[DMK]

First off, don't tell me to get a bigger caliber. I have two 1911s in 45ACP which I carry, (the Colt CCO I consider the perfect CCW for 90% of the time) and I also have a 642 J-frame pocket gun. Once in a while I even conceal my CZ-40B.

For this thread, I'm looking for a tiny gun to use in very specific circumstances.

I can justify both and I can find drawbacks to both.

Pros for Keltec P32:
Thin
Slightly larger projectile at 700-800fps
Faster follow up shots
Higher Capacity
faster/easier reload
Larger grip

Cons:
It's a semi-auto, higher chance of jam
Can't be fired from pocket
Rimlock
Doesn't seem very durable


Pros for the NAA 22Mag Mini Revolver:
Smaller
less chance of jam
higher velocity 900-1000fps
Can be fired from pocket

Cons:
Less purchase on the smaller grip
Difficult to reload
single action, slow follow up shots



Comments from the forum?

[feedthehogs]

The Naa revolver is a danger to the shooter to shoot. I havn't seen one yet that don't throw bullet pieces to the side of the cylinder when fired.

The P32 is much more reliable, accurate of the two.
Certainly one I would bet my life on.

[DaleCooper51]

I carried a p32 for a while and it was a nice little pistol. I used to throw it in my pocket while cycling and I would often forget it was there. I never had any issues with it and it was 100 percent reliable and pretty accurate for what it was. I think if I got another one of them, that I would get the 380 version as it looks to be the same size and ammo is a little cheaper than the 32acp.

[DMK]

I think if I got another one of them, that I would get the 380 version as it looks to be the same size and ammo is a little cheaper than the 32acp. I considered that also, but I don't have any .380s and have quite a few 32ACP guns. I hate to stock yet another caliber for just a little difference in performance.

Plus I could probably get a better deal on a P32 since most folks want the 3AT.

[Sistema1927]

I have both. The P32 is small enough that it can be carried anywhere that the mini-revolver will fit. If I only had one it would be the Kel-Tec.

[Derby FALs]

Why do you say the P32 can't be fired from your pocket?

[DMK]

Why do you say the P32 can't be fired from your pocket?Good point. It could be fired at least once. It would likely jam on the first round though due to a interference with the slide causing a failure to eject or feed.

[DMK]

I have both. The P32 is small enough that it can be carried anywhere that the mini-revolver will fit. If I only had one it would be the Kel-Tec.

I'm not discounting your opinion. Obviously you have the 1st person perspective. But from Oleg's comparison pic, the NAA seems a bit more svelt.

http://a-human-right.com/s_mini-p32.jpg (http://a-human-right.com/mini-p32.jpg)

[Sistema1927]

I didn't say they were the same size, only that the P32 would carry anywhere that the NAA would fit. Both will go into very deep concealment without problem.

[MCgunner]

I'd rather have a P3AT than the P32, frankly. I see little advantage in the .32ACP over the .22 mag, both inadequate. So, I'd go with the .22 mag especially if it had a LR cylinder, cheaper to play with. I wouldn't carry either for self defense. .380 is my bottom line as a primary caliber. I might carry either as a BUG, though, last ditch weapon, ultra hide out.

[461]

Having owned and carried both I vote for the Kel-Tec for power and practical useability. The Kel-Tec is much easier to use and reload if need be, ammo is more powerful, carries as easy as the NAA as well. Rim lock was an early issue as the .32acp is semi-rimmed, the fix is to put a small spacer at the back of the magazine so the rounds can't shift- a paperclip works very well.

Not to slam the NAA at all, it's built and works like a swiss watch and I love it but it's not up to the use level the Kel-Tec is at.

Feedthehogs- My NAA doesn't spit lead at all, and if it did then NAA customer service would take care of it quite promptly. NAA customer service is legendary.

[GunNut]

I'd have to recommend the Kel-tec as a last ditch CCW BUG over the NAA.

The NAA is really hard to shoot with man sized hands.

Steve

[rolltide]

I own a NAA 22mag and a NAA 32 Gaurdian. The 32 acp is a MUCH better defensive round than the 22mag and the semi-auto is a much better defensive platform due to the "pros" you stated already. Buy the Kel-Tec, but I would be careful of the P-32 as some will rimlock with JHP unless you use a device in the mag to prevent it. That is a big reason I chose the NAA Guardian in the same caliber.

Roll Tide

[happy old sailor]

my pick, KelTech. i love my little .32 and dont leave home without it.

i experienced probs initially, but close exam found the ammo (Win whitebox) to be at fault. the rims of about 10% were too thick to slip behind the extractor. after sorting them and buying no more whitebox, i had no other probs whatsoever. i still hand cycle the carry rounds thru the gun, not only the .32, but all guns (revos too). i want no probs if i need them.

i call all these sub calibers face guns as a shot or two to the face will be quite effective as a stop what you are doing round.

the .380 is a little frisky to me, so, i go with the .32. just a choice, not a recommendation. and, the .380 is not as wimpy as many think. it was "the" round in Europe until they invented the .380 magnum, the 9mm.

keep any pocket gun free of pocket lint and over lubrication, a gummy combination.

nuff said. luck with your choice.



i

[mcwjr13]

I just bought the kel-tec P-3AT today seems like a good little gun plus keltec seems to be a favorite on this forum

[ArchAngelCD]

I’ve been told the P-3AT hard to fire in such a small and light package. mcwjr13, since you just bought one, is it really that hard to fire?

I just bought a P32 today so you can probably guess how I voted! lol I haven't gotten a chance to fire it but I hope to this weekend.

For those who insist on saying the 7.65mm Browning is inadequate, you should really give it a rest. That caliber has been the standard Police caliber in Europe since the end of WWI. There have been dozens of quality pistols chambered in the 7.65mm Browning. Do you think the Walther PPK would have survived this long if the round it fired was inadequate? I think NOT!! You people have to stop listening to what uninformed people say and then repeat it thinking you are right. Acting like an echo chamber doesn't make you smart. A .32 cal projectile traveling at 970 fps is no joke.

[Cybrludite]

Love my P-32. I'd add that I've had zero problems with the WWB. (Or any other make of ammo, for that matter) Mine's the early model, too.

[aaronrkelly]

I have a P3AT and a NAA mini-revolver in .22mag with the holster grips.

The holster grips were ABSOLUTELY necessary for me to be able to fire the gun safely, I have big hands.

With the holster grips on the gun its larger then in stock trim, therefore its P3AT sized.

Its also seems heavier then the P3AT, atleast when its setting in the bottom of your pocket.

I read above someone thought the NAA was less reliable then the KT, that I DONT agree with. I have NO doubt my NAA will fire, Im still a little hesitant with the KT.

I still think the KT is the better option.

[Geno]

A .32 ACP? No. Get at minimum a .380 ACP. I carry a P3AT and a NAA .22 Mag as back-ups. They are both appropriate for such. The NAA mini-revolver is ultra-slow to reload. In fact, to reload it requires disassembling the revolver. If you get the a P3AT, get the hard chromed model. The owner of the store where I purchased mine reported a 33% return to the factory due to FTFs and FTEs. The hard chromed P3AT models had a 0% return rate.

[DirksterG30]

I’ve been told the P-3AT hard to fire in such a small and light package. mcwjr13, since you just bought one, is it really that hard to fire?

It is not as easy as a larger gun, but it works well for its intended purpose. You have to use a very tight grip, and possibly adjust your grip somewhat (I have to curl my thumb up so I don't hit the mag release), but you can be quite accurate with it. I would suggest painting the sights, as they are very small & hard to see.

[GEM]

I have seen too many Kel-tec products belly up to trust them. Just my two cents. I have two NAAs and they never failed on the range.

[Mat, not doormat]

P32! Mine's an early model 2001, or so, and is 100%, w/ anything but fiocchi. Easy to shoot, compared to a SA microgun. much faster to reload, bigger bullets, more rounds. Where's the downside?

~~~Mat

[Moondoggie]

I also have an earlier model P32 from 2001 and have never had any problems with it.

Even though I don't have large hands, I've found it easier to fire with my middle finger on the trigger and my index finger laying along the frame just below the slide. It just "points" better that way for me.

I also consider it a "face gun"...or up under the jaw. I'm sure it will make almost anyone stop and reconsider. If not, then it's a pretty good "persuader" applied "up side the head". (A roll of dimes is my favorite "non-lethal" weapon.")

[DaltonSpringfield]

I carry a P3AT everywhere, shooting it isn't that much different than shooting the P32. Felt recoil is SLIGHTLY more, but not unbearable. I can't explain it, but I found the P3AT to be much more accurate in my hands than was the P32. Either would make a fine carry-it-everywhere gun and/or BUG. I do not own a NAA .22mag and can't comment on it's function, reliability, or shootability. But, I can say I searched every offering in any caliber I could find that would fit in my (rather small) hip pocket, and after examining the choices and researching them on the web, my initial choice was the P32, and as soon as the P3AT came out, I swapped the P32 for the .380 version. The only downside I have found to the P3AT is that after about 200 rounds of sustained shooting it began to rub the webbing of my hand raw. I think it is great for it's purpose, I carry mine in a pocket holster in my hip pocket, it has become such a part of my wardrobe that I feel naked without it.
I would recommend the Keltec, I preffer the P3AT, but the P32 is just as good. I will not go NAA-bashing by leaving my uninformed opinion here.
Dalton

[MICHAEL T]

I vote KT also the 32 isn't that bad Corbon 32 is coming out of a KY at close to 1000fps. that 60 gr HP is going to hurt.
I have 2 32's and a 380. With the 380 I want to stop after 50 rounds 32 can keep playing.. My wife carries a 32 and I carry 380.

[DMK]

Wow, that poll's a landslide.

Alright, you guys convinced me.

Maybe I'll get both. :)

[MCgunner]

The NAA is really hard to shoot with man sized hands.

Someone mentioned it already, but if you want to shoot a mini revolver accurately, get the folding holster grip. It is smaller still than the P32 (at least in .22LR) and the gun flips out like a lock blade knife for firing. It is mandatory IMHO for mini revolvers.

[tumbleweed]

ive got a naa 22convertable/22mag-long,they are hard to shoot accuaratly,the long rifle is more accurate than the magnums:what:

[johndoe1027]

First off, don't tell me to get a bigger caliber.
A .32 ACP? No. Get at minimum a .380 ACP.
I have a NAA 22 mag and I love it. I don't think the holster grips are necessary at all unless you have large hands. I have average hands. One important thing to notice is that the NAA in the comparison pic is a 22lr with a 1 and 1/8" barrrel. This is the smallest NAA makes. The 22 mag has a different frame entirely. The grip is larger (a must for me) and the 22 mag is available in 1 1/8" and 1 5/8"(mine). The accuracy is no good past 5 yards on mine. I can get 5 body mass hits no prob at 5 yards though.
I have no experience with the Kel Tec but I did have a NAA Guardian in .32 that was not all that fun to shoot. It was probably a little heavier than the Kel-tec too. I could get through maybe 50 rounds before things started to hurt. I can shoot my 22 mag all day with no worries (or lead flying out of the side?????????). I do not know where the "lead out the side" thing came form. I've never heard that.
All that said, you'll never learn to reload a mini mag as fast as any semi. Thats why I have at least one other gun around (maybe in the car). I would use the 22 mag to "get me back to the car" or "in the face".
I dont give a crap about the caliber, a .17hmr to the face would stop me from doing whatever I shouldn't have been doing. That also being said the gun that stays under my seat has .410 gauge 000 buck in it. :evil: Needless to say, I'm a big fan of extremes.

[Ichiro]

Having shot neither, I'd go with the Kel-tec.

[pap1105]

my choice is kt p32 with fmj. i own 2nd gen and it is reliable .

[Stevie-Ray]

P-32 loaded with Geco hardball. Fairly hot load.

[nelson133]

I own a Kel-Tec P3-AT and a mini revolver and would recommend the Kel-Tec. The NAA gun is well built, but the grips are too small for me to control the gun when firing. I have doubts about the effectiveness of the .22 mag round from a very short barrel.

[gazpacho]

I've owned 5 Kel-Tec Pistols in my lifetime, 4 P32s and 1 P3AT. The P3AT broke a trigger. I had it repaired then sold it. I still have all 4 P32s.

I recommend Sellier & Bellot 72gr FMJ. FMJ gives you maximum reliability and penetration. European 32acp is loaded hotter than American.

The only modification I recommend is filing down the magazine release so that it requires a fingernail to actuate it. When I carry a spare magazine, I carry it in a second P32. The button sticks out a little far, so I file it down to make accident mag release that much more unlikely. (I've had 1 accidental release, when in pocket. I don't know the reason.)

As to durability, one of my P32s has had more than 3,000 rounds through it. It still has all the original parts.

[TxCajun]

I own and enjoy both. :cool:

For defensive purposes, IMO, the P32 is much better pick. More rounds, (I use a +1 extension = 8+1), bigger, heavier bullets, better velocity, better accuracy, easily carried everywhere...

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32acp/gel32acp.htm

[DMK]

P-32 loaded with Geco hardball. Fairly hot load.I remember buying that Geco ammo from AIM Surplus a few years back for $6 a box. I have a small ammo can full of it. That's great stuff isn't it? Hot and accurate.

[Highpower1]

I have both and I almost ALWAYS go with the Keltec.

[chipp]

I'm still voting for the 22mag. I recomend the black widow. The grip is good and the barrell length should help with accuracey. If you want a grip thinner than the wood grip that you can hold on to, private message me.
The thing i have found about the mini's is that the pin that holds the cylinder in, sometimes work out during shooting. my freedom arms 4 shot has always done it and now my Naa is doing it. I use a thin piece of electrical tape just in case. I know you can forget reloading it. If he is that close you might as well start biting and scratching.

Honestly i would get both. I have A NAA 32 also. Although they are both deep cover. I think the 22 mag is deep deep cover. I've put it under my hat in the hot tub. There are times when I wouldn't carry but with the 5 shot there are pretty much no times.
The kel-tec scares me thats the second time i heard of the trigger braking.

I'd probably carry the keltec more but ask me in the summer. It will be the 22.

here is an article. coparing 32 380 22mag 10" penetration from a 22 mag. there are more tests like this. this is out of a 351pd. the tolerances are better than the Naa.


http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4299

[chipp]

heres another

http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a10/a10-23.html

[obxned]

I am fond of the little NAA revolvers - they are reliable and surprisingly accurate. However, I'd rather have the Kel-Tec .32 if the zombies are coming for me.

Actualy, make that the P3AT - same size, more bang!

[USGuns]

No Fluff and Buff necessary on the mini-revolver ... it'll work right, right out of the box.
Also, in my blue jeans front pockets, the mini-revolver seems to print much less because of the smaller height, frame/grip shape, etc.

[Machete]

I have a P3-AT. I've never had any problems with it. I think those little mini revolvers are cool but I just don't think I could carry one and feel safe. My dad has one. I think of them more as just a neat gun to have. If you want to carry a revolver I recommend a S&W Airweight... Oops you said don't recommend larger calibers, couldn't help it.

[Legionnaire]

Have, shoot, and enjoy both. That said, the P32 is the "always" gun. Rides in an Alessi pocket holster.

[WeedWhacker]

I also recommend the NAA Black Widow in .22WMR. Personally, I've heard too many bad things about Kahr to be able to trust one of their products with the life of myself or a loved one.

The NAA I had was solid from the get-go. The fit and finish were nice, as well as the trigger pull. With the larger rubber grips, the pistol fit my hand nicely, though I'd since opted to swap them out for the smaller bird's head grips to make the overall package even smaller.

An issue I've had with my Black Widow is the combination of getting too much lube down into the action which then allows the main screw to (slowly) back out after repeated firings (over 1,000 .22LR and .22WMR by my estimation) to the point where the side panel opens up enough to allow the hand spring to slip off the hand. !@#$.
The NAA remedy is to tighten that screw down as much as physically possible. Good gunsmithing screwdriver bits highly recommended.

That said, you've noted the obvious weak points of the NAA minis, but there is one more clarification to make: I wouldn't ever count on being able to reload the thing while under life-and-death stress.
North American Arms is the current manufacturer of a line of (reputedly) quality tiiiny revolvers. They're single-action, most carry five rounds, and take major finger-gymnastics to reload: there's no cylinder swing and you have to use the removable cylinder pin to push out the spent shells. Then you have to reload... that's juggling up to eight items which all need to be carefully placed in small holes! Any reloads you carry probably should be of the New York variety.

Even with all that, those are five shots which can be taken anywhere and which can be counted upon five times.

[telomerase]

I also recommend the NAA Black Widow in .22WMR. Personally, I've heard too many bad things about Kahr to be able to trust one of their products


OOOOK... but the thread is about Kel-Tec :confused:

Thanks for your experience with the BW. Isn't there a factory fix for the screw backing out?

[tinygnat219]

Go with the P32 (although WHY you have limited yourself to such a small caliber is beyond me. Well, it's your butt on the line, not mine). For one reason and one reason only. It's a Centerfire cartridge. I have never owned a rimfire revolver or semiauto that didn't have a misfire every now and again (usually once every 200 rounds or so). Centerfire misfires, in my experience, have been MUCH rarer.

If you want to trust your life to a mini-rimfire revolver, that's your choice. The 32 ACP cartridge, while not even realistically a real self-defense cartridge, is the best of the bad choices available in your poll.

[WeedWhacker]

OOOOK... but the thread is about Kel-Tec
"Keltec P32 or NAA 22Mag?"


Thanks for your experience with the BW. Isn't there a factory fix for the screw backing out?
The NAA remedy is to tighten that screw down as much as physically possible. Good gunsmithing screwdriver bits highly recommended.
I suppose I could have sent it back to the factory to have the screw tightened down hard, but why? Now I have good gunsmithing screwdrivers and I took care of the problem myself - important, I think, because the screw only started coming loose after I'd taken the revolver apart on my own.

[Joe Demko]

I have both. The P-32 required a trip back to the factory before it would work right. The NAA worked properly out of the box. Neither is what I would call a first class defensive piece.

[coach22]

Go to this link on the North American Arms site.
Look at the GSO-M grips. They slip on the frame
and aren't too much bigger than the standard grips.
The 2 piece rubber ones (GRC-M) don't always fit right. I tried those.
The GSO-M's stay on tight and make the gun much easier to control.
Those are the grips I have on my 22 mag with the 1 & 1/8 inch barrel.
http://www.naaminis.com/grip22.html

coach22

[OnDuty]

I have the KT P3AT. I love it. Go with the KT 32acp and use FMJ only for self-defense.

[slow944]

I've owned both, and I sold them both and bought the P3AT, very accurate at 10-15yds. You can get the Corbon or TAP ammo for the 380.

[berettashotgun]

P32 is much quieter (if you can say that) than the 22mag. FACT
I've never chron'ed my tiny 22mag revolver, but basically it is a controlled release of the powder. I'm betting on 700fps from the mini revolver- possibly the same as the 22lr version. A guess on my part.
32acp ball is a better round than most think, it is worthless (to me) with a hollow point bullet.

[USGuns]

http://www.naaminis.com/magvel.html

CCI Maxi Mag +V
30 Gr. HP 1st Group 2nd Group Avg. 1st Group 2nd Group Avg. 2 Gun Avg.
High 1253 1283 1268 1155 1165 1160 1214
Low 1158 1115 1137 1098 1044 1071 1104
Mean 1195 1174 1185 1130 1112 1121 1153
SD 50 64 57 24 46 35 46

[Ultraman]

Of the two choices I'd go with the Kel-Tec.
Think of it as a Single Shot .32 Derringer. If it jams, you can clear it about as fast as you can re-cock the NAA.

At about the same size as the NAA you could carry a LW SEECAMP in .32 or .380. Plus the LW SEECAMP is very unlikely to jam. JMHO

Bill
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/wmlapham/Mice001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/wmlapham/Mice002.jpg

[berettashotgun]

Those ballistic charts refer to the 1 5/8" barrel. I THINK that's the long barrel, mine seems like 1"- at least next to a scale.

[USGuns]

Here's the ballistics for the same ammo for the 1 1/8" barrel:

CCI Maxi Mag +V
30 Gr. HP 1st Group 2nd Group Avg. 1st Group 2nd Group Avg. 2 Gun Avg.
High 1056 1108 1082 1145 1141 1143 1113
Low 985 1044 1015 1040 1032 1036 1025
Mean 1021 1074 1048 1089 1062 1076 1062
SD 30 31 31 52 46 49 40

http://www.naaminis.com/msvel.html

[jon_in_wv]

I often carry my P32. I load two rounds of Corbon JHP and the rest are ball rounds. Is is amazingly easy to shoot accurately and I have no doubt it is a deadly weapon. I wouldn't compare it to a NAA revolver. Its ability to shoot accurately, quickly, and reload quickly greatly surpasses the NAA. On the flip side of that, I would love it if KT would make a 22mag version of their small guns. That would really be a hand rocket.:D

[gezzer]

I have sold many Kel-Tec P32's 1 has come back that was due to the customer taking it fully apart and not being able to put it back together.

Our shop has everyone owning one with no problems at all. My wife’s and mine have over 500 rnds each with not one malfunction, being as inexpensive as they are many internet status ninjas dis them.