[HIPOWER]

For CCW which would you pick and why?
Which is more durable in the long run?
And, which would be more accurate?
Thanks.

[denfoote]

Pistolet Makarova!!! :cool:

Why???

(1) The 9mm Makarov is a higher powered cartridge to begin with. To get the same ballistics in 9mm kurz, you have to go with the so-called .380 +P, which I do not think the Bersa recommends!!

(2) With a simple barrel change, the Makarov can fire both cartridges!!

(3) Pistolet Makarova is a battle proven weapon that is still issued, to the best of my knowlege, in the People's Republic of China in the form of the Type 59. It's a good weapon, I have one!! :evil:

(4) Defensive ammunition is readly available and is loaded by both Hornady and Federal.

(5) Practice ammo can be had for right around $100/case from Cheaper Than Dirt, among others.

(6) Pistolet Makarova in it's stock configuration is not supposed to be a 25 yard weapon, but it is!! How's 3" groups with a (supposed) 1961 Stazi issue gun!!

(7) Quality concealment holsters are available from FIST (http://www.fist-inc.com) and Dillion Precision (http://www.dillonprecision.com) .

Heck, just about everybody makes holsters for the Mak now!! :D

These are but seven reasons why Pistolet Makarova beats the heck out of the Bersa any day of the week, 24/7!!!! :neener:

[gbelleh]

I have both a Bersa .380 and a Makarov in 9X18. They are both great guns.

IMO, the Makarov would probably stand up to more long-term use in the long run, but the Bersa should serve you well for many many rounds too.

IMO, the Bersa would be a little bit easier to carry concealed, and my Bersa has a better DA trigger than my Makarov. The Bersa has better sights too.

Mine are both very accurate for their size and have very manageable recoil.

If you're looking between these two, the 9x18 Makarov as opposed to the .380 would provide a slightly more powerful round.

In my opinion, either one would be a good choice with the very slight edge going to the 9x18 Makarov. If both are in .380, the very slight edge would go to the Bersa because of the lighter weight and better trigger and sights.

[Greybeard]

While I do not own a Bersa, two Russian Maks have served various training functions well for me. Very reliable. Accuracy not bad - but the sights on my Maks are somewhat less than desirable for CCW. Ditto if quick mag change needed. If you are not already aware of it, lots of info./accessories available at www.makarov.com.

There are quite a few Bersa owners around who will likely chime in shortly. In fact, I believe Mr. Steve Camp has a fresh "range report" forthcoming on the Bersa .380.

[David4516]

The Makarov of course! But be for-warned, once you go Mak you don't go back...

My CCW is a Bulgie Makarov. I want my carry gun to be as reliable as possible, since my life may depend on it. It must go bang when I need it most. This is the main reason I carry a Mak, IMHO it is THE MOST dependable compact sized auto-loader out there. My Mak has never jamed or had any failures of any kind.

The Makarov has another advantage: caliber. The 9mm Makarov (9X18 ) round is more powerful than .380 ACP. It's no 9mm luger, but it does have the edge where power is concerned.

And the real cool think about the Mak is the price tag: $150. Guns of similar quaility cost 3 times that, and still arn't as dependable...

[makdaddy03]

Makarov.;)

[38snapcaps]

I've had both and have carried both. One is gone and one is still by my side. Let's play a game and see if you can figure out which became a keeper:

Excellent sights, or tiny almost impossible to see sights.

Clumsy heel mag release, or efficient button release.

Heavy, drag your pants down weight, or light comfortable weight.

Too big for a coat pocket, or drops right in.

Hand stinging recoil, hurts after two mags, or easy to shoot two boxes in a row with.

Inexpensive ammo, or inexpensive ammo.

Easy to field strip, or easier to field strip.

Old metal, one color, or new metal with choices of finishes.

Pretty good accuracy, or VERY good accuracy.

Total reliability, or total reliability.

Tiny, hard to operate slide stop, or very nice modern slide stop.

Heavy trigger pull in double action, or smooth and light trigger.

Have you figure it out guys? I'll give you a hint-One has seven letters, one has five.

[Pilot]

Makarov and here's why:

More powerful 9x18 caliber, or you can still get a used Russian one in .380 or re-barrel to .380, but why?

9x18 ammo is cheaper to buy, so you will practice more.

All steel, proven combat service pistol. Its heavier because its better. The weight does not bother me for CCW as its a pretty compact pistol, bu YMMV.

Positive mag release. You will not drop a mag by accident with this design. Fast reloads as your hand can pull the mag out in one motion after release.

100% reliable and very accurate for this size pistol.

Why do you need big target sights for a small CCW pistol? Point and shoot.

Mak is less expensive to purchase than the Bersa with less expensive and more plentiful magazines available.

Mak after market grips are plentiful and inexpensive. Put a Pearce or Makwrap grip on and blast away.

Chromed lined barrel for longevity.


Need any more? I'm sure I can think of some.

That being said, I'm getting my wife a Beretta Cheetah Mod. 85 in .380 as she does not like the Mak due to its weight, so go figure. I think the Bersa .380 would also be an excellent choice for her. If I could find one for her to shoot, I may save a few hundred $$$.

[jc2]

Let's be realistic guys, that's not enough difference power-wise (or in effectiveness) between 9mmK and 9x18 about which to even begin to get excited. That is one issue that is a wash!

[Pilot]

Jc2 wrote:

"Let's be realistic guys, that's not enough difference power-wise (or in effectiveness) between 9mmK and 9x18 about which to even begin to get excited. That is one issue that is a wash!"


Maybe, but another 100 - 200 FPS can't hurt either. I'll take the 9MM Mak over .380 anyday.

[swingcatt]

Jc2 wrote:

"Let's be realistic guys, that's not enough difference power-wise (or in effectiveness) between 9mmK and 9x18 about which to even begin to get excited. That is one issue that is a wash!"

Pilot wrote:

"Maybe, but another 100 - 200 FPS can't hurt either. I'll take the 9MM Mak over .380 anyday."

Don't forget about another .01" in diameter too!... OK, maybe we're splitting hairs here. (literaly!) :D

.380ACP/9mmK=.355"
9x18=.364"

Seriously, my recomendations are , if you want reliability and ruggedness, go with the Makarova, you won't be disapointed. It's had a lot more time to be tested in all types of field conditions than the Bersa. If you want something that looks better (I have nothing wrong with the looks of a Mak, but some do) and is a bit more flashy, go with the Bersa. I know two people who own them and they seem very happy with them.

SC

[mainmech48]

I don't own a Bersa, but I have a couple of Makarovs. I bought the first one out of curiousity, as the price was right ($115 w/accessories) and ammo supply was no longer "iffy". I wasn't expecting much.

As it came from the box, the DA trigger wasn't impressive. SA was pretty decent at a tad over 5#, minimal creep but a good deal of overtravel. The stock sights were miniscule and shiney. Materials and workmanship were surprisingly good, for the money.

Once I started shooting it, it became evident that there was some tantalizing potential in there. Even with those ridiculous sights and marginal trigger I was getting 20 yd groups from a rest in the 3 1/2" range with three different brands of cheap ball ammo when I could get my sight picture and break right. It was challenging, but happened often enough to pique my curiousity even more: What could it do if....?

After 500 rnds, I found Makarov.com and did some careful polishing on the recommended areas of the action parts. Detailed drawings and instructions made it much easier, and there was enough wear after that much use to show me exactly where the contact surfaces were. It did take some time, as I did it in several stages to avoid FUBAR.

With the polishing and proper lube, the improvement in the action was dramatic. I'm sure that another couple of thousand rds would've done essentially the same thing, but if I didn't like to tinker being a gun crank wouldn't be near as much fun. Who among us doesn't have some sort of "project" in the works?

The action work improved my ability to hit with it enough for me to rationalize new sights. While I could've installed them myself, the cost of tools (dovetail milling cutters) and the possibility of job loss from bringing a "weapon" into my workplace (even on my own time) made that unfeasible. They fired a woman off the production floor for having a can of pepper spray in her purse, fer Chrissake!

It could've been done with a hacksaw and files, with extreme care, but who wants to spend a week of spare time on a 2 hr job? Back to Makarov.com.

A set of XS "standard dot" fixed sights was $120 installed, including return shipping. Novaks were also and option in the same price range, but I wanted the faster acquisition that the XS setup gave me on my Para C7.45.

"Value" is relative. What did I end up with for my time and $265?

A CCW pistol that, while perhaps a bit large for its relative power, carries discretely and comfortably, is extremely quick in presentation and target acquisition, has recoil that's easily managable by even novice shooters, is 100% reliable and will put eight rounds of Hornady HPs into 3" at 15 yds as fast as I can pull the trigger.

Of course, I don't get to use it much. When my wife found out how much better she could shoot and operate it than her 3913, it became hers. Personally, I can't see that much difference in recoil or effort to rack the slide and am more comfortable with the 9x19's extra "oomph". But for some reason she can get multiple hits faster and more accurately with the Mak. Confidence counts, and she practices more now that she's getting more positive feedback for her efforts.

And I get the 3913. Not bad for $265!

[Jedi_7.62]

MAK.....

I like a weapon I can beat the crap out of and have it begging for more...

NOTE.......I don't recomend abusing weapons but I like one that can take it:D :D :D

It is a little heavy for concealed carry but I haven't found anything yet I feel comfortable replacing it with.

After all this is the weapon that is most likely to save your life...
Make sure it works well....

[BowStreetRunner]

I just got an almost new Mak from Southern Ohio Guns for 130 plus transfer fee plus shipping
great looking gun, ate up the first 100 rounds without a hich
hopefully i can take it out again tomorrow
i dont mind buying my ammo online.....you can find good deals and Makarov.com is a great resource for Mak stuff
i dont think there is a Bersa.com ;)
that being said
i have heard a lot of great things from people who have bersas and like them....and if you want to be able to go to any gun store or sporting goods gun dept and pick up some ammo then the bersa would be better
handle them both and then decide!
BSR

[Guyon]

Go Mak. You'll never look back.

[David4516]

"Let's be realistic guys, that's not enough difference power-wise (or in effectiveness) between 9mmK and 9x18 about which to even begin to get excited."

It's not a HUGE difference, but I think it is enough to take into consideration. If you reload you can make Mak ammo even hotter...

[chaim]

I have shot a Mak and I own a Bersa. For CCW I think the Bersa is better and here is why:

-More ammo choices. This is important, especially with self defense ammo. Also, if you didn't plan far enough ahead (or don't want to or can't order online) you will be more likely to find ammo locally. Both can be effective defensively but the greater number of choices in defensive ammo for .380 put it ahead for me.

-The Bersa is incredibly accurate. So is the Mak, but the Bersa has much easier to use sights for a much faster sight acquisition (very important for a defensive handgun).

-The Bersa is a much better size and weight for carry. The .380 or 9Mak calibers are pretty much a minimum powered cartridge and if I'm going to go this weak (relatively, I do think both can be quite capable) I want something in return. The Mak is as heavy and large as many 9mm choices (and in this price range you can find some used). The Bersa can comfortably sit in your front pocket and it would disappear in an IWB.

-Both are 100% reliable. The Mak has such a reputation, the Bersa does too and mine has had zero FTF, FTE, etc.

Mine has a good trigger, great accuracy and great reliability. I would trust my life to it and in return it is a little nicer, lighter and smaller than the Mak.

[B Coyote]

There has been so much said here in favor of the Makarov...I can't add to it.

Buy one, you won't regret it. I carried a Russian Commercial for almost a year before I could afford a "better pistol"....and the "better pistol" didn't do anything the Mak didn't do already.

bc:)

[David4516]

"I carried a Russian Commercial for almost a year before I could afford a "better pistol"....and the "better pistol" didn't do anything the Mak didn't do already."

At first I intended to just carry my Mak untill I could get a 'better pistol', but after I took the mak target shooting a time or two I realized that I didn't really need a "better pistol". I no longer have any plans to replace it. I've even been considering buying a second Makarov...