[Glamdring]

Anyone use heavier than 125 grain but lighter than 173/180 grain bullet in the 357? For anything besides paper punching.

Interested in terminal ballistics. Jello results?

I've decided 38's & 357's will be main CCW guns and I'm going to get a lever gun in 357 also. I don't think the common 125 grain loads are a good choice for carbine (they act more like varmint bullet then), so I want some type of expanding bullet that is a little tougher than the 125's but not true solid like a hard cast Keith or LBT that will perform well in both 3-4" revolver and in 18" carbine.

I have shot the 145 Silvertips in my revolver but haven't tried Gold Dots yet. From what I understand the Gold DOt should work well in the carbine but I'm not sure how well it will expand when fired from a 4" gun.

[tech]

I am interested this also as I have a marlin and ruger combo I like to run around with. I wonder if mirthryl would make a good bullet proof vest??

Mike

[ChristopherG]

The performance of the Gold dots, whether from a revolver or carbine, will come down to what speed it's flying at. Georgia Arms' 'Deer-stopper' .357 offers a 158 gr. Gold dot moving something like 1475 fps (from a 6" barrel; figure what, 1350 from a 4"?). That's fast enough (even in that shorter barrel) to expect reliable expansion, and, with that substantial bullet weight, very dynamic results. Now, some folks have chrono'd these same loads out of a carbine, and come up with impressive results--like in the neighborhood of 1900 fps. At that speed, I'd be concerned that the Gold dot would more or less explode, sacrificing adequate penetration (in something like a deer, which is what I'd envision shooting with a .357 carbine; in a anti-personell capacity, this might be okay). IMHO, the carbine is probably better suited to reasonably fast JSPs, which will open some under the force of carbine velocities. For revolvers, both of the loads you've mentioned have good records.
CG

PS--I'm with you on the issue of bullet weight. The 125 gr. was a remedy for poor expanding bullet technology, a problem we don't have near as much anymore.

[Glamdring]

The carbine is for two or four legged varmints. Deer hunting around here has to be SG (slugs) or handgun.

Thanks for the Georgia Arms mention, I forgot they load lots of different Gold Dots.

[Glamdring]

$270.00 per 1000 for the Georgia Arms 357/158 GDHP @ 1475.

[Jim March]

The Gold Dot 158 has a LOT of potential, esp. in a 4" or greater barrel.

Very short (2", 2.5") barrels "as a general rule" tend to do better with lighter rounds. There are exceptions, such as the 158 pure lead hollowpoints that do well in 38+Ps but since the Gold Dot is a "delayed expansion" JHP, it needs some ooomph to get working right.

However, of all the JHP designs, it holds up best when "over-driven" out of a long barreled handgun or a carbine. The lead is well-bonded to the jacket, so if *any* JHP is going to do well in a 16" - 20" barrel, it'll be a Gold Dot. I think you'd be crazy to load anything else in your 357 home defense levergun :).

In a 4" barrel, I'd use the 158GD over a 125, esp. the hot Georgia Arms variant. Besides good expansion, these things will give you more momentum and the ability to reliably break the hip bone. The pelvis is a largish target and when you're facing some idiot with an edged or clublike weapon, breaking the pelvis will "pin them in place" *very* reliably. It's a tough bone, the toughest in the human body, and I'd rather deal with it with a 158.

The 158 is also very good doggy medicine, with excellent "deep punch". In some places (such as rural areas), doggies are probably your biggest threat.

[Glamdring]

Well MN (where I live) just became a shall issue state. Our permits are not limited to handguns. So I can legally carry loaded rifle or SG in car. At home the 12 gauge is primary long arm.

I've decided that revolvers are the way I am going for CCW. But I want a long gun in the trunk. Figured since I am going with 38 snubs and 4" 357s for CCW, a 357 lever gun made more sense than anything else for trunk gun.

I will be reloading for the revolvers and buying new ammo in bulk feeding three guns that all take same caliber should allow be to buy in larger quanities for more savings.

Basically I want a soft and a solid for each gun. I live in the country and I like to hike (not just in this state). And IMHO flat tipped hard cast handgun bullets have more utility in the field than HP's.

For the 38 snub, and the 4" 357 if needed/wanted, plan to use 38+P 158 LHP for softs and 160 WFN hardcast (from Cast Performance).

For the 4" 357 and the '94 I will use 180 hardcast for solid if it functions in the lever gun (don't have the lever gun yet) or a magnum loading of the 160. Have used the 180 in my 4" 357 for a few years now and like it.

Anyone think of any reason NOT to use the 158 GDHP for this nich? Honestly I will probably use the 38+P 158 LHP in the 357 revolver for carry till I can shoot the magnum loads fast enough, with accuracy, to meet my personal standards.

Plan to use the GDHP in the carbine though as soon as I get the lever gun. Unless someone can think of a better choice for combined carbine & revolver use?

[Dave Markowitz]

This is a good thread, as I'm interested in settling on a load for my EMF/Rossi .357 levergun.

Has anyone tried the Gold Dot 170 grain SPs (not HPs)?

Also, can anyone recommend a good hard cast bullet in the 158 to 180 grain range that can be driven at high velocity in a rifle without leading?

[Glamdring]

I plan to use these bullets till I start casting my own
http://performance.elixirlabs.com/index.php

[foghornl]

Right now, I only have 1 .357 Revo, a short-barrel [about 3.5"] "Sheriff's Model" Vaquero. Best load I have found for it so far is the Speer 158 Gr Gold Dot, followed very closely by the PMC brand 158 Gr JSP round.

[Tom B]

I use 145gr Silvertips in my revolvers. Also 125gr Silvertips in my 9mm autos. No vampire bites as of this date!:neener:

[tech]

The 145gr silvertips seem to keep down the wolfmen in Northern Arkansas also.

Mike

[Tamara]

I keep my 3" PC627 loaded with 158gr Georgia Arms Deerstoppers because... er... well, just because I can. :uhoh:

[JERRY]

another vote for the 145gr. sthp.

[Rob96]

KGP-141 and SP-101 are loaded with 145gr Silvertips.

[p35]

I lost a lot of faith in the "break the pelvis" theory after my brother broke his hip in a bicycle accident and then walked three blocks back to his office for help. May have been leaning on the bike, don't know for sure, but he made it and had to be talked into going to the hospital, where they kept him for a week.

[DBR]

Another round to consider is the Remington 357 158gr SJHP. It clocks 1200fps avg out of my Ruger SP101 2 1/4" and the velocity spread is only about 40fps. The Remington SJHP has a good reputation for reliable expansion. For long barrels, the Remington 165gr Corelokt (sp) should be a good choice.

[Glamdring]

DBR: Thanks I will test that round also.

***
p35: Did you post to the wrong thread??

[Jim March]

No, he didn't. I had mentioned that one thing the 158s are supposedly able to do better than 125s (both in 357Maggie) is break the pelvis.

His comments are food for thought :eek:.

[Glamdring]

My bad, I see now that you point it out :uhoh:

***

Pelvic shots: Jim Cirillo certainly felt they worked. In college had a Medical Examiner in one of my small groups, forensic anthropology class, he didn't think handgun bullets were to likely to do much to pelvic girdle. He wasn't a gun person, but his opinion was to just keep shooting at heart/lung area. Said there were all kinds of things there that bullets would mess up. He didn't think much of headshots either.