[Mark Tyson]

Given that modern automatic weapons are illegal for civilians now, how does Hollywood simulate machine guns?

[Thumper]

Stembridge's gun rentals provided a lot of stuff up until 1999, but they quit due to the oppressive legal climate in Kali.

When did full auto weapons become illegal for civilians?

:confused:

[Mark Tyson]

An amendment in a 1986 law allowed the ATF to deny permits for any machine guns made after 1986. Therefore you can buy an old automatic weapon but not a new one. There is an exception for dealers who sell to the police or military.

[AK103K]

civilians can still own any gun in the registry though, so they are not really illegal for civilans to own. Just any manufactured after 86. Still not sure how this is legal in the first place, but then again, what does it matter anymore, they make the rules to suit themselves and we go along with it.:rolleyes:

[Matt G]

They're real MG's and SMG's. It's not illegal to own full-auto, as long as you've paid the extortion tax on them. But for the tax, it's like high-cap (standard capacity) magazines-- just look for them, and you'll find them around.

--M.G.

[Thumper]

Matt...I think he's talking about post '86 guns.

I'd bet some are "demo guns" from dealers, some airsoft, some legally converted...all kinds of stuff.

I also remember reading somewhere that there were some exemptions available for moviemakers...money talks, especially in Kali.

[another okie]

The National Firearms Act of 1934 created the current tax and regulatory scheme. It was a response to gangsters with Thompsons and BARs. The NFA is just the federal layer of legislation, however. Some states have completely banned full-autos in the hands of non-Law enforcement people. Others have imposed additional requirements. Since the NFA requires approval by local law enforcement that means that some folks can't get them even if it's legal in their state.

[Johnny Guest]

"When did full auto weapons become illegal for civilians? "

The National Firearms Act of 1934 required that certain "Gangster type" armaments be regulated, and it was set up to do so by registration and taxation. They included fully automatic firearms, "Sawed off" long guns with barrels and overall lengths below certain dimensions, sound suppressors, and, I believe, explosive items like greanades and mortal shells. Not too sure about the latter two types. That regulation might have come later.

Thus, the above stuff is frequently termed "NFA weapons." If you phone BATF in D.C. to check on machine gun registration matters, that office answers, "NFA Branch."

A couple of things, perhaps worthy of note - - - There WAS a lot of unprecedented crime during that time, with organized (and disorganized) criminal gangs making use of powerful automobiles and an improving public highway system to have great mobility. Law enforcement lagged behind in rapid interstate communication to combat the "motor robbers." The nation was deep in the throes of the Great Depression. Money was tight, jobs were scarce, many lost homes and farms to bank foreclosures. Many despairing individuals viewed bank robbers as striking a blow at "Big Money," and glorified at least some of these vicious criminals.

Typically, the feds were slapping band aids onto sucking chest wounds, and took aim at a relatively few tools used by the gangsters. The most visible and famous were the relatively few submachine guns available. Contrary to popular movie depictions, many more shotguns and rifles were used by criminals than full auto guns. (But the movie image of continuous muzzle flashes and empty brass looks GREAT on the screen, far more so than just an old pump gun or Winchester rifle being fired.) There were probably only a few dozen Thompson guns and Browning Automatic Rifles in criminal hands, with the vast majority being in the hands of the police, private security concerns, and the military.

Banks, mining and oil companies, movie studios, and others were so influential that full auto was not prohibited outright, but these weapons were heavily taxed. Interestingly, the cost of the tax stamp remains today what it was in 1934: $200. In 1934, many families lived pretty well on $100 per month income, so we can see how prohibitive this tax was at that time. In contrast, the Auto Ordnance company would sell a 1928 Thompson for $200.

With all the social woes of the depression, it is hard to believe the federal government realized any significant financial assistance from the sale of these tax stamps to private persons who wanted to remain legal.

Anyway, the answer to that question was "1934." The rest is just rambling and social commentary. ;)

Best,
Johnny

[Thumper]

Johnny,

It's a pet peeve of mine that the Left has successfully purpetuated the myth that "machine guns are illegal."

You know as well as I do that they're not. It's amazing how hard it is to convince some people, even gunowners, of that fact.

[SoCalGeek]

Look at it this way-

If the general public knew machine guns were legal, do you think they would stay that way for much longer?

[Mark Tyson]

Hey guys,

Sorry, I was unclear in my question. I'm familiar with the NFA. I wanted to know about modern (i.e. post 1986) automatic weapons, given that civilians can't own machine guns made after 1986.

[ACP230]

Licensed manufacturers can still make new full auto firearms for sale to other dealers and for police, government agencies and the military. (Dealers have to have a letter showing interest in the weapon from one of the agencies above for a transfer to go through.)

I have heard that manufacturers are hired by the movie studios. They convert or make guns on the set and remain on the set while they are being used. Thus no transfer has taken place. After the film is done being shot the guns are sometimes destroyed. Sort of a wasteful way to do business, but it works.

I have also heard that many of the full auto effects seen in the flicks are magicked in, rather than filmed live. The guns may not be fired at all in those scenes.

[Stickjockey]

Hollywood simulates machineguns in several ways. Two of the most common are to use guns adapted or built to fire blank ammunition, either standard caliber or specially made cinematic blanks; and in the case of heavier weapons such as truck-or aircraft-mounted guns, they use guns made with a gas-powered(usually propane) system to simulate muzzle-flash and sound.

There may be other ways, but those are the two I know of.

[Johnny Guest]

- - - Some old articles about use of acetylene gas being used to simulate machine gun flashes in some old movies about WW-I aerial combat. I'm trying to recall the source - - - I guess they could have mistaken the gas used, but I am certain of the recollection. Of course it could have been other writers simply drawing on the first guy's error. ;)

Best,
Johnny

[300NOSLER]

From many experiences in the aircraft(read civilian) community, Oshkosh & throughout the PA,NY,NJ areas, whenever an arial combat/display with WWII fighters/bombers, there were a few planes that were configured with acetylene fed into the exhaust ports that made the simulated gunfire sound VERY realistic. I wonder if the left coasters/hollywood slime haven't stolen this technology for their cinematic lies??????? Please don't wind me up----I'll tell you how I really feel!!!!....Wayne;)

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Most of the gas-oprated guns are run on compressed air. If you're carefull, you can see hoses comming off the bottom of most MG's in movies. Sound comes later, added into the soundtrack.

Pistol-caliber subguns are sometimes set-up with a barrel restrictor so they can run on blanks, which also involves removing locking systems, but most SMG's are blowback, so that's not an issue.

Read about a well-known gunsmith who provided a couple of match-setup race-guns for some flick. They came back modified, sans locking lugs, with welded-in plugs. These were guns that were worth a couple grand each, and had been so modified without permission!

[Feanaro]

Some movie makers are using Airsoft weapons and the like, then adding muzzle flash, brass and such later on with a computer.