Zumbo Letter to CCRKBA


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Dave Workman
March 5, 2007, 02:16 PM
Alan Gottlieb asked me to post this publicly. It came from Jim Zumbo to the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.



JIM ZUMBO



February 28, 2007


Mr. Alan Gottlieb, Chairman
Citizens Committee for the
Right to Keep and Bear Arms
12500 N.E. Tenth Place
Bellevue, WA 98005



Dear Alan:

They say that hindsight is always 20-20. In my case, hindsight has been a hard teacher, like the father teaching the son a lesson about life in the wood shed.

I was wrong when I recently suggested that wildlife agencies should ban semiautomatic firearms I erroneously called “assault rifles” for hunting. I insulted legions of my fellow gun owners in the process by calling them “terrorist rifles.” I can never apologize enough for having worn blinders when I should have been wearing bifocals.

But unlike those who would destroy the Second Amendment right to own a firearm – any firearm – I have learned from my embarrassing mistake. My error should not be used, as it has been in recent days by our common enemies, in an effort to dangerously erode our right to keep and bear arms.

I would hope instead to use this spotlight to address my hunting fraternity, many of whom shared my erroneous position. I am a hunter and like many others I had the wrong picture in mind. I associated these firearms with military action, and saw not hunting as I have known it, not the killing of a varmint, but the elimination of the entire colony. Nothing could be further from the truth, but I know from whence it comes. This ridiculous image, formed in the blink of an eye, exerts an unconscious effect on all decisions that follow. In seeking to protect our hunting rights by guarding how we are seen in the public eye, I lost sight of the larger picture; missed the forest for the trees.

My own lack of experience was no excuse for ignoring the fact that millions of Americans – people who would share a campfire or the shelter of their tent, and who have hurt nobody – own, hunt with and competitively shoot or collect the kinds of firearms I so easily dismissed.

I recently took a “crash course” on these firearms with Ted Nugent, to learn more about them and to educate myself. In the process, I learned about the very real threat that faces all American gun owners.

I’ve studied up on legislation now in Congress that would renew and dangerously expand a ban on many types of firearms. The bill, HR 1022 sponsored by New York Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, is written so broadly that it would outlaw numerous firearms and accessories, including a folding stock for a Ruger rifle. I understand that some of the language could ultimately take away my timeworn and cherished hunting rifles and shotguns as well as those of all American hunters.

The extremist supporters of HR 1022 don’t want to stop criminals. They want to invent new ones out of people like you and me with the simple stroke of a pen. They will do anything they can to make it impossible for more and more American citizens to legally own any firearm.

Realizing that what I wrote catered to this insidious attack on fellow gun owners has, one might say, “awakened a sleeping giant within me, and filled him with a terrible resolve.”

I made a mistake. But those who would use my remarks to further their despicable political agenda have made a bigger one. I hope to become their worst nightmare. I admit I was wrong. They insist they are right.

Enclosed, you will find a check that is intended to be used to fight and defeat HR 1022. I also hope it inspires other gun owners to “do as I do, not as I say.”

I’m putting my money where my mouth should have been, and where my heart and soul have always been. I know the Second Amendment isn’t about hunting and never has been. My blunder was in thinking that by working to protect precious hunting rights I was doing enough. I promise it will never happen again.

I don’t know what lies over the horizon for me. I am not ready for the rocking chair.

I’m going to devote every ounce of my energy to this battle. I will remind my fellow hunters that we are first, gun owners. Whether we like it or not, our former apathy and prejudices may place that which we love, hunting, in jeopardy. I will educate fellow outdoorsmen who mistakenly think like I talked, even if I have to visit every hunting camp and climb into every duck blind and deer stand in this country to get it done. I was wrong, and I’m going to make it right.


Sincerely,
Jim Zumbo

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Thylacine
March 5, 2007, 02:31 PM
Do you have a direct link to that?

Technosavant
March 5, 2007, 02:33 PM
That is exactly what I was hoping he'd do.

Zumbo ticked me off in a royal way, but as far as I am concerned, he's ok for now. We'll get more done by educating, forgiving, and pulling together than we will by shooting the wounded.

ArfinGreebly
March 5, 2007, 02:33 PM
Looks like our man is tougher than his age might suggest.

Enclosed, you will find a check that is intended to be used to fight and defeat HR 1022. I also hope it inspires other gun owners to “do as I do, not as I say.”

Now there's some actual pith.

Keep it up, Jim.

BigG
March 5, 2007, 02:33 PM
Bravo! I'm glad Jim Zumbo has awakened. :>

Sharp Phil
March 5, 2007, 02:36 PM
Much as I would like very much to believe him, I have a hard time swallowing the idea that he experienced such a total, overnight conversion to paragon of Second Amendment Rights Advocacy. You can't write a blog like the one he wrote, with so much vehemence and loaded language, without truly believing what you're saying. How do you then suddenly smack your head with coulda-hadda-V8 vigor and exclaim that you were so very wrong that you're going to fight for truth, justice, and the American way from this moment forward?

I don't know, maybe I'm just cynical.

TexasRifleman
March 5, 2007, 02:39 PM
OK, so enough on Zumbo for now, who else is sending a check to a pro 2A; ANY pro 2A group this week in support of this awakening we have ALL seen in the last few weeks?

Or is going back to the grumble grumble, too much junk mail, grumble grumble?

I'll start. 30 bucks extra is on the way to Texas State Rifle Association and another 30 bucks to CCRKBA (Just in case someone doesn't know CCRKBA is SAFs lobbying arm since SAF can't lobby directly).

I don't know, maybe I'm just cynical.

Prolly so. Not directed at you necessarily because I haven't looked, but every time there has been a Zumbo post since the thing started there has been a line of folks posting nothing but calls for his head with nothing constructive to say at all. Surely there's been enough of that?


ETA from AlaskaEric in the post below (with a small change):
the anti rights folks are mobilizing as we write and they are smelling blood.

Amen brother, and they are not sidetracked by internal BS either.

AlaskaErik
March 5, 2007, 02:45 PM
I don't know, maybe I'm just cynical.

While I was extremely upset with Mr. Zumbo at first, I'm seeing enough contriteness on his part to be willing to move forward and start forgiving. We need to all come together because the Democrats are mobilizing as we write and they are smelling blood. All gun owners need to be part of the upcoming battle to defeat their nefarious gun confiscation legislation.

shield20
March 5, 2007, 02:48 PM
He had no experience with these types of rifles - now he does!

The error he made was due to ignorance - of his subject, of the people associated with these rifles, of hunting, of the antis, etc.

He is now a more well-rounded individual, knowing the capabilities, and limitations of ARs (atleast).

Good for him - and probably good for us.

Wesson Smith
March 5, 2007, 02:56 PM
With the caveat that those truly were Jim's words,
published and verified, I say let's stop beating the
proverbial dead horse. The guy appears to have owned
up to his mistake, more than once. Forgiveness is a
powerful and healing human characteristic. With that
having been said, the larger issue with our so-called
"assault weapons" is that most of us do not own them
for hunting purposes. This is where I still get the
heebee-geebees regarding the mending of fences here.
I cherish my RKBA primarily for two reasons: 1. target and
recreational shooting. 2. The defense of my family and friends.
This issue, at the expense of repeated appeals to the purist
hunting community seems to continue to fall through the
cracks. In any event, I respectfully ask that we let this guy
salvage his reputation and begin anew. He appears to
be up to the task, and there is nothing gained by continuing
to kick him while he is down. Just my 2 cents.

CNYCacher
March 5, 2007, 02:57 PM
Much as I would like very much to believe him, I have a hard time swallowing the idea that he experienced such a total, overnight conversion to paragon of Second Amendment Rights Advocacy. You can't write a blog like the one he wrote, with so much vehemence and loaded language, without truly believing what you're saying. How do you then suddenly smack your head with coulda-hadda-V8 vigor and exclaim that you were so very wrong that you're going to fight for truth, justice, and the American way from this moment forward?

People can change.

If he really lives up to his promises, I, for one, will forgive him.

To Mr. Zumbo, if you are reading this: You are saying all the right things, but it is actions, not words. Please live up to your promised retribution. You will not buy back your credibility but through sweat and blood, not words and dollars. Make those speeches you say you will make. Crawl into those duck blinds. Educate all you can. You claim you will be a liaison to the hunting community, do it! We will welcome you back if you walk the walk.

esheato
March 5, 2007, 03:05 PM
I want to confess something.

I'm a gun owner. In fact, I probably own more than most. I pride myself on the quality of my firearms and my skills using them. I spend every weekend, rain or shine, at the range. Defensive pistol, shotgun games, hunting, long range rifle, gun skool...you name it and I do it.

While I'm an NRA member, I don't do activism. I don't write letters. I don't contribute money. I don't call my congressman...in fact, I don't even know how all that stuff works.

I just want to be left alone with my hobby. I don't worry about what bills are proposed. I don't keep track of what's going on. Hell, I barely vote.

I don't tell people what to do and I don't expect to be told what to do. I just want to shoot.

I've been following this Zumbo mess since the beginning. I haven't commented on it because I felt that everything that needed saying was already said. I also didn't want to be quick to judge. Initially, I was mad just like everyone else. I'm a fairly forgiving person though, and I thought that if anyone could help him, it would be Ted.

Reading this letter, it's obvious that Zumbo's eyes have been opened. I forgive the guy. While what he did was blatantly wrong, I believe he has come around. I would share a campfire with him.

I can also appreciate people that act rather than talk. My donation to CCRKBA has been sent in.

Ed

Thylacine
March 5, 2007, 03:05 PM
We will welcome you back if you walk the walk.
I agree- 100% IMO Gun owners in general can be a very accommodating group. We are so diverse and use such a wide range of firearms, we have to be. :)
I have linked and reposted this across the street.
Like I said there, it is a good start.

Trip20
March 5, 2007, 03:14 PM
Bravo, Jim Zumbo. :)

SoCalShooter
March 5, 2007, 03:21 PM
Hopefully with Zumbo's conversion and hopefully an epiphany that he talked about in his letter. Its now time to unify the community and create a concerted effort against those that would disarm us in the effort to "MAKE US SAFER". I'll just let it go for now but I have no intention to forgive and forget. Hopefully his followers will do the same.

halvey
March 5, 2007, 03:27 PM
I believe Ted Nugent set him straight as Zumbro says. This has been a good subject for hunters and shooters alike. In the end, it will work out in our favor.

That said, he doesn't deserve his career or sponsorship back. There are consequences for your actions.

geekWithA.45
March 5, 2007, 03:28 PM
Jim Zumbo had a choice.

He could have crawled into a hole and retired, cursing bitterly those gun nuts who ended his career.

He could have pandered to the Fudds, who were supporting him in his former position, and taken his place as King of the Fudds, and tool of the Bradys.

But he did not.

He chose the hard path to righteousness.

He awoke, and took a stand, a stand that to my eye earns him the right to earn his way back into our good graces.


A lesser man would have failed utterly, but Zumbo, knocked off his ass on the road to Damascus, had a long hard talk with himself.

It takes a big man to do that.

Let's us be big men and not slam the door in the face of one who returns to us with his hat humbly in his hand, and every sign of penitence on his lips.

We will all be the better for it.

googol
March 5, 2007, 03:28 PM
Any damage that Zumbo did to the cause of firearms rights is dwarfed by the horrible impression made by many in the gun rights community. The explosive reaction to Zumbo's statement simply confirmed the opinion of many people that gun owners are irrational extremists who keep their hatred on a hair trigger. To cast out a long-time supporter and ruin his career over a single episode was a wild overreaction.

acdodd
March 5, 2007, 03:29 PM
OK He was vilified and distroyed by all of us.
I think it would be the right thing to do to email him and show our support for his new efforts on our behalf.
If he can close the divide between hunters and non hunting gun owners it will be the best think to happen.
I will try to email him and thank him for his effort.
AC

bogie
March 5, 2007, 03:32 PM
I don't think that Zumbo's career was ruined. I think that it _was_ turned in a completely different direction.

And we'll be better for it.

I'm going to write to Outdoor Life, and ask that they consider him as a guest columnist, with the primary subject being our highly diverse gun culture. He is a damn fine writer, and I'm sure that they didn't really wanna let him go.

Anyone with me?

Trip20
March 5, 2007, 03:32 PM
The explosive reaction to Zumbo's statement simply confirmed the opinion of many people that gun owners are irrational extremists who keep their hatred on a hair trigger.

Nope. It simply confirmed how people will act when allowed to speak under the anonymity of a screen name on the internet.

I can show you many-a-forum whose membership is most certainly not of the "gun owner" variety, and you would enjoy the same hair-triggered irrational behavior.

Justin
March 5, 2007, 03:35 PM
Good on Zumbo. He's making all the right moves.

spooney
March 5, 2007, 03:35 PM
I for one am very impressed with his actions since the second apology. He needs to keep it up and continue to spread the word to other hunters.

Speer
March 5, 2007, 03:48 PM
Realizing that what I wrote catered to this insidious attack on fellow gun owners has, one might say, “awakened a sleeping giant within me, and filled him with a terrible resolve.”

Damn. Zumbo sure didn't just roll over, did he? This should be interesting.

acdodd
March 5, 2007, 03:53 PM
I just renewed my membership in CCRKBA for another 5 years.
I told them it was due to Zumbo.
AC

1911Tuner
March 5, 2007, 04:09 PM
Mr. Zumbo's awakening may have come like mine did in the form of a mega-dollar Westley Richards double .600 Nitro. I often wondered what anybody would want with such a thing...and then I was priveleged to fire two rounds through it. At about 50 bucks a whack, the owner was both financially blest and generous.

I touched off the first round...:what: :eek:

Then I understood. I've coveted the thing ever since. :D

Dave Workman
March 5, 2007, 04:09 PM
About the "link." Gosh, I'm sorry, I don't have that right now but I'm guessing it will be posted soon on the CCRKBA website, which is www.ccrkba.org.

I will say this. I've known Zumbo for maybe 20 years, maybe more. This is NOT the guy that the Brady Bunch wants to have pissed off at them so much that he has become a gun rights activist.

I've spoken to Zumbo a few times since this erupted. He knows he stepped in it up to his neck and he really has had something of an epiphany. He says it is his intention to right the wrong he committed, and I believe him.

Cheeseybacon
March 5, 2007, 04:11 PM
While I am relieved sorta that Zumbo has retracted his statements and supposedly "seen the light" I too am sorta suspicious as to why he did a total 180 and instantly became an adamant 2nd ammendment advocate practically overnight. Sure, maybe Ted really did show him the light. Maybe he really has been converted, maybe he really does see the the error in his ways. Maybe he honestly does believe that what he did was wrong and that the 2nd ammendment and consequently hunting is in danger. Or maybe this is all just "damage control" that is necessary to salvage his reputation.

Whichever the case may be, I don't think any of us should pass judgement on Zumbo yet until we've had some time to examine what actions he's taken over the long term. If he still continues to maintain his present actions and frame of mind years from now, then to me that says he was genuine about redeeming himself and geninuely concerned with the 2nd ammendment. However, if his present actions are a merely a passing phase, done only to get everyone off of his back before he resumes his previous existence in 2nd ammendment oblivion after everything has blown over, then Zumbo truly deserves everything that has been inflicted on him thus far.

For now at least, I think it's too early to tell.

Waitone
March 5, 2007, 04:22 PM
I hope the change is permanent and sincere.

Perhaps Mr. Zumbo could adopt the role of instructor of second amendment issues to the hunting community since there is evidently a lack of appreciation of the finer points of firearms freedom.

A second role Mr. Zumbo could well assume is that of combatant against pro-ban groups. . . .the very same groups that will preserve and transmit his unfortunate blog.
Any damage that Zumbo did to the cause of firearms rights is dwarfed by the horrible impression made by many in the gun rights community. The explosive reaction to Zumbo's statement simply confirmed the opinion of many people that gun owners are irrational extremists who keep their hatred on a hair trigger. To cast out a long-time supporter and ruin his career over a single episode was a wild overreaction.I characterize the reaction as the shooting community having reached a tipping point. We have no choice but put up with that nonsense out of government. We do not have to put up with it out of one of our own and it was our own who caught it full face.

MattC
March 5, 2007, 04:29 PM
I've sent a letter to the editor of OL expressing my gratitude and support of Mr. Zumbo's turn, as well as encouraging Mr. Zumbo to make a strong push towards the popular media to let him say a few more things--this time with a little more education.

How did he make a sudden 180 spin, and should we believe it?

When you get a punch inthe face like he did, you either open your eyes or cower and cry. His natural reaction, like all of ours would be, was defensive, as shown in his first written apology. But instead of cowering, he opened his eyes and put his fists up. Then, instead of taking a swing back at us, he looked around and realized he'd earned it. Fight's over. Let's have a drink and talk about what's next.

What's next is using his energy as a catalyst for ourselves and others to show unified support for the rights made explicit in the Second Ammendment.

1911Tuner
March 5, 2007, 04:38 PM
Quote:

>Then, instead of taking a swing back at us, he looked around and realized he'd earned it. Fight's over. Let's have a drink and talk about what's next.<
************

I'll buy that. Welcome back, Mr. Zumbo. Let us proceed.

Thylacine
March 5, 2007, 05:38 PM
Posted by: Dave Workman
About the "link." Gosh, I'm sorry, I don't have that right now but I'm guessing it will be posted soon on the CCRKBA website, which is www.ccrkba.org.
It wasn't posted there when I asked, that's why I asked.

I do hope it will be posted soon. There are and will be those that doubt the authenticity of this letter until credible sources can be linked.

Dave Workman
March 5, 2007, 06:01 PM
Thylacine:

I've just learned that it will be posted on www.KeepAndBearArms.com, probably tomorrow, which is owned by CCRKBA and the Second Amendment Foundation. My bad..thought it was going to go to the other website.

But the text of the letter as posted here is legit, if that's what you're wondering. I've got a copy on my desk, and I spoke to Zumbo for an interview.

44Brent
March 5, 2007, 06:17 PM
Dave, any possibility that you could get Jim to go whack Bob fRicker for us?

Also, cross-posted to http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1795719/posts

Molon Labe
March 5, 2007, 06:22 PM
I have a hard time swallowing the idea that he experienced such a total, overnight conversion
A near-death experience can have a profound & immediate effect on a man.

GLOCK19XDSC
March 5, 2007, 06:26 PM
Good on 'im. I'm glad he's now fighting the good fight regardless of past mistakes.

Hawk
March 5, 2007, 06:33 PM
Realizing that what I wrote catered to this insidious attack on fellow gun owners has, one might say, “awakened a sleeping giant within me, and filled him with a terrible resolve.”

I made a mistake. But those who would use my remarks to further their despicable political agenda have made a bigger one. I hope to become their worst nightmare

My personal bet is that he could indeed prove to be their worst nightmare.

This is a sorry day for Sarah and Tom and I derive comfort from that observation.

Sharp Phil
March 5, 2007, 06:40 PM
The explosive reaction to Zumbo's statement simply confirmed the opinion of many people that gun owners are irrational extremists who keep their hatred on a hair trigger. To cast out a long-time supporter and ruin his career over a single episode was a wild overreaction.

That's utter crap. The "explosive raction" confirms that gun owners will ardently defend their Second Amendment rights. That's not "hatred" and I resent the assertion that it is. As for being a "long-time supporter," nobody who's been a "long-time supporter" of gun rights calls for gun bans.

HuntCast
March 5, 2007, 06:45 PM
As for being a "long-time supporter," nobody who's been a "long-time supporter" of gun rights calls for gun bans.


Not so, Sharp Phil,
He didn't call for them to be banned, as has been pointed out THOUSANDS of times (even though some close their eyes every time it is) but he called for their ban in HUNTING. There are LOTS of guns banned from hunting. Every state has rules on what you can and can't use.
I'm not saying it wasn't a stupid thing to say, but get your facts straight.

Brian Dale
March 5, 2007, 06:46 PM
The man's character shows.

Good.

Stevie-Ray
March 5, 2007, 06:52 PM
My personal bet is that he could indeed prove to be their worst nightmare.
This is a sorry day for Sarah and Tom and I derive comfort from that observation.Agreed. The "sleeping giant" is likely going to be our mouthpiece with one booming voice. I personally couldn't be happier about that. I figured he'd go whole hog once he saw the light, and that's the type that makes the best and loudest activists.

MikeFF
March 5, 2007, 07:11 PM
Its better to have him With us than against us, In my opinion he seems like now he is on a mission, We will see how it turns out.

Baba Louie
March 5, 2007, 07:13 PM
Jim Zumbo's hoof 'n mouth episode and renaissance awakening should also be the catalyst for ALL American Gun Owners to awaken, arise and speaking together as a thundering herd, let each and every politician in DC and in each state capitol hear, learn and know what the Democrats found out in November of '94.

Freedom is not to be infringed. Those that trifle with it can and will lose. Like Mr. Zumbo, one or two of the intelligent politico's will learn from their mistakes by stopping and undoing any damage they may have in mind.

'Twas a good letter Mr. Z penned. I'd rather have him on our side using all the tools he is able to muster helping out. Use of the "Pen... Mightier than a Sword", combined with the internet... could be an excellent way to let our beloved elected representatives know exactly how we feel.

Well, that and money.

Jeff Timm
March 5, 2007, 07:17 PM
Reminds me of a classic Terrorist. First machinegun a bunch of children. Then surrender and demand a lawyer.

Geoff
Who is not a terrorist, but owns a couple of black pistols, my Assault Weapon (according to FL law) has a wood stock.

grampster
March 5, 2007, 07:20 PM
Well, I just joined CCRKBA. Signed up for 5 years. I think Mr. Zumbo has seen the light and his actions are speaking up for him. If he truly was other than a fellow who was ill informed, I'm sure he would not be taking the steps he is. At his age, and with the income he has earned, I'm sure he's not hurting financially. I'm sure he has many, many friends so his time certainly would continue to be well spent. He didn't need to react the way he ultimately did. Just think for a minute what bloviating and denial we get from a typical politician when they are caught with their pants down. (literally and figuratively :D )

He has reacted to the outcry from his words exactly the way a man of honor would act when confronted with the monumental error in judgment that he made. He didn't have to, you know. He could have reacted harshly and lashed back. He didn't.

To those who are suspicious of him I say that I understand your feelings. But I think it's time to cease castigating him and offering to at least quiet down and watch and wait if that is what you need to do.

Sounds to me he's seen the light. There are a lot of people who are his friends who were seriously angered and offended by his words, but defend his character. That says much about the man. It's tough to be knocked down a peg when you are a famous, or at least quite a public persona. Usually guys like that have monumental egos and are unable to humble themselves.

Often times a lot of good comes out of a bad situation. Let's see to it that it works out that way.

Dick

Trigger Tamer
March 5, 2007, 07:25 PM
Zumbo's sin was essentially ignorance, stubbornly held for two prior "apologies."

Ignorance is easily cured, and once cured, can easily be forgiven.

I hop he can explain to millions of ignorant hunters what the second amendment is really about. And then motivate them to vote.

I believe he "gets it" now, and deserves my forgiveness and acceptance.

JWarren
March 5, 2007, 07:28 PM
I was one of Zumbo's strongest critics. I'm ready to let it go. I said all along that I wanted to see ACTION behind his words, and I think we are seeing the beginnings of this.

I truly belive that he has been educated and understands what we face as gunowers-- not just EBR owners. Let's give him a chance to do the work he is doing. We may well have developed a strong voice in Zumbo.



John

davhina
March 5, 2007, 07:29 PM
Sick of Zumbo:barf:

Guntalk
March 5, 2007, 07:33 PM
If Dave Workman says it's so . . . it's so. Workman is not only one the finest JOURNALISTS in the firearms field, he also works for SAF and CCKRBA.

Good groups.

Truth in advertising -- I'm a director of CCKRBA.

Titan6
March 5, 2007, 07:57 PM
I hope the Bradys continue to quote his old Blog until they get busted publicly and drawn into an open debate.

Their craziness can't survive public scrutiny.

Pyrthroes
March 5, 2007, 07:59 PM
We respect Mr. Zumbo, both for his original mistake and his heartfelt retraction. As a Mountain Westerner, I grew up with guns. Firepower to me is less a weapon than a tool... but in Second Amendment terms, a Tool of Liberty, a guarantor of self-defense. NRA's generations-long battle impresses me tremendously, for it has stood the test of time. Surprising that Mr. Zumbo, for all his journalistic sophistication, could not have reflected a bit before rushing into print; but as he says, the left-ideological culture (which is all one ever hears reported) eventually becomes continuous background noise.

Why is that Congress can't ever pass a clarifying resolution, even legislation, mandating that "keep and bear arms" refers not to militia units, but to individuals' personal, private, inviolable right to hunt in season and defend themselves (am I ill-informed)? Mr. Zumbo speaks and apologizes with honorable intentions. We congratulate him, admire his modesty, and sincerely wish him well.

GaryL
March 5, 2007, 08:03 PM
I will remind my fellow hunters that we are first, gun owners. Whether we like it or not, our former apathy and prejudices may place that which we love, hunting, in jeopardy. This is the very point some hunters never seem to get. If Zumbo can get this point across to the hunting and sporting community where he is known, it will make a big difference.

Brian Dale
March 5, 2007, 08:08 PM
Welcome to The High Road, Pyrthroes. :)

bogie
March 5, 2007, 08:17 PM
I have a friend who is a major olympic-calibre competitor. Was talking one day about a possible ban on something, and he said that he personally wasn't worried, because he'd just get a special permit, and could keep going.

So I told him "Hey, they're gonna call that thing of yours a sniper rifle, and they're going to want to melt it down."

He thought a minute or three, and did a 180. You just have to open the door for a lot of folks.

acdodd
March 5, 2007, 08:44 PM
Jim Zumbo could have debated the meaning of the word is. :D
Like someone most of us despise.
AC

grampster
March 5, 2007, 08:54 PM
Bogie,

Been watching and reading the sensible things you have been posting regarding Mr. Zumbo. You are a credit to the THR community. You comments are well said and thoughtful. I hope a lot of folks have been paying attention.

Guntalk,

Thank you for using your bully pulpit in a positive way. I sent a PM off to Mr. Workman regarding Mr. Zumbo asking him to pass along to Z the fact that his response to his blunder has been appreciated. It is refreshing to see a paradigm occur. I also just joined CCKABA. Sent in a check for a 5 year membership.

Dick

antsi
March 5, 2007, 09:20 PM
--quote---
Much as I would like very much to believe him, I have a hard time swallowing the idea that he experienced such a total, overnight conversion to paragon of Second Amendment Rights Advocacy.
---------

I can't read minds, so I don't know what's going on in Zumbo's head.

However, in general, I would say that one of the greatest barriers to learning, or to changing one's mind when one is wrong, is one's own pridefulness and arrogance. When one gets spanked down hard, one becomes humble and those are often the most "teachable" moments.

cpileri
March 5, 2007, 09:26 PM
Maybe we should get him to use that mighty roar of his and comment on the fact that Illinois just DID ban hunting shotguns. (*)


C-


(*): note, language is so broad "any shotgun capable of accepting more than 5 rounds" or something to that effect. CAPABLE: as one writer pointed out, How many aguila mini-shells does your 870 hold?

bclark1
March 5, 2007, 09:32 PM
As much as I don't think his sponsors should take him back, he's managed to turn a bad situation into a noble apology. I thought his Ted Nugent get-together was PR, but if Zumbo can serve as a teacher to correct the views of other people who share his misconception, then some good may come. Whether or not his newfound sensibilities are genuine doesn't matter; the point is that if he is "not ready for the rocking chair," he must now be willing to be our staunchest ally, and reach out to talk some sense into the "American Hunters and Shooters Association" types. I realized early on in my love of shooting that we stand and fall together, and a shooter that serves as an ally to the Bradys and Clintons by so much as criticizing another's lawful use of arms can be as damaging to all of our rights as anyone actively opposing the Second Amendment. We simply can't allow those with no respect for our rights to pour more muck on the already slippery slope. Here's to old dogs learning new tricks, and spreading the gospel.

ArfinGreebly
March 5, 2007, 10:12 PM
Welcome.

Why is that Congress can't ever pass a clarifying resolution, even legislation, mandating that "keep and bear arms" refers not to militia units, but to individuals' personal, private, inviolable right to hunt in season and defend themselves (am I ill-informed)?

To clarify: the Second Amendment is not, in any way, at all, even a little bit, even peripherally, about hunting.

It is about individuals keeping themselves, their families, their communities, and their nation secure. It is about keeping the government's natural inclination to overstep its boundaries in check.

Let us not, in any discussion of the Second Amendment, mention hunting.

Hunting is a sport, a recreation, a managed and permitted activity, not a right.

The right to own a gun is protected; the right to protect oneself with it is likewise protected.

The right to hunt with it is not.

The fact that hunting is a time-honored tradition -- and worth protecting, in my mind -- has no bearing on whether one may own arms.

The right to bear arms is unconditional.

* * *

Note: there is a bill currently in the works to remove the "sporting purposes" clauses from one or more laws. The "sporting purposes" clauses were inserted into these laws to "legitimize" hunting while drawing attention away from the fact that gun ownership is quite simply a RIGHT.

The "sporting" dodge is a popular and dishonest attack angle meant to cause a rift between different portions of the gun-owning community.

Any time someone offers you the "sporting purposes" subterfuge, just slap them upside the head with a brick. Any kind of brick. No need to use a sporting brick.

Buckskinner
March 6, 2007, 12:06 AM
I grew up in a gun household. All the male ancestors of my father's line carried guns in the woods and some on battlefields.

I NEVER EVER heard about the BOR or 2nd Amendment, and how it pertained to our guns.

NEVER!!

Only after I shook off my brainwashed socialist student tendencies did I put it together.

The Bill of Rights is a sacred document. The Second Amendment is about the "god-given" right of self defense, especially from tyranny and oppression.

CU74
March 6, 2007, 12:46 AM
I follow the "Zumbo Incident and Aftermath" on this and other forums and web sites with interest. I follow progress of gun legislation, both pro and con, with great interest.

Unlike a lot of gun owners, I have no't bothered to offer my comments or opinions on the "Zumbo Incindent". You folks seem to have that covered quite well.

Also unlike a lot of gun owners, I have, (among other things):
- Made a contribution to the NRA's ILA
- Joined the KSRA and Second Amendment Foundation
- Sent letters to my CongressWeasel
- Sent email messages to members of the Kansas House, (re HR 2528)
- Taken the NRA's basic handgun class with my wife, until now a non-shooter. She got a lot out of it and plans to continue with handgun training and get her concealed carry license. (I got to shoot a couple of guns I hadn't shot before.)
- Made a contribution to the Second Amendment Foundation

I'm just getting started.

I know that some of you who are being proactive too, and I thank you. As for the rest of you, what are you doing to protect our right to keep and bear arms??


Note for anyone who gets p*$$ed off by the above to the point that you "need" to write a rebuttal: Write to your CongressWeasel about HB 1022 instead of posting here for me to read. That way you won't be wasting your time, (I'm not coming back to this thread:p ) and just might be helping us all.

bogie
March 6, 2007, 01:50 AM
Think strategy - A lot of democrats KNOW that gun control has cost them a lot of elections, from 1994 on... They're already hesitant to mess with it.

Instead of identifying _just_ HR1022, suggest to them that they'll be best served if they avoid supporting gun control in general. The "guerilla activists" among you can word the note as if it is coming from a fellow democrat who is concerned about them backing a vote-costing losing issue.

If we're lucky, it won't even make it out of committee...

SD_AZ_OK_TX
March 6, 2007, 02:56 AM
ES wrote above: "I want to confess something.

I'm a gun owner. In fact, I probably own more than most. I pride myself on the quality of my firearms and my skills using them. I spend every weekend, rain or shine, at the range. Defensive pistol, shotgun games, hunting, long range rifle, gun skool...you name it and I do it.

While I'm an NRA member, I don't do activism. I don't write letters. I don't contribute money. I don't call my congressman...in fact, I don't even know how all that stuff works.

I just want to be left alone with my hobby. I don't worry about what bills are proposed. I don't keep track of what's going on. Hell, I barely vote.

I don't tell people what to do and I don't expect to be told what to do. I just want to shoot.

I've been following this Zumbo mess since the beginning. I haven't commented on it because I felt that everything that needed saying was already said. I also didn't want to be quick to judge. Initially, I was mad just like everyone else. I'm a fairly forgiving person though, and I thought that if anyone could help him, it would be Ted.

Reading this letter, it's obvious that Zumbo's eyes have been opened. I forgive the guy. While what he did was blatantly wrong, I believe he has come around. I would share a campfire with him.

I can also appreciate people that act rather than talk. My donation to CCRKBA has been sent in."

I am afraid you described me exactly, ES, yet today I have contributed to both the CCRKBA and joined the NRA. If as many others do this as it appears may be happening, Jim's screw up will have blessed us all!

I expect to see more of JZ in the coming months, but with an entirely different angle and a renewed fervor. He will no longer appear as the privileged "hunting royalty" most of us can only envy, he will be a soldier in the trenches fighting for every one of us. He has the talent, he has the gifts, and now I believe he has the dedication.

Robert Hairless
March 6, 2007, 03:52 AM
ArfinGreebly:

You are an intelligent, articulate person. I gain from reading your messages even on the rare occasions when I disagree with them.

esheato
March 6, 2007, 04:45 AM
I am afraid you described me exactly, ES, yet today I have contributed to both the CCRKBA and joined the NRA. If as many others do this as it appears may be happening, Jim's screw up will have blessed us all!

I expect to see more of JZ in the coming months, but with an entirely different angle and a renewed fervor. He will no longer appear as the privileged "hunting royalty" most of us can only envy, he will be a soldier in the trenches fighting for every one of us. He has the talent, he has the gifts, and now I believe he has the dedication.

I'm glad you felt inspired to donate. Please notify those organizations why you decided to contribute. Let them know what they're doing right.

I"m proud to be a part of this forum.

Ed

Deavis
March 6, 2007, 06:25 AM
The explosive reaction to Zumbo's statement simply confirmed the opinion of many people that gun owners are irrational extremists who keep their hatred on a hair trigger

I edited this for correctness.

The explosive reaction to Zumbo's statement simply confirmed the opinion of many people that gun owners are extremely commited to the principles of individual rights, commitment which they keep on a hair trigger

Don't confuse emotion with principles. Non-hunting gun owners do more for hunting than hunters ever could. Who pays all those excise taxes that go to keeping hunting grounds alive? It sure isn't the minority of gun owners who hunt. It is the rest of us who are buying guns and ammo in year long quantities the average hunter wouldn't shoot in a lifetime.

KMKeller
March 6, 2007, 07:29 AM
I'm with you Bogie. Seems to me that Zumbo is doing the right thing and showing what I would expect to see, contrition wise. Now is indeed the time to forgive and NOT forget and put some support behind him. He's walking the right path, let's give him a positive nudge.

1911 guy
March 6, 2007, 08:09 AM
I'm one who called for his head when he made the comments. I canceled a magazine subscription or two and told everyone I knew who read those mags or owned a gun.

I've also made some mistakes in my time and know that getting knocked on your butt will sometimes teach you a thing or two. I think that's what happened to Mr. Zumbo. He was caught up in the mindset of "they won't take my A5 or Model 700, what do I care?" This dust-up has shown him that a lot of other folk have done his fighting for him until now and he's gonna settle up. Just my opinion.

I'd like to see him worked back into the media. He's an articulate writer when he puts his mind to it. I should know, I've been reading him for years. He might be of the most service to the cause by writing in the "sporting" rags rather than the "gun" rags. Someone who's had a recent epiphany will reach out to the ignorant with a zeal most of us have lost.

In short, this letter has a ring to it that the first "apology" didn't. I'm willing to bet that the shooting session with Nugent was only a part of what went on in his life and head in the last week. This letter has the sound of a man who's been wrong, realizes it and is setting out to make a change. As long as he holds the course he's set himself on here, I'll support him as ardently as I criticized him before.

feedthehogs
March 6, 2007, 08:14 AM
If Dave Workman says it's so . . . it's so. Workman is not only one the finest JOURNALISTS

There you have it. Another outdoor journalist who says its so.
Isn't that what started this whole mess?

Sorry but I was in the radio and print game for a number of years and never saw a journalist who wasn't willing to compromise their beliefs and standards for a sponsors, advertisers pay check.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pickup a gun rag magazine and see who gets positive reviews on junk and who gets ignored. Its closely related to the advertisers, hint.

My whole point is to think for yourselves, educate yourselves and quit taking the opinions of so called experts on anything. We've been sold down the road more than once.

TexasRifleman
March 6, 2007, 08:21 AM
There you have it. Another outdoor journalist who says its so.

You truly have no idea what you are talking about do you?
You have few friends more in your corner on RKBA issues than Mr Workman I can assure you.

I'll be nice for once, which is REALLY hard for me, and just post some things for you.

Go read the following few things and come back better informed perhaps.
These are a few of my favorites, I hope he doesn't mind me posting the links.

http://www.ccrkba.org/pub/rkba/press-releases/oped-assault-weapon-fraud.htm

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rkba-16.html

http://www.ccrkba.org/pub/rkba/press-releases/ALAN_DAVE-Kerry_Assaults_Intelligence.htm

Sistema1927
March 6, 2007, 08:26 AM
I made a mistake. But those who would use my remarks to further their despicable political agenda have made a bigger one. I hope to become their worst nightmare. I admit I was wrong. They insist they are right.

Could be.

Think about how ex-smokers and ex-drinkers sometimes become the most strident in fighting against their former vices. It might just turn out that this ex-Fudd becomes a champion of life, liberty, and the American way.

CharlesHeller
March 6, 2007, 01:54 PM
Dear Mr. FeedThe Hogs -

You have just met a person in the radio business whose beliefs are not for sale or rent at any price. I ONLY put sponsors on the radio whose quality I can verify, and will cancel the ad of ANY sponsor who does not live up to his word. I have been at it for 8 years, and my shows are growing.
www.libertywatchradio.com/listen

I have known Dave Workman for 5 years, and the one thing I know to be true about the guy is that he is absolutely of his word. If the man says it, there is simply no cause to disbelieve it.

I'll bet Dave could make a LOT more money doing technical writing for some slick publication, but he chooses his employment in the milieu of the Right To Keep And Bear Arms. That speaks to character!

Respectfully,
Charles Heller
Libertywatch Radio Network
www.libertywatchradio.com/bokings
charles@libertywatchradio.com

"FeedTheHogs" said: "Sorry but I was in the radio and print game for a number of years and never saw a journalist who wasn't willing to compromise their beliefs and standards for a sponsors, advertisers pay check."

Svolich
March 6, 2007, 05:20 PM
I live in California. They aren't legal here NOW.

Neither are AR-15's. Or .50 caliber single shot rifles. Or high cap magazines for your Glock or 10-22. You want a new Colt Gold Cup Trophy? Forget it, you have to buy it used - if someone will sell one to you.

The city I live in, population 300,000, used to have 5 gun shops. One had an indoor range. We were down to one, then the city council made gun shops here illegal. They moved out of state. So forgive me if I'm feeling less than charitable.

I don't like hunting. I don't hunt. I don't have any reason to support hunters. The nearest hunting land is a 5 hour drive away - assuming there's no traffic. Whenever some 12 year old kid is shot by his father in a hunting accident, it's a stain on every responsible gun owner.

But despite that I support hunting. I always have and I always will. Zumbo wanted to toss the rest of us to the wolves because he had a bad day.

What's he going to do when he actually has to make an effort to support the rest of us?

When I was growing up my dad and I built a significant collection of S&W J frames. I had a mdl 36 with a 2 digit serial number. A mdl 60 with a 1 digit number. 2 mdl 50's. 2 mdl 36-1's. When S&W cut their deal, I sold them all. I'll never own another Smith. I found I didn't need to.

We don't need Zumbo. There are 10,000 writers just as good as he is. Some of them are on THR. The law of supply and demand is immutable - someone will step up and take his place. We miss Elmer Kieth and Skeeter Skelton, we miss Jeff Cooper. But life goes on. It will go on without Zumbo.

If he goes and does good work, via con dios. But he won't be doing it with my money.

HuntCast
March 6, 2007, 06:08 PM
I don't have any reason to support hunters
Really? I mean....... really?

donkee
March 6, 2007, 07:24 PM
How many of us don't hunt, but still support the hunting cause? I know I do and feel sold out when the fudds pull their elitist stuff? Just a stab in the back by a bunch of selfish fudds.

That said, if Mr. Zumbo sticks to his guns and starts supporting all of the gun owners in this country, not just the fudds, then he'll have my support too. A good first effort have been shown, if he keeps it up, all will be forgiven.....

Remember fudds, if we non-hunters loose our guns, odds are we won't support you anymore since we will no longer have anything to loose. It should be one for all and all for one.....

Professor K
March 6, 2007, 07:30 PM
Looks like Zumbo's been reading THR.

Svolich
March 6, 2007, 07:58 PM
Quote:
I don't have any reason to support hunters

Really? I mean....... really?
__________________

Yeah, really.

I'm mostly vegitarian - as a practical matter, not a philosophical decision. I've never eaten anything that's been hunted, it's never been offered to me. My food is made in factories - OK, you can call them farms if you like.

If there were no hunting allowed anywhere in the world, it would not impact my life in any way.

Think of some human activity that doesn't have anything to do with you. Like - do you watch Curling (you know, sliding the rock across the ice, and using brooms ahead of it?) No? would it impact your life if it were gone? That's what hunting is for me. It may be a part of your life, it's not part of mine.

But I think people should be free to slide rocks across the ice if they want.

I do supporting hunters. And I think we're in this fight together.

XavierBreath
March 6, 2007, 08:04 PM
I cannot forgive Jim Zumbo's words. I do not think his words should be forgiven, or forgotten.

Jim Zumbo has, however, earned my respect, and I wish him well.

meef
March 6, 2007, 08:25 PM
Seems to me that Zumbo is doing the right thing and showing what I would expect to see, contrition wise. Now is indeed the time to forgive and NOT forget and put some support behind him. He's walking the right path, let's give him a positive nudge.Well heck, it seems he's already had a positive Nuge.


:D

carpettbaggerr
March 6, 2007, 08:31 PM
Any damage that Zumbo did to the cause of firearms rights is dwarfed by the horrible impression made by many in the gun rights community. The explosive reaction to Zumbo's statement simply confirmed the opinion of many people that gun owners are irrational extremists who keep their hatred on a hair trigger. To cast out a long-time supporter and ruin his career over a single episode was a wild overreaction.Those who think all gunowners are irrational extremists need no confirmation of their beliefs.

The treatment Zumbo received is similar to what would happen if Norm Siegel started advocating burning books, as long as they were books on explosives, bombmaking, and terrorism.

And well deserved, too. Seems Brother Zumbo has seen the light now, though. I hope he can make a difference by preaching to those who believe hunting will shield their guns from legislation.


Hunting is a sport, a recreation, a managed and permitted activity, not a right.

The right to own a gun is protected; the right to protect oneself with it is likewise protected.

The right to hunt with it is not.Sure it is. It's one of those pesky unenumerated rights, secured by the 9th amendment. Just because it isn't mentioned by name, doesn't mean it isn't a right. Just like driving. Or smoking. Or eating too much, or staying up too late. It's not a privilege (as many would have you believe) but your right as an American.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

HuntCast
March 6, 2007, 08:46 PM
If there were no hunting allowed anywhere in the world, it would not impact my life in any way.

Other than the fact that within 1 week of the ban on hunting, your guns would be gone. Ask Australia how its working out.
If they don't want hunters to have guns, you damn well know they won't have any qualms about your "not needing" them.

The RKBA has nothing to do with hunting, but hunting is a buffer between ALL gun owners and people who can't/won't understand the constitution.

RocketMan
March 6, 2007, 09:06 PM
I don't think that Zumbo's career was ruined. I think that it _was_ turned in a completely different direction.

And we'll be better for it.

Bogie is on target, again.
Zumbo made a huge mistake. But big mistakes sometimes cause bigger epiphanies. Time will tell, and I'm willing to give Zumbo that time.
I have a hunch he will earn our respect and become one of our staunchest advocates in defense of the 2nd Amendment.

BB62
March 6, 2007, 10:28 PM
Dave Workman - I checked the CCRKBA website, and although I found no Zumbo story, I did find that they cannot (MULTIPLE TIMES) manage to spell the name CINCINNATI correctly. It makes them look ignorant.

It is not CiNNcinnati, but CiNcinnati.

Contact your buddy Alan G. and get him to correct not only the website, but also the PDF files referring to the event in Cincinnati later this year, will you?


Thanks,
BB62

Guntalk
March 6, 2007, 11:01 PM
Well, I can understand it. I can't spell worth a flip. If I look up a word, I'll need to look it up 10 minutes later.

As a result, I tend to be pretty understanding about spelling errors.

Besides, does anyone really care about Cinncinattiiee?

<grin>

ctdonath
March 6, 2007, 11:41 PM
Zumbo got the point. Glad to hear it.

hso
March 6, 2007, 11:53 PM
We may not forgive him or forget what he said, but a reformed Zumbo is someone that we can make common cause with if he's willing to work with the firearms community that he's most familiar with to raise allies for the 2A.

Think of it this way. The lepper that is converted and healed is more effective at teaching the truth to his former fellows than the squeeky clean idealogue who never spoke to them before. If Zumbo is going to educate hunters to the danger from the gun control proponents we should help as much as possible. Sure, never forget, perhaps never forgive, but don't throw the opportunity to get converts away for his past sins.

4v50 Gary
March 6, 2007, 11:56 PM
Think twice, post once. I sincerely hope that Zumbo learned his lesson.

ArfinGreebly
March 7, 2007, 12:17 AM
Hunting is a sport, a recreation, a managed and permitted activity, not a right.

The right to own a gun is protected; the right to protect oneself with it is likewise protected.

The right to hunt with it is not.

Sure it is. It's one of those pesky unenumerated rights, secured by the 9th amendment. Just because it isn't mentioned by name, doesn't mean it isn't a right. Just like driving. Or smoking. Or eating too much, or staying up too late. It's not a privilege (as many would have you believe) but your right as an American.

Excellent point.

I stand corrected.

While the right to hunt is not enumerated, it is nonetheless part of the human heritage.

It is arguably a natural right -- though not one of the normally "attributed" rights. Rights are often expressed as "what no one may prevent you from doing" and less often as "what you may do as long as you don't encroach upon another's."

In the context of the Second Amendment, however, it is a mistake to intrude hunting into the discussion, in the same way it would be a mistake to intrude plinking and target shooting.

The (enumerated) right is the keep and bear arms, not to do any particular thing with them.

Thanks for the additional clarity.

swingset
March 7, 2007, 12:58 AM
I've been incredibly hard on Zumbo (and Tom, and the Nuge), but I'll say this. If Zumbo's saying the right things - even if deep down he isn't a believer, it's just as good as if he were.

He's not a politician, he can't enact laws, or make bans. His sole power is through his words. So, if those words are now the kind that educate and stand against the anti-gunners, then it's mission accomplished.

I'll always have a hard time believing that he didn't know a good deal more about this issue before he spouted off, or that his real regret is speaking and not thinking what he did, but if he's pointed in the right direction and keeps moving that way, I'll let my vitriol go....and that's quite a leap. I love my focused rage. ;)

beaucoup ammo
March 7, 2007, 08:59 AM
CCRKBA must have done a mass mailing, as I've just received my first correspondence from them.

Yes, I'm sending them $50 today. It takes money to wage a war..and this is just that..war. As one voice in the wilderness, I urge my fellow Pro RKBA Americans to send what you can to this reputable organization.

The "Anti's" have money brought in on pallets. We have to generate financial support for our rights under the Constitution. That's a sad fact..but true.

Outlaw Man
March 7, 2007, 09:08 AM
If there were no hunting allowed anywhere in the world, it would not impact my life in any way.
Off topic, but it actually could impact your life. Hunters do a great job of preventing overpopulation and reducing the number of feral animals that greatly endanger the farm animals and vegitation you depend on for survival.


On topic, I hope Zumbo really has seen the light. He could be one of our biggest allies.

Henry Bowman
March 7, 2007, 09:39 AM
Besides, does anyone really care about Cinncinattiiee?Probably not. ;)

For me, Zumbo has now said exactly what I needed to hear. I don't think he'll forget it any time soon. Wish I could say the same about many elected ones.

buzz_knox
March 7, 2007, 10:03 AM
Think twice, post once. I sincerely hope that Zumbo learned his lesson.

Now that Zumbo seems to be coming around, I wonder if he'd be willing to shed some light on the statement attributed to Remington's CEO on www.archerytalk.com that Zumbo was counseled not to post what he did, and proceeded to do it anyway.

If true, it could shed some light on his original thought processes, the real reason behind the use of the word "terrorist," and how far he has come.

buzz_knox
March 7, 2007, 10:15 AM
I hope the Bradys continue to quote his old Blog until they get busted publicly and drawn into an open debate.

Their craziness can't survive public scrutiny.


Actually, it can. They'll simply argue that Zumbo "changed his mind" to protect his career. Zumbo's initial blog and the subsequent events can be used to impeach his credibility on the issue, just as with any witness who recants.

The key for Zumbo is to truly walk the walk, and go way beyond letters. His epiphany must be supported by constant demonstrations that it is real. He has to show that the economic duress is still under (and which was demonstrated by the timing of his apologies) plays no role in how he currently believes. If after a couple of years of saying the same thing he's saying now but without the endorsement deals, free hunts, etc., then you'll see credibility restored in the eyes of those who need to hear what he's saying now message.

waterhouse
March 7, 2007, 10:32 AM
I see Zumbo as a success case. I know a couple hunters who don't see any need for Ar-15s. They don't mind that I own them, and aren't against anyone owning them, they just see them as useless. There are plenty of people out there who think like Zumbo did, but I honestly believe he came around. Hopefully the publicity of this case will help educate others.

lance22
March 7, 2007, 11:03 AM
I found it disturbing that in Zumbo's letter, he mentioned that he recieved a great deal of SUPPORT email, stating that he was right and had no need to apologize.

I think WE are the one's who needed the wake-up call. There has been this underlying presumption that all gun owners, especially hunters are pro 2A. Now, we find out that Field n Stream pretty much has Brady doctrine as their official statment.

So, we need to educate hunters by sponsoring slots on the outdoor channel, or even getting a few lines put into the hard-core FUDD rags like Outdoor Life. Outdoor writers and all others who have an audience with FUDDs likewise should try to educate them.

Svolich
March 7, 2007, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by Svolich
If there were no hunting allowed anywhere in the world, it would not impact my life in any way.

Off topic, but it actually could impact your life. Hunters do a great job of preventing overpopulation and reducing the number of feral animals that greatly endanger the farm animals and vegitation you depend on for survival.


On topic, I hope Zumbo really has seen the light. He could be one of our biggest allies.

I suspect that poisons and traps - if they were politically allowable - would do as much as hunting.

And the government would always allow for professionals to keep the economy going. A friend of mine works for vector control. He can go anywhere in Los Angeles county and shoot birds, his weapon of choice is a .410 Remington 1100. He has literally shot pigeons in the middle of the civic center in downtown LA, and Seagulls at the Santa Monica pier, so he can check them for encephalitis. But I don't really think of that as hunting - that's more like culling.

And I agree, I hope Zumbo has seen the light, and this isn't just a desperate attempt to get his sponsors back. If he walks the walk it will be good for the cause. But I hope someone else takes his place, professionally, there are plenty of people who deserve their at making a living as a writer.

Gewehr98
March 7, 2007, 04:21 PM
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=226372&stc=1&d=1172704200

Bainx
March 7, 2007, 06:34 PM
Any damage that Zumbo did to the cause of firearms rights is dwarfed by the horrible impression made by many in the gun rights community. The explosive reaction to Zumbo's statement simply confirmed the opinion of many people that gun owners are irrational extremists who keep their hatred on a hair trigger. To cast out a long-time supporter and ruin his career over a single episode was a wild overreaction.

Do we need to sound the "Troll Alert"?

Tell you what hoss, if we don't become absolutely militant about certain issues, we will lose this thing for sure!

As for him being a "long-time supporter", I am calling pure B.S.

I am sick of being demonized for owning guns
I am tired of being demonized for owning guns
I am sick and tired of being demonized for owning guns
I am sick and tired and resent being demonized for owning guns

The next person in my sight who insinuates I am some sort of criminal for owning guns will get
a punch in the face, period.
If that gets your panties in a wad, I'm glad

ArfinGreebly
March 7, 2007, 06:51 PM
Gewehr98,

Any way to verify the veracity of that email?

If it were genuine, it would (in the absence of other evidence) indicate to me that the conversation Zumbo had with the Remington dude (the one he talked to while hunting with their newest whiz-bang Rem rifle) entailed something more than just the mention of people hunting with AR-styled rifles.

A little brandy/scotch/bourbon, a conversation beginning with
"When I was your age, sonny"
leading to the mention of large numbers of AR hunter dudes, leading to
"That's outrageous! I'm gonna write a scathing blog entry about that!"
followed by,
"Jim, I think that's a bad idea; better sleep on it."
and finally,
"No way! I'm pissed!"

Anyone who respects the law blog or loves sausage should never watch either one being made.

Dan from MI
March 7, 2007, 07:02 PM
I'll take Jim Zumbo at his word here and see what his actions are in the future.

Gewehr98
March 7, 2007, 07:14 PM
The recipient posted it here:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=459780

I have no reason to question Brad's, as well as Tommy Milner's, credibility.

Zumbo was told not to engage foot in mouth, but did anyway. So you'll forgive me if I question the effectiveness and speed of his current "revelation", as well as his true motives for preaching the born-again Gospel. To me, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Jim Zumbo belongs in the dustbin of history next to Vidkun Quisling, and my 2A money, letters, and efforts go towards better and more deserving spokespersons. ;)

Kentak
March 7, 2007, 07:41 PM
If Zumbo follows through with his pledge to help educate the hunting fraternity about the importance of RKBA for all kinds of guns and all kinds of shooters, then I can accept his rehabilitation and welcome him back to the fold.

There seems little to be gained by doing otherwise.

Before this whole event happened, I was unfamiliar with the label "fudd." Whether or not you feel some deserve that slur, I would hope we take the high road and refrain from anything that tends to fragment or denigrate shooters' solidarity.

K

Gewehr98
March 7, 2007, 07:47 PM
Before this whole event happened, I was unfamiliar with the label "fudd." Whether or not you feel some deserve that slur, I would hope we take the high road and refrain from anything that tends to fragment or denigrate shooters' solidarity.

If one doesn't like "Fudd" as a term to describe gunowners willing to throw other gunowners under the bus to save their walnut and blued steel "hunting" firearms, then perhaps "Quisling" would be more PC? :scrutiny:

I'm all for giving a guy a second chance when he's made an honest mistake or was simply uneducated. This strikes me as neither (especially after I read that he was advised not to make the original blog entry), and even I'm not dumb enough to try to teach that pig to sing.

"Fudd", btw, existed as a term long before Zumbo contracted foot-in-mouth disease. Check the threads at ARFCOM for the history.

Dave Workman
March 7, 2007, 08:49 PM
So, we need to educate hunters by sponsoring slots on the outdoor channel, or even getting a few lines put into the hard-core FUDD rags like Outdoor Life. Outdoor writers and all others who have an audience with FUDDs likewise should try to educate them.

Well, Houston, we have a problem.

I've been monitoring this thread and participating to a small degree, but now I must speak as an observer.

I have seen countless posts from righteously (and justifiably) offended EBR owners using the term "Fudd." They do so in a derogatory tone. That's got to cease, right now.

If we continue looking down our noses at one another for this difference or that slight, we will be right where the anti-gunners want us. The challenge is not to insult one another but to EDUCATE one another.

Of course, insulting somebody is easier, especially from the cover of an internet handle. I don't use an Internet handle, just my name.

Nobody ever said defending gun rights is supposed to be easy, but some of you guys are making it near impossible to portray gun owners as a united community of level-headed people all working for the common good of defending the Second Amendment.

As for the folks who have their minds set in concrete that the Second Amendment has something to do with hunting and "sporting purposess," do yourselves a favor in the blood pressure department and just ignore them. Work around them. They do not represent you, and it is pretty easy to make that clear to anyone listening to them.

They're like the sibling you allow in the house during the holidays because, after all, they are part of the family. Nobody is asking you to let them move into that spare room, but I believe it is time to ratchet down the rhetoric a few degrees.

As for Zumbo...give him his head and let HIM work on these folks. They listen to him. He "speaks their language." Maybe this whole episode will have the ultimate benefit of giving Zumbo the bully pulpit to convert that segment of the family and bring 'em back to the fold.

I have a sneaking hunch he really will become the Brady Bunch's "worst nightmare." After all, what's he got to lose at this point, eh?

We do the enemy's work by denigrating one another. Adopt the NATO doctrine: Attack one of us, fight all of us.

bogie
March 7, 2007, 10:12 PM
Okay, Dave... Can we call 'em Elmers?

(grin, okay?)

Oh, and I was born in Cincy, but can't spell it without checking something...

Fact is, we've got about 100,000,000 gun owners in this country, right?

And 3,000,000 NRA members.

Now, I'm not fancy rocket scientist, but I'm seeing about 97,000,000 folks who need to be reached. A large portion of 'em are probably "Fouled Up Deer Deputies" or whatever... Damn, but I'm tired... Jen had a stent put in on Tuesday morning, from lower esophagus to upper upper intestine, and it's giving her fits, and I am just taking a break...

So...

I think the term is a descriptive of part of the problem - the "part time" gun person needs to be reached.

Heck, I usually just call 'em "Bubba," and try to go to a different part of the range. Behind cover.

ilcylic
March 10, 2007, 12:20 AM
I'm in. I just read today that 1022 has a dozen co-sponsors now. It's not the Vanderbilt Fortune or anything, but I'm going to spread about $250 around tomorrow. I think keeping my 2A without having to fight the 'hard fight' for it would be easily worth a half week's pay. JPFO, CCRKBA, GOA, NRA, TLA, OMGWTFBBQ, etc.

bogie
March 10, 2007, 10:48 AM
Write to all your congresscritters, and heck, even to folks who may run against 'em...

For Republicans, shoot 'em your standard note - don't make it too long tho - their minions don't care about the historical implications, all that other fun stuff that gun nuts seem to go in for.

For Democrats, basically tell 'em "Hey, brother, I hope that we ignore this stuff for a while, because it cost us big time in some previous elections when we hacked off the hunters." Object is for it NOT to get tossed as being an unwinnable vote.

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