AR Mags


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bratch
February 26, 2007, 09:52 PM
I'll be purchasing a few more AR mags and was looking at C Products. I am a little overwhelmed with all of the options. Can I get a run down on the finishes, springs, and followers? What combination represents the best reliability?

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rino451
February 26, 2007, 10:27 PM
Just be careful. The last batch of C-Products mags weren't that great. I have a bunch from about a year ago along with a couple from Bushmaster and D&H. They all looked about the same - nice welds and the stamping and cuts all pretty much matched and they all worked well with the Magpul followers. I bought 11 more recently in a group buy type of thing over on ARFCOM and this batch looks pretty poor. I've yet to really bang on them but they don't compare to my first batch or C-Products mags. There are threads over on AR15.com about them. I think it's just buyer beware. I'll probably skip C-Products in any volume in favor of Bushmaster or D&H until I can verify that their product improves. Also it doesn't appear to be QC considering the large volume with similar flaws/problems.

bratch
February 26, 2007, 10:36 PM
Also it doesn't appear to be QC considering the large volume with similar flaws/problems

I've been hearing this I may stick with Okay mags.

thumper723
February 26, 2007, 10:37 PM
I have 4 mags coming in later this week from them. I will let you know how they are.

Logan5
February 26, 2007, 10:38 PM
AR15.com's enormous magazine FAQ is always a fun place to start.

http://magfaq.tripod.com/

cheygriz
February 26, 2007, 11:54 PM
Stick with GI surplus for good mags at reasonable prices. Of course Colt, Bushmaster, etc are good magazines, but they're pricey!

Gary G23
February 27, 2007, 06:32 AM
I'm not buying any more CP mags. Too many issues with them lately.

But to answer your question:

Finish type is a matter of personal preference. I would go with the gray teflon.

The chrome silicon springs will last longer but the stainless steel springs are maintenance free. I always get the stainless springs myself. I have so many mags it's a lot easier to replace a stainless spring every 500 cycles than it is to take apart the mags with the CS springs and oil them every month.

I always get the Magpul followers. Gray or orange is just a personal preference.

At this stage of the game I would either get Okay/NHMTG mags or wait a week and get the new Magpul PMAGs. The only downside of the Okay mags is that you don't have any options on finish and they don't come with the Magpul followers but the upside is they always work.

MechAg94
February 27, 2007, 04:16 PM
cheygriz, I have asked more times on this site than I can count: What the hell is GI SURPLUS with regard to AR mags? :) Who makes them? Who sells them? Where are they? I have never seen one that I remember. I think the Army buys from a number of difference manufacturers, but I don't know for sure.

threefeathers
February 27, 2007, 04:25 PM
I just got my CProducts order and I really like the new gray teflon. I'll order 5 more SS in black mar-lube and 10 new gray alum. I replace all my green followers in all my mags with magpul orange. CProducts could have been gouging us for the past 3 months and didn't. I appreciate that and although I order good deals from EE on AR15.com I'll give Larry an apprecible amunt of my business.

blackhawk2000
February 27, 2007, 04:39 PM
I personally would only buy Cproducts IF, and only IF Cproducts was offering to pay for my return shipping, if I needed replacement mags. At this time they are having too many problems for my tastes. Factor in return shipping costs, and your mag deal isn't a deal anymore.

10-Ring
February 27, 2007, 09:41 PM
I have had really good luck w/ the C Products mags...I currently have a mix of 20 & 30 rounders that have been reliable so far.

Frog48
February 27, 2007, 11:12 PM
What the hell is GI SURPLUS with regard to AR mags? Who makes them? Who sells them? Where are they? I have never seen one that I remember. I think the Army buys from a number of difference manufacturers, but I don't know for sure.

Government contract manufacture mags are the way to go. You're right, several manufacturers hold contracts to make them. Generally, the contracted firms are free to produce in excess of what the government contract stipulates, and sell the excess to the general public with the same markings. The advantage to these government surplus mags is very high consistency.

I bought a bunch of these:

www.cheaperthandirt.com/MAG065-1537-1885.html

The picture on CTD's website isnt right, however the description is accurate. The bottom of the mags are stamped "Defense Solutions Group, Inc. Fort Worth, TX." They are a new DoD contractor, here's their website: www.DSGinc.com

I've had absolutely no malfunctions while using them. I'm very pleased, and will definitely order more.

MechAg94
February 27, 2007, 11:51 PM
Thanks Grant.

GunNut
February 28, 2007, 12:02 AM
I've never tried any of the Cproduct mags, but right now i'm waiting to get some of the Magpul Pmags.:D

Lone_Gunman
February 28, 2007, 12:05 AM
Brownells mags are very good too.

nico
February 28, 2007, 12:42 AM
Not to hijack the thread, but is there any functional difference between straight and curved 20 round mags, or is it just a cosmetic difference? I understand that the springs and followers are different, but, based on what I've read, there's no need for "upgraded" followers, like there is with curved mags. Can anyone share some firsthand experience with either type? If straight mags worked fine (which seems to be the case), why did they come out with curved ones?

Glockfan.45
February 28, 2007, 01:26 AM
If straight mags worked fine (which seems to be the case), why did they come out with curved ones?

The curved 20 round mags exist so they can use the same green follower as the 30 round mags. It is a cost cutting measure and nothing more. I like the old straight 20 rounders to be honest. They just seem to lock into place better and quicker.

Brownells mags are very good too.

Yes they are. I just bought 6 of their 30 round mags and may buy a few more later.

Trempel
February 28, 2007, 12:43 PM
Brownells mags are very good too.
Ahem, I believe that Brownells mags are just marked up C-products mags with a different floorplate. :) I think that C-P also makes re-stamped mags for Midwayusa and maybe others.
I bought 11 more recently in a group buy type of thing over on ARFCOM and this batch looks pretty poor. I've yet to really bang on them but they don't compare to my first batch or C-Products mags.
Rino451, what kind of issues have you had with that latest batch of mags? Was your first batch of mags teflon or marlube coated and the ones you got in the group buy, are they moly coated? If they're really messed up, and the bodies are out of spec, they don't run, etc., then give C-products a call. I believe they replace defective mags, no questions asked. If you could post some pictures, I'd like to see the defects.

FWIW, I haven't had any issues with their mags. I have a few stainless steel ones with marlube and magpul followers as well as the regular aluminum, with green followers and moly coating. Moly coating does look like crap after you use the mags, but that's how it is on all my other moly coated mags. They still run every time. Teflon coating doesn't rub off and looks great, but those cost more money.

blackhawk2000
February 28, 2007, 04:13 PM
Cporducts no longer makes Brownells mags. Supposedly they are built in house by Brownell.

Glockfan.45
February 28, 2007, 04:49 PM
Cporducts no longer makes Brownells mags. Supposedly they are built in house by Brownell.

That is correct.

Trempel
February 28, 2007, 05:12 PM
I stand corrected then. When did brownells start rolling their own? I remember that as late as the middle of last year their mags were made by CP.

Inner Monkey
February 28, 2007, 05:14 PM
I have 12 CP magazines & all in all I do not think they were worth the wait. From now on I will purchase D&H magazines & install MagPul followers myself. The cost is almost the same more or less. I am suiting on about 80 magazines now & have 20 more D&H magazines on order. Once I have 100 I am stopping. That should get me & my kids through the next ban if there is one.

rino451
February 28, 2007, 05:59 PM
Rino451, what kind of issues have you had with that latest batch of mags? Was your first batch of mags teflon or marlube coated and the ones you got in the group buy, are they moly coated? If they're really messed up, and the bodies are out of spec, they don't run, etc., then give C-products a call. I believe they replace defective mags, no questions asked. If you could post some pictures, I'd like to see the defects.


My old CP mags are great and almost indestinguishable from my Bushmaster and D&H mags. The group buy CP mags are atrocious. The welds are for crap as are the cutouts in the front and rear on the top of the mag. The two halves of the mags don't line up well either. My mags are matte grey with I think green followers - no teflon, no black and I'm not worried about the marks in the finish anyway. Mine look just like the CP mags pictured in this post:

http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=313491

I'll post again after I run a few through a carbine course this weekend to see whether they'll work ok. If they do, no harm/no foul - function before fashion for all I care. However, with the geometry off as bad as it appears, I'm doubtful that they'll all work ok. I'm glad I only spent just over $100 on them as I can write that off and wait on mags or bodies from somewhere else.

I'm sticking with D&H, Buhmaster, and maybe Brownell's and the PMAG unless I have a similar experience with any of them.

ETA If they don't work I'll call Larry, but I already marked them so I didn't confuse them for the older CP mags and so I could distinguish between the ones that work and those that don't.

RTFM
February 28, 2007, 06:09 PM
Best resource is ar15.com

Here is the base link to the Magazine area:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=17

Here is the run down on manufactures.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=163158

30-Round Mags

1st Tier

1. HK SA-80 mags (new, expensive, and currently restricted to LEOs)

2. Factory teflon-finished USGI-type mags made by La Belle/General Stamping/D&H for a number of OEMs, such as Bushmaster, DPMS, Armalite, Rocky Mountain Arms, Tapco, Shomer Tec, and others, including several current AR15.com vendors.

3. USGI aluminum mags (with Mil-Spec molybdenum dry-film lubricant "finish")

Brands:
- Universal Industries/Okay Industries/Colt/NHMTG (same company)
- Adventureline/Parsons/Center Industries (same company)
- La Belle/General Stamping/D&H (same company)
- Sanchez
- FN
- Cooper (some are fine, but many Coopers are out-of-spec and should be avoided)

4. FN FNC mags (steel)

5. Sterling AR180 mags (these are combo AR15/AR18/AR180 mags in 20, 30, and 40-round capacity)

6. British steel SA-80 mags
- Imperial Defense
- Royal Ordnance
- Radway Green (plastic floorplate)


7. FedOrd/PMI steel aftermarket mags

-------------------------------------

2nd Tier

8. Thermolds (USA made)

9. Thermolds (Canadian-made)

10. Orlites

-------------------------------------

Don't Waste Your Money

99. All of the other aftermarket crap mags, including USA, Triple K, Western Metal, Victor, Millet, ProMag, RamLine, and Eagle.





40-round mags:

- Sterling of England: These are "combo" mags made for the AR15 and AR18/AR180, so they have both types of mag catch slots. Floorplates are marked "Sterling England". These are the best 40s available, and no coincidence, they are the rarest and most expensive at $150 or so each, if you can find one. These will be private sales.

- PMI/Fed Ord: These mags were originally marketed under the Federal Ordnance name, and later under PMI. A small step below the Sterling mags, but still very good. Expect to pay $50 or more for a like-new mag. These are a bit more common, but still hard to find. While there may be rare exceptions, these will likely also be private sales. Most vendors ran out of these in '98 or early '99 at the latest.


- Everything else (USA/Triple K/Western Metal/Millet) - crap that isn't worth wasting any money on. If a vendor has 40s, they will have these.


-Troy


here is a link to followers.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=103570

http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20424

The original plastic follower design has a long center post, designed to prevent spring over-compression, and a short anti-tilt leg in the rear. It does not have any anti-tilt leg in the front, which means that the rear of the follower can tilt down and fail to push the rounds up to the feed lips. This results in both bullet-feed misalignments (jams) and in "bolt-over-bullet" fails to feed. The latter is especially common on the last couple of rounds in the mag, when spring pressure on the follower is the lowest. This happens whether or not mags are loaded to capacity or underloaded, and is completely independant of the ammo type used. It is simply a result of poor follower design.

This problem had been an issue with the 30-round mags ever since they had been adopted. In the mid-80s, it was noticed that the problem seemed to happen more frequently with Sanchez-brand magazines, and so an investigation was started to try to determine the cause. It was assumed that the investigation would determine that Sanchez mags were not in-spec. This turned out not to be the case, and the final recommendation was to correct the design of the follower. Thus, new followers with a front anti-tilt leg were created, which used green plastic to make them easy to identify, and were shipped with new Sanchez mags starting in 1988 for field trials. The trial ran through 1990, and proved to be successful at eliminating the feed problems associated with the original followers, resulting in formal adoption of the new design in 1991. All USGI-contract 30-round AR mags were required to have the anti-tilt followers as of late '91. Existing black-follower mags were not upgraded.

...

You have to decide for yourself how reliable you expect your mags to be. While millions of BF mags exist and have been used, there have been lots of feed problems that are directly attributable to the design of the BFs. GFs are known to significantly reduce or eliminate these problems. Upgrading costs $1.00-1.50 per mag, depending on quanity. Is it worth it? That's a question only you can answer for yourself.

All of my USGI 30s have GFs.

-Troy



The info is out there.

A BIG Thank has to go to Troy at AR15.com for all his work. He is a well of great information associated with the evil black gun.


RTFM

jthuang
February 28, 2007, 06:12 PM
I have 10 of the curved 20rd mags from CProducts (from a while back) and they work great.

That said, I am part of the ARFCOM group buy (in for about 17 mags) but I have not received my mags yet.

Personally if the CP mags are subpar I will not buy from them in the future. I have also had issues with certain recent D&H mags so I will not buy those either.

I am thinking sticking with NHMTG or Center mags from here on out. I got a pack of ten Center mags from Talon Arms and they have been great. My first mags for my Bushmaster (during the ban) were four beat-up Center mags and they have worked great since 1997.

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