RRA 308 Varmit or SA M1A Loaded or SA M1A Scout Squad


PDA






deolexrex
February 26, 2007, 11:10 PM
I'm trying to finalize my decision on a "do almost everything" rifle. I want a semi-auto 308 with 1 MOA capabilities. This will probably be my only center-fire rifle for target shooting, hunting, SHTF/EOTWAWKI.

I'm looking for thoughts and opinions on the three rifles listed above (reliability, accuracy, etc. etc.) or any I may be missing (FAL?) I'm looking to spend about $1,500. Thanks.

If you enjoyed reading about "RRA 308 Varmit or SA M1A Loaded or SA M1A Scout Squad" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
byf43
February 26, 2007, 11:28 PM
My vote goes to the M1A. Either the 'Loaded' or the 'Scout/Squad'.

Why? IMO, they are better rifles.

funfaler
February 26, 2007, 11:56 PM
My suggestion is get the Standard M1a, and shoot it a bunch to see if it works for you, if you don't like it, it will retain it's value and you can resell it.

The FAL is a fine rifle, but the M1a is better out of the box, in accuracy and function.

Get it by March 31 and come on down to the Appleseed Shoot in Carrollton Kentucky and work it a bit, good time! http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=1385.0

g5reality
February 27, 2007, 12:01 AM
I vote for a loaded M1A. The scout won't meet your needs for distance when hunting. I bought a Remington 700 CDL in 30-06 for hunting, The M1A is heavy to carry around all day on a hunt.

cheygriz
February 27, 2007, 12:47 AM
RRA. It's lighter, more accurate and more durable than the M1A.

Gator
February 27, 2007, 01:01 AM
If you want 1 MOA, there is no choice. RRA promises 1MOA from the Varmint, you would need to get a SA NM M1A to equal that, and forget about it with the Scout Squad or an FAL. Now having said that, I'll stick with my M1As and FALs. I prefer reliability, durability, and ease of maintenance over extreme accuracy. I don't need 1 MOA except for varmint hunting....and I don't varmint hunt :)

MaceWindu
February 27, 2007, 01:21 AM
...and more durable than the M1A.

...not...

Nightcrawler
February 27, 2007, 01:25 AM
Is the RRA .308 even out yet? They're basically the .308s that Bushmaster dropped. Couldn't get 'em to work with FAL magazines, and for a simple reason. The FAL doesn't have a lugged bolt and the magazines weren't designed for such.

Wonder if RRA got the bugs out of it or not. Honestly, I haven't heard much good about .308 ARs in terms of reliability. Even the super expensive ones, like the KAC SR-25, seem to be loved or hated.

10-Ring
February 27, 2007, 01:26 AM
I like the portability of the scout but really for the way I shoot, the std M1a is the finest 308 platform out their today!

deolexrex
February 27, 2007, 07:45 AM
So, what I hear you saying is... "of the three rifles listed get the M1A loaded 'cuz it is more reliable and don't worry about the Moa 'cuz I can't shoot that well anyway!" Is that about right?

Gator
February 27, 2007, 09:18 AM
....'cuz I can't shoot that well anyway!"

Uh, no.

JWarren
February 27, 2007, 09:43 AM
A semi-auto with 1 MOA capability may be hard to find. I'm no expert on the M1A, or some others, but most of the owners I've read on here say they get larger groupings than 1 MOA.

This starts me to thinking...

I've hunted with an HK91 that was very accurate-- but I had a scope on it.
My converted Saiga 308 AK is doing 1 MOA -- but I have a scope on it.
I had a FAL that was fairly accurate-- but I had a scope on it.

Notice a pattern? Sometimes I think we have to make distictions between groups attained using iron sights verses groups attained using optics.

I'd think that practically ANY rifle will tighten its groups using good quality optics and a sturdy mount. Obviously, some rifle designs will be more accurate than others due to the mechanics of operation, but optics take a few variables out of the mix such as quality of the iron sights. I doubt I could do near as well grouping without optics on the rifles I mentioned.


For me anyway, I have the best of both worlds. By the design of my side-rail scope mount, I am able to remove the optics from the rifle and reattach them without losing zero. I can't imagine a scenerio where I WOULD leave my glass behind on this particular rifle, but I could if I choose.


I'm sure that almost any semi-auto 308 COULD satisfy your needs. I've seen good groups from M1As, FALs, HK's, Saigas, PTR-91s, etc. I can't say on some rifles like the CETME, or Century FALs. I had a Century FAL, but didn't get to play with it enough to know... and really its hit or miss when the angry beavers get involved.


John

funfaler
February 27, 2007, 11:02 AM
"So, what I hear you saying is... "of the three rifles listed get the M1A loaded 'cuz it is more reliable and don't worry about the Moa 'cuz I can't shoot that well anyway!" Is that about right?"

Can you?

When you ref a SHTF rifle, I suspect that you are not thinking about taking your bench rest, super match ammo, and 12-16 power scope with you to any SHTF situation, setting up and squeezing off a couple of rounds from a cold barrel. Now I could be wrong.

I suspect in a SHTF situation will entail you putting multiple shots on multiple targets out to between 100-600 yards, maybe with iron sights, surplus ammo, at a rate of 20-30 rounds per minute. Having a required accuracy of @3-4 MOA, of the total package (rifle, ammo, shooter). And require a rifle that is easily maintained and operated. Thus my recommendation for the M1a Standard, it will do this and more.

My recommendation of going to an Appleseed, I recommend that to everyone. It gives you a chance to wring out your rifle/shooter interface. Test your skills for putting lead on target out to 500 yards, in field positions (with just a sling, no bench or bipod) and stresses doing it with iron sights. Now if you are a crack shot, can shoot from field positions at 1 MOA with any rifle, you can shoot free and teach some others how it is done, we need more skilled riflemen in this country.

Now if your desire for a rifle is bench shooting, then the M1a Standard will probablly not please you as much.

deolexrex
February 27, 2007, 11:19 AM
I have no desire to shoot benchrest style...no offense to those who do. I don't think at this point I have the ability to shoot MOA with a centerfire just because I don't have that much experience. I have shot rimfire all my life and do ok but as I said, no real experience with the centerfire.

When I mentioned target shooting I should have been clearer by saying "plinking". I have spent many a day shooting with my five sons.

The M1A seems to be the clear choice at this point but why the preference to the Standard over the Loaded? Is the Loaded not worth the extra hundred bucks?

funfaler
February 27, 2007, 11:47 AM
Of the improvements that the "Loaded" version has over the "Standard" the only one that I think is worth the $$ is the National Match front sight. If your "Standard" doesn't come with one (many do), you can add it for @$20-25, so you will save the $$. The other "national match" goodies on the rifle are ok, but not worth the extra $$, IMHO.

If you decide that your "Standard" is not accurate enough for your activities, then you can add the "Match" items that you want. You should be able to shoot @3moa or better with a "Standard", that is 3 moa for the total package, you, rifle,ammo, from field positions. That will allow you to put lead on a 20" wide target out to 600 yards. Beyond that range, your skill will have to be very good in the range and wind estimation and correction, as those factors will have the greatest effect on bullet path than others.

Allow me to recommend the Appleseed program again, fabulous way to get/hone your rifle skills and work out "kinks" in your shooting. Kids under 21 shoot FREE as do Active Military. There is one coming to Bloomington June 2-3, and Evensville IN, June 30-July 1. Here is the whole schedule http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=1385.0

If you get an M1a, I highly suggest that you contact 44mag http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CM20 and get some extra mags, he has good prices and great service.

Good luck

deolexrex
February 27, 2007, 12:21 PM
Unless I'm misunderstanding the Loaded has a better barrel, NM front and rear sights and a better trigger. Sounds like a good deal for a hundred bucks.

cheygriz
February 27, 2007, 03:59 PM
My DPMS LR308 AP4 is dead accurate, utterly reliable, FAR LIGHTER, and a helluva lot easier to shoot than an M1A. I had a standard M1A a few years ago, and it was a nice, sturdy rifle. But heavy as a tank, and not very accurate.

When the .308 bug bit me again, I looked at all of them, and talked to folks that shoot them a lot, and the DPMS was a no-brainer.:D

There's nothing wrong with the M1A, (or the M1 Garand, for that matter) but the AR type designs are just "state of the art" superior.

funfaler
February 27, 2007, 07:39 PM
The only benefit to the NM rear sights on the "Loaded" version is that the windage is 1/2 moa per click vs. 1 moa per click on the Standard. The elevation is still 1 moa per click, because it is an un-hooded rear sight.

The barrel, is a National Match barrel, which may net your some improvement for the moa, but unless you are bench shooting, Match ammo, you will not notice the difference, and you run the risk of the chamber being finicky with surplus or cheaper ammo.

The trigger is a National match trigger, but it is an after market, Springfield cast trigger group. You will more than likely be better off getting an USGI trigger group to replace it anyway, and keep the Springfield for a spare, no sense in spending the extra $$ for the spare. The difference between the NM and Standard trigger is @4.5 lbs of pull vs. 5-5.5 lbs of pull, hardly noticeable. You will get a much better trigger by buying USGI both in quality and pull.

The above statement is about the same for the NM flashider, it is Springfield cast vs. USGI forged. You can get a neutered (no bayonet lug) USGI flashider for @50-70, if you shop around. But I doubt that you will need to.

You will not be able to tell the difference between the Loaded and Standard under normal shooting conditions, so to get the Loaded, is IMHO, to put extra $$ toward no more satisfaction. That being said, if you really want the Loaded, no one that I know would call you a fool, it is a very fine rifle and you will enjoy sending lead down range with it.

Remember that the Standard is probably @ 90% as accurate as the National match, so the real factor in accuracy will be the nut behind the butt plate;) If you get the Standard and find it to be less accurate than you want, you can sell it for what you paid for it, if you get a good deal, and buy the Loaded or National Match as you desire.

Good luck

Nomad, 2nd
February 27, 2007, 08:08 PM
I can't help you on the first, but on the M1A's I've shot the NM and everything 'Below' (22" 18" 16")

And I have picked the Scout as MY do everything rifle.

I put a smith enterprise flash supressor on it (For some reason the Factory one SUX) and a rail for a Surefire. After that, whatever you want on GG&G throw levers and your good...

It's less than 1/2 a pound more than an M16, but it pushes the .308


http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CM20B
For mags

Snipe315
February 28, 2007, 11:54 PM
While I have and love the M1A series, I suggest the RRA.

If yoy truly want an accurate, "do everything" type of rifle, there is NO BETTER choice than the AR family.

You can buy an upper receiver with a 20" barrel for long range work, and then switch it out in seconds with a 16" for HD or hog hunting, or whatever.

;)

Only the AR series gives you this kind of flexibility.

If you enjoyed reading about "RRA 308 Varmit or SA M1A Loaded or SA M1A Scout Squad" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!