[davidd]

Any of you carry pepper spray instead of a gun? Thinking about true self defense, it would seem the very last resort would be to shoot. You would always try to get yourself out of a bad situation, but in cases where you can't and you are feeling threatened, the threat is likely within a few feet. Pepper spray would disable the threat, so why no choose that over a gun?

[jsebens]

I'll tell you this. I got hosed with pepper spray at the beginning of my deployment, and then ran a course with several stations where I demonstrated various hand-to-hand and baton techniques. The pepper spray didn't hit me until halfway through, and it didn't interfere with my functioning until about 30 seconds after I finished.

When it hit me, I wanted them to cut off my face to make it stop.

Long story short...pepper spray works (on most people), but not right away. If I was mugging you and you sprayed me, I could still mess you up pretty bad (possibly to the point of death) before I was incapacitated.

My wife carries it, but only because she spends her entire day on campus, and therefore can't carry a gun.

[CajunBass]

That's sort of like asking which is better, a hammer or a saw.

Different tools for different jobs.

[M2 Carbine]

Like the old saying, Don't bring a knife (or pepper spray) to a gun fight.

No, I wouldn't consider carrying pepper spray instead of a gun.

Using half way defense measures against a real threat is likely to get you hurt or killed, unless you are far more experienced in personal defense that the majority of us.

[jsebens]

Besides which, most of the soldiers who went through the pepper spray course with me agreed...if someone sprayed me with pepper spray, I'd shoot them. Because in about 3-5 minutes, I really would be incapacitated, and I don't want them avoiding me (or taking a beating) for 3-5 minutes, then knifing me while I roll around on the ground in agony.

So...if you turn that around, a criminal who gets sprayed will likely get very angry, and very violent.

I just thought of something...my mother used to carry a personal alarm...pull the pin, and everyone around gets their eardrums assaulted. Far likelier to gain you public support than yelling "Help" in certain neighborhoods.

[Ala Dan]

I'm old school; and with MY friend M2 Carbine on this one~!

There is NO need of me carrying pepper spray, Freeze +P or any of that
other stuff on the market; cuz I am always armed, and always expect the
unexpected~! ;) :D

[M2 Carbine]

jsebens
Far likelier to gain you public support than yelling "Help" in certain neighborhoods.

Yelling "Fire" will gain a lot of attention, even in the kind of neighborhood where they wouldn't help their own mothers.


I'm a helocopter pilot.

If necessary to yell a warning I figure I'll yell, "Stop, Police".

I think it will gain more attention than yelling, "Stop, helicopter pilot".:D

[GunNut]

The only time pepper spray is carried is when I am going someplace with metal detectors, otherwise a gun is always a better choice.

[Nomad, 2nd]

I carry both.

Sometimes you JJJJUST cannot shoot someone, but need to take them down.

Ask an old cop... as soon as someone starts 'setting themselves up' to fight...
They hit them with the spray.

[GRIZ22]

I usually carry both. Each has a different use. I was a firearms/tactics instructor for a federal agency until I retired about 1 1/2 years ago. I would remind agents that the pepper spray is for use if the BG is tyring to go hand to hand. If he's armed (knife, 2x4, baseball bat or gun) you use your pistol.

[nwilliams]

carry both!

If you pepper spray an attacker and that doesn't stop them then you have helped justfy your use of deadly force. It looks a lot more convincing when you go to court to say "I pepper sprayed him first, but he didn't stop....."

Of course it depends on how severe the attack is, you have to use your own judgment based on the given situation.

Why use deadly force when you have the option to use non-deadly first? I carry one of those pepper spray key chain attachments and a gun. Why not?

[rockstar.esq]

I use pepper to season my food,

230gr hardball for tenderizing...:neener:

Seriously, I don't want to carry around something thats just annoying. Sure you don't have to conceal pepper spray but your batman belt might imply you've got the force continum at your disposal. Personally I'd rather just avoid conflicts in the first place, and end them with a sidearm in the second.

[Mandirigma]

If necessary to yell a warning I figure I'll yell, "Stop, Police".

I think it will gain more attention than yelling, "Stop, helicopter pilot".

Funny that, at one of my CHL courses the instructor (Didn't out right condone it, but said it in a way to give an semi-legal "out")

"Stop, POLICE!"

What if its brought up in court?

He switched to his best southern drawl "Well, Suh or ma'am, now ah (I) wuz(was) jus (just) beeng (being) puhlite (polite). What ah (I) said wuz (was): STOP PUH-LEASE!"

[SuperNaut]

I inadvertently got Red Habanero oil in my eye when I used to pick produce, I have also been pepper-sprayed. Given the choice I'd take pepper spray over habanero oil any day of the week.

That freakin' oil sent me to the hospital, I'd almost rather take a bullet to the eye.

[Jeff F]

I've seen two persons get sprayed from the same can of cs. This was not oc its the old stuff you can't get anymore. Each instance was an almost instant stop, in one case jerk was going after my bro with a chain binder and got it right in the face from six or seven feet. He grabbed for his face so fast he hit himself in the head with the binder. He went down on his knees trying to breathe. Gave us plenty of time to leave and call the cops.

[10-Ring]

I have pepper spray on the strap of my messenger bag I carry everyday...much easier & w/ me always vs. carrying a firearm in CA :scrutiny:

[Grunt]

Pepper spray is a tool you can use in escelation of force but not something I would want to soley rely on. Anybody that has seen the law enforcement use of force module, first step for the officer's response to a suspects actions and the risk perceptions they present are verbal controls. Next step are the contact controls like wrist locks and hand roation techniques. Moving up the scale when the subject becomes assaultive and likely to cause bodily harm, you come to compliance techniques that inolve a little more pain to the suspect such as baton restraining techniques, nuero-muscular controls and this is also the level where your pepper spray would come into play. Moving up another notch is where you start using an ASP or PR-24 striking movements, and tasers. Finally you come to the subjects actions are presenting a lethal threat that can cause death or seriously bodily harm. It's when things get to this level that you have to consider using deadly force to terminate the subjects actions. To think of this in an example, if you are looking at getting hit by an attacker with bare hands, short of this guy being Bruce Lee or the like, you could probably use pepper spray without being accused of using excessive force. I mean, you can't just up and shoot a guy for slapping you or something and not get in deep doo-doo over it. However, lets say you do use that pepper spray, you find out that it doesn't work and now the actor is pulling out a knife or gun and coming at you. Now you've crossed that line into those actions that are lethal threat perceptions with the actor intending serious bodily harm or even killing you. Now you would be justified in dropping that pepper spray and resorting to using deadly force. If you ever get a chance to see a "use of force" module, you get a better understanding of what actions you can take in response to an attackers actions without resorting to excessive force being used when it's not warranted. So now you get an idea of how pepper spray can play a part in your overall layered defense by giving you a less-than lethal option should you need it but at the same time, I wouldn't consider it to be the end-all solution either. Carrying pepper spray in addition to a firearm is always a wise idea.

[ArchAngelCD]

Any of you carry pepper spray instead of a gun? Thinking about true self defense, it would seem the very last resort would be to shoot. You would always try to get yourself out of a bad situation, but in cases where you can't and you are feeling threatened, the threat is likely within a few feet. Pepper spray would disable the threat, so why no choose that over a gun?
Don't try and explain why you carry a gun to this guy, can't you see he is trying to bait you?

The answer to this question is, the Second Amendment guarantees me the right to bear arms, not pepper.

BTW, pepper works very well on Bears since their about 100,000% more sensitive to the stuff than we are.

[Ala Dan]

+1 for rockstar as that is a FUNNY ONE~!:D

Quote:

"I use pepper to season my food, 230 grain hardball for tenderizing".

[universal]

I sometimes carry pepper spray when I can't carry a gun. I have used it twice and it worked like a charm.

[ZeSpectre]

Pepper spray is a funny thing. Back in my LEO days (towards the end of that career) we got the OC sprays and I had to deploy it a few times. Individual reaction was amazingly diverse and you simply HAVE to assume that it won't work or you'll get caught flatfooted when you run into those people who are immune.

Case 1 - Angry dog. Spritz hit him right in the face. Dog took off like a shot.

Case 2 - Two guys assaulting one. The one guy was down and they were kicking him and wouldn't stop. I sprayed both right square in the face. One guy backed right off wheezing and sat down, the other paused then resumed kicking and only stopped when I drew my sidearm and told him I'd shoot him if he didn't stop.

Case 3 - Two BIG guys in a fistfight. Gave them a warning and when they didn't stop I put one quick spritz in between them. Both instantly backed off and started obeying my commands while crying like babies.

Case 4 - Tiny little runt of a guy acting totally psycho took a steady stream in the face for a good three seconds as I fast backpeddled down a hallway. He kept coming and another officer had to tackle him. Took FOUR of us to get him cuffed n' stuffed and broke the freakin' cuffs while we were waiting for an ambulance. (little ba$t@rd also bit the medic who was trying to treat him on the scene).

Case 5 - (didn't happen to me thank God) Seatbelt in a cruiser caught the top of an OC can and broke it such that it emptied in the cruiser. Needless to say the officer involved bailed. So now we have a cruiser parked in the garage emitting OC vapors. After several attempts to stand the fumes long enough to move the vehicle we gave up and had it towed. The tow driver also cussed us out for that one.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

You dept didn't have masks on hand I assume?

[Geno]

Similar to another recent thread. For me:

1) Taekwondo
2) Pepper "seasoning"
3) Firearm as an absolute last resort

[ZeSpectre]

You dept didn't have masks on hand I assume?

First words out of the Duty Sgt's mouth the next morning... "so nobody thought to go get a mask?"

Yup, we were pretty embarrassed about that :D
Now I just laugh 'cause it did seem pretty obvious...after the fact.

[Bezoar]

When does pepper spray work at below freezing temperatures? When will it have the same affect on a 400 pound psychotic criminal that say, a 9mm, 40 sw, or say 454 cassull?

Maybe then, and just maybe then I would consider only using seasoning spray in a keychain for defense.

[Clipper]

I'd hate to have something go down too fast (as it probably would) to get to my spray, and have some A**hole assistant prosecutor asking me why I murdered that poor choirboy when I had the means to 'safely' disable him instead? No spray means no choice...

[Black Snowman]

I carry pepper spray IN ADDITION TO a gun. Just one more tool in the kit. As for things going down too fast, they'll turn that around on you too, particularly now that you've said it in a public forum. The differance is the DA is going to say "You went out that day planning to kill because you made sure you had no alternative!" No matter what you do they're going to spin it against you. Do the right thing, and your odds get better.

There's lots of times that pepper spray can be useful above and beyond stopping a 2 legged threat. I have a buddy who likes a quick shot on his burritos.

[MCgunner]

I've carried pepper spray IN ADDITION to a gun, but never in place of it. Pepper spray is for dousing the drunk who wants to fist fight. The gun is for more serious situations.

[tanksoldier]

2 reasons:

1. If the BG is close enough for pepperspray, by the time you evaluate his reation and decide that it didn't work and switch to the gun he could be on top if you.

2. The only time you draw your gun is if your life is in danger. The BG has a knife or gun or 2x4. You don't face down lethal force with non-lethal if you can help it.

Now, my personal ROE include a fistfight as a deadly confrontation... because I carry a gun which the BG might find while we're wrestling around and use on me. So, my ROE for a fistfight is to draw and warn them off... then shoot if they continue to close. Pepperspray might work in this case, but the gun is just as good, and again of the spray doesn't work you have to switch out weapons at close quarters.

Any of you carry pepper spray instead of a gun? Thinking about true self defense, it would seem the very last resort would be to shoot. You would always try to get yourself out of a bad situation, but in cases where you can't and you are feeling threatened, the threat is likely within a few feet. Pepper spray would disable the threat, so why no choose that over a gun?

So every person who was issued a CCW permit in Colorado is looking to shoot someone? In the whole COUNTRY? Hardly anyone carries CS & a gun... even many plainclothes officers only carry an ASP and a gun. Are cops looking to shoot or beat someone to death because they don't have the CS?

The differance is the DA is going to say "You went out that day planning to kill because you made sure you had no alternative!"

Nah, check his other posts... he seems OK.

Don't try and explain why you carry a gun to this guy, can't you see he is trying to bait you?

[Plink]

Pepper spray works differently on some folks. I have a friend who's with the Sheriffs dept. He's certified in several types of sprays and with certification comes being sprayed with it. A lot of them can fight through it and continue an attack though not as effectively.

I carry both pepper spray and a gun. My reasoning is that I can't morally or legally shoot an obnoxious drunk wanting to fight with me. I also can't risk him getting the best of me and gaining access to my gun. Pepper spray is one more line of defense. I came to the conclusion that as soon as I began carrying a gun, my brawling days were over.

Also, if I felt that pepper spray would defuse a situation and not resort in me needing to pull a gun, I'd sure use it. It's just one more option to have. I carry a tactical light as another option too. Works great on dogs as I found out the hard way.

[ranger53]

When I go out, if I don't carry, I've got pepper spray. Even, if I'm going to work. PERIOD!:D
tommy