Handgun Caliber birthdates


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22x9
December 24, 2002, 11:13 PM
Does anyone know the birthdate/year the handgun cartridges of today?

Like:
.22LR
.22Magnum
.25ACP
.32ACP
.32S&W
.357Magnum
.38 Special
.380ACP
.40S&W
.45ACP

7.62x25
9x17
9x18
9x19
9x23
10mm


I know I've missed some, those were the only ones I could think of.

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Blackhawk
December 24, 2002, 11:30 PM
Sure, and some people can probably recite them from memory.

The rest of us have to look them up. :D

Schuey2002
December 24, 2002, 11:33 PM
Sure, and some people can probably recite them from memory.
I'm sure Mike Irwin is probably one of them..;)

22x9
December 24, 2002, 11:34 PM
Dagnabit... Let me rephrase that.

What are the birthdates? Or where can I find them?

C.R.Sam
December 24, 2002, 11:44 PM
Cartridges of The World is an excellant rescourse.

Gives history, use, dimensions, performance etc.

Sam

Sodbuster
December 24, 2002, 11:52 PM
Some pistol reloading manuals may have dates also. From the Sierra Rifle reloading manual: 9mm Luger 1902; .357 1930s; 41 Mag 1964; 44 Mag December 1955; 45ACP developed in 1906, adopted by the Army in 1911 (sound familiar :)); 45 Colt 1873.

Ala Dan
December 25, 2002, 12:33 AM
.357 magnum = 1935, at least that is when Smith & Wesson
introduced the pre-model 27.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Mike Irwin
December 25, 2002, 02:13 AM
well, can't recite all of them, or get every one spot on as per year, but I'll have a go...

.22LR -- Sometime around 1887 or so. Stevens, I believe, came up with the idea.

.22Magnum -- Announced 1959, first guns in 1960.

.25ACP -- Around 1908, I believe.

.32ACP -- Around 1900.

.32S&W -- 1874ish.

.357Magnum -- Announced late 1934, first guns available in 1935.

.38 Special -- Around 1898/1899 with the Smith & Wesson Military Model Hand Ejector. In other words, the first K frame.

.380ACP -- Around 1898-1900 or so. John Browning had an incredible run over the span of about 10 years.

.40S&W -- I believe 1988 or 1989 is when it first became known.

.45ACP -- 1905.

7.62x25 -- Around 1895 for the Mauser C96.

9x17 -- That's the Mak round, so that would be around 1953 or so, first with the Steichen semi/full auto pistol, I believe.

9x18 -- That's the European designation for the .380 ACP. Answer is the same as above.

9x19 -- 1904, at the behest of the German Navy.

9x23 -- Totally stumped on this one.

10mm -- Around 1983, in the Dornhaus & Dixon Bren 10.

Blackhawk
December 25, 2002, 02:24 AM
9x17 -- That's the Mak round, so that would be around 1953 or so, first with the Steichen semi/full auto pistol, I believe.

9x18 -- That's the European designation for the .380 ACP. Answer is the same as above.

I thought the 9x18 was the Mak round and the 9x17 the .380.

Steven Mace
December 25, 2002, 03:18 AM
.22LR - 1887 by the J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co.
.22Magnum - 1959 by Winchester
.25ACP - 1905 in Europe by Browning, 1908 in the USA by Colt
.32ACP - 1899 by Browning
.32S&W - 1878 by S&W
.357Magnum - 1935 by S&W and Winchester
.38 Special - 1902 by S&W
.380ACP - 1908 by Browning
.40S&W - 1989 by S&W and Winchester
.45ACP - 1905 by Browning

7.62x25 - 1930, first used in the Tokarev Model TT-30
9x17 - same as the .380 ACP
9x18 - late 1950's, a.k.a. 9mm Russian Makarov
9x19 - 1902 by Georg Luger in the Model 1902
9x23 - 1996 by Winchester
10mm - 1983 by Dornaus & Dixon in the Bren Ten

Cartridges Of The World and The Handloader's Manual Of Cartridge Conversions can also be used as excellent references. Hope this helps!

Steve Mace

Triad
December 25, 2002, 08:40 AM
7.62x25 - 1930, first used in the Tokarev Model TT-30
Anyone know the difference between that and the 7.63 Mauser? AFAIK they are basically the same round, but the Mauser appeared in the 1890's.

Tamara
December 25, 2002, 08:45 AM
Anyone know the difference between that and the 7.63 Mauser?

One was made in Russia and called something different, probably to avoid paying royalties to the Boche. ;)

Triad
December 25, 2002, 08:51 AM
http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/lilly/laugh1blue.gif

Steven Mace
December 25, 2002, 09:23 AM
Some differences between the 7.62x25mm Tokarev and the 7.63x25mm Mauser:

1. The Tokarev officially lists a .307" diameter bullet while the Mauser lists a .308" diameter bullet.


2. Rim thickness on the Tokarev is listed as .052" while the Mauser lists .045".

3. The length to the shoulder from the base on the Tokarev in .76" while the Mauser is .735".

4. The shoulder angle on the Tokarev is 13.24 degrees and on the Mauser it's 8.64 degrees.

5. Case capacity on the Tokarev is listed as 15.98 grs. of water while the Mauser is listed having a capacity of 16.30 grs. of water.

Hope this helps!

Steve Mace

max popenker
December 25, 2002, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by Tamara
One was made in Russia and called something different, probably to avoid paying royalties to the Boche. ;)
in fact, the key difference is in the size of the primer. 7.62mm TT uses a larger diameter primer, similar to one found in 7.62mm Nagant cartridges. The extractor groove on the 7.62TT also a little bit larger than on 7.63Meowser :cool: for more positive extraction. othervise, these are interchangeable, unless you will try a hot-rodded Czech 7.62mm military round in the older gun like TT-30 or C-96 (these Czech hot-rods were intended fro SMG and Vz.52 pistols only, you know...)

Jim V
December 25, 2002, 10:30 AM
Mike, I thought the German Navy liked and issued the .7.62 Luger round and it was the German Army that wanted a bigger caliber and the 9 was developed for them. I could be wrong however, I have been before.

Tamara
December 25, 2002, 10:58 AM
Wasn't .30 Luger the Swiss round and the Germans wanted the bigger bullet?

Mike Irwin
December 25, 2002, 11:19 AM
The Tok round is best thought of as a manufacturing variation of the Mauser round.

Germany sold several thousand C96 Mausers to Russia at some point. While the guns weren't too popular, the round was liked.

I don't think anyone knows exactly why the Soviets chose the 7.63 round, but it likely had a lot to do with the fact that the Nagant round was also .30 caliber so bullet and barrel manufacturing equipment could be piggybacked.


Jim,

I don't think the German Navy ever adopted the smaller Luger caliber. Portugal and Switzerland did, and I believe the Royal Netherlands East Indies Army also used Lugers in 7.62.


As for the .38 Spl., there's a LOT of speculation as to when the round was actually developed. I personally believe that COTW's date of 1902 is too late by about 2 to 3 years. The first guns and cartridges were developed on speculation for possible military acceptance, to replace the ineffective .38 Long Colt, so COTW may be giving the commercial introduction for the round.

What many people DON'T know is that the first K-frame Hand Ejectors were chambered for .38 Long Colt!

What is interesting is that the .38 Spl. round was originally developed, and loaded commercially, with black powder, 21.5 grains.

Blackhawk
December 25, 2002, 11:21 AM
Wasn't .30 Luger the Swiss round and the Germans wanted the bigger bullet? Yep.

BigG
December 25, 2002, 09:05 PM
I thought the30 Tokarev and 30 Mauser were both preceded by the 30 Borchardt. :confused:

Russia, I believe, chose 30 cal becuase of the limited manufacturing ability of their workers paradise. Everything they had was 30 caliber. Also why they still use the rimmed Moisin Nagant cartridge in their MGs. We would still be chambering our MGs for 30/40 Krag if we were as advanced. :rolleyes:

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