Lead and Smoke vs Plastic and Air


June 7, 2003, 10:19 PM
People that know me, know that I love shooting lead and reloading. But I also like to practice defensive shooting in a realistic way.
After talking to a buddy I bought a couple of Airsoft Gas Blow-Back pistols. A Beretta and a Glock. These ran about $100 to $150 and are so exact a few LEOs I shoot with could not tell the difference (unless they noticed the brass barrels.) At up to 10 yards they are just as accurate as my "Real Steel" - assuming no wind. And you can use your holsters and practice real speed drills, point shooting, etc.

The Airsoft Beretta grips are now on my real gun since they were better quality. And when I show a Glock owner a 50 round full auto mag for $49 that's made better than an actual Glock Mag they just get angry. The Glock shoots 700 rounds per minute.

The ducks stay away from my back yard now.


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June 8, 2003, 03:08 AM
I've been considering an airsoft gas blowback pistol for a while now, but I've been concerned about quality. You seem to be very satisfied with yours, so what brand are they? I think I'll finally get something I can shoot in the house :) Probably an MK23 so I don't confuse it with all my other HKs and have a bad accident.

Or maybe a beretta.... or a sig. Who knows?

Oh I know! A Desert Eagle! :evil:

June 8, 2003, 04:44 AM
Sounds fun, but also sounds like a mess to clean up.

June 8, 2003, 05:04 AM
Well I played paintball for a good while, so cleaning is something I'm quite used too. ;)

June 8, 2003, 09:07 AM
Wondernine: I don't understand the question about "Mess to clean up" There is NOTHING to clean up, you can shoot in your house and the weapons are lubed with silicone grease (the stuff they use for breast implants) they never get dirty at all. I also pay about a dollar more per thousand rounds and get the bio-degradeable BB's made in Japan. - In short no mess no clean-up ever. This is not paintball no mess. I shoot against paper targets, soda cans etc. - Pellets go through both. (Well cans only at close range)

The weapons make real noise, have real recoil and look very scary, The only mess might be if a neighbor calls out the swat team. - Has been known to happen more than a few times.

Dorian: The Japanese guns are the best in general. You'll have to do your homework. There are a couple of internet talk forums that will help. Two rules of thumb - 1) If it costs less than $70 it's crap and 2) repairs if needed can be a nightmare - parts have to come via Taiwan, HK or Japan. You'll have to find out about Trademarks on the weapon as well as that red paint everyone removes. These "weapons" are classified as toys by our Gov't, but I think they'll be banned in a few years.

Dorian: The quality IS a problem, I only use mine for "point shooting practice" so they last. If you get into full auto "Gun games" don't expect them to last very long - just like a real machine gun. Maybe you'll get a year out of a gun, before it needs a new motor or "gear box". The gas pistols usually just blow some rubber "o" rings on the mags which are easily replaced. You also need to use the correct pressure gas for your weapon.

Good Airsoft weapons go from about $120 for the more common gas blowback select fire handguns to $400 for the battery operated gas powered machine guns to about $1000 for the tripod mounted M60's

You'll have to see the full auto machine guns/pistols with the glow in the dark tracer units to believe it.


June 8, 2003, 09:52 AM
Did you really expect us to research gas guns and not buy one?

I just dropped $195 into a "KWA Mac-11 version 2 gas blowback".

The gun itself is $129, but it's full auto (1,000 RPM) and a blow back.
I also got the starter kit with two cylinders of Top gas, lube and the BBs.

I still don't understand the concept of gas guns, is the "Top gas, Green gas, etc" basically CO2? Where in the world does it go?

Oh well, I guess I'll be finding out for myself when my new "toy" arrives.

June 8, 2003, 10:26 AM
Snowdog - I hope you got a giant size bag of BBs that sucker will empty 50 round mags in about 2 seconds. I think you've the Magnesium bolt in that gun - sounds like it.

Top Gas and Green Gas are the stronger forms of gas - used in the Taiwanese guns. The Japanese guns use H-134 which is like freon. Top gas smells like propane to me. Buy 100% PURE SILICONE LUBE and grease to maintain your weapon. You can get it at dive shops that work with high pressure oxygen or from model RC racing car places - they call it "shock oil". That SILICONE with an "E".

Lube the "O" rings and the sliding parts - the gas and BBs all go into the Mags. Look for internet forums - and ask about dealers you can trust.

That Director John Woo uses these guns in all his pictures. Look pretty real don't they?

At first you will find it hard to load the mags with gas, but you'll get the hang of it quickly. The gas in the Mag is in liquid form untill the hammer falls and opens a valve that lets a short burst of gas out to drive the BB and drive back the slide or bolt in your case.

CO2 operates at too high a pressure and would really make these weapons very dangerous. As it is the stronger gas guns will penetrate skin at close range.

A buddy - an ex Marine DI was laughing at me for practicing with these over at our range. I gave him my Beretta and took the Glock 18c. We both put on protective goggles etc. Faced off at 60 feet. You know the drill. I said, "OK Jarhead, let's see what you got?" I told him what was going to happen, he just didn't want to listen - He was covered in round welts for a full day. He's our clubs combact instructor and loves to shoot these things with me.


June 8, 2003, 10:46 AM
I don't know zip about these guns, but I'm a quick study.
In the description of the product, it said it had the "upgraded steel bolt", whatever difference that makes. Here's the full description from the website:

*KWA/KSC MAC-11 v2.0 ! made in Taiwan

*Heavy, full metal stock folds out to rifle length

*Full heavy Gas Blowback. Open-bolt gun.

*semi and full-auto. ROF is 1100+ RPM

*This gun rocks! Best M-11 made. same as above gun

*Uses hfc134a gas (230 FPS), or TOP gas (315 FPS). Top gas is recommended (kit #1)

*Very popular. #1 seller. Highly recommened by AA. No trademarks on this model

*Version 2.0 has the upgraded steel bolt!


June 8, 2003, 10:54 AM
My post was a little slow - you got the good version. I think the bolt is actually magnesium. - lighter for better rate of fire. Use Top or Green gas in that gun.


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