstering situation. Although I would be inclined to have a pretty good firing grip just to shove a gun into a holster, a person can use your method to grip an XD so that the grip safety is not depressed. An elegant solution, but it only applies to that one design.

What is the best way to prevent that foreign object problem, for those guns that don't have the longer and heavier DA trigger? It doesn't seem too good an idea to train to put the gun into the off hand in order to let the strong hand fish around the holster, just in case there is something in it. And I don't like the idea of putting the finger behind the trigger while the gun goes into the holster. A person under stress will eventually have a Murphy moment, where the finger is on the wrong side of the trigger. Pushing the gun into the holster then would have a loud result.

Bart Noir
A pleasure doing business with you, Mr Ayoob.

[jlbraun]

Mr. Ayoob,

I read about this technique when reading your book "A Complete Book of Sig-Sauer Pistols". Thanks for writing such a useful reference.