Looking for a concealed carry pistol.


PDA






snewbie
March 5, 2007, 06:09 PM
I have been looking for a concealed carry pistol with the following characteristics:

1 Dimensions of no greater than 6.25" long X 1.25" wide X 5.25" tall

2 Caliber in order of preference, 45acp, 40s&w, 9mm(MUST be able to shoot +P)

3 Capacity of no less than 10 rounds in magazine.

4 Action must be DAO or DA/SA(NOT SA/DA) with second strike capability. Needs a 9lb+ DA trigger pull.

5 Price of no more than $450 out the door with a total of 3 magazines. If it only comes with one or 2 mags, I will buy more to equal 3 and it must equal the stated price.

6 Must be a durable and reliable gun. I have reservations about Kel-tec. Yes, I know a lot of people have good luck with them, but a lot of people have bad luch with them too. I wont say absolutly no Kel-tecs though, but I am looking for other options.

7 NO magazine disconnect safety!!! Stupid lawyer crap!!

8 NO GLOCKS. Just in case you think that the Glock is DAO just because the ATFE says so, let me tell you right now that they arent. They are 62% cocked when a round is chambered and only have a 5.5lb trigger pull. They do not have second strike capability. I tried the NY1 and NY2 trigger in my glock and do not like them. I will NOT walk around or sit around with a loaded cocked(62%) weapon pointing at people. Its a psychological thing, not rational, so dont try to change my mind.

The only thing I have seen thus far is the Taurus PT-140 and PT-145, but I cant get a straight answer out of their "customer service" minimum wage monkeys as to whether they are DAO, DA/SA or SA/DA(single action only, but with second strike ability). Plus, I cant find any right now.

I can wait if necessary, but want to get something before summer for sure. I know I am picky, but I want what I want, and I am the customer.

Any suggestions? PLEASE:D

If you enjoyed reading about "Looking for a concealed carry pistol." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
DawgFvr
March 5, 2007, 06:20 PM
Answer: Buy the second generation PT145 millennium Pro. It has better sights and unlike the third generation, it is DAO. A beautiful pocket cannon. Use Corbon DPX ammo and you will have a nice setup.;)

AnthonyRSS
March 5, 2007, 06:29 PM
The new Millenium Pro is SA/DA, but with a really long trigger pull.

Anthony

ajoker31
March 5, 2007, 06:39 PM
Hate to sound like a broken record......PT-145. No problems, very accurate, inexpensive, lifetime warranty. It's my carry piece and I have other high end pistols I could use.

Jerry

g5reality
March 5, 2007, 06:40 PM
Have you looked a any kimbers? Ultra RCP II would meet your size specifications but not your round count. I don't think you're looking at any .45's in that size. You're looking at 9mm. The Pro carry II, or Aegis II are great guns but hold fewer than the 10 rounds you want. It seems that the gun you describe IS a glock 26. fits all of your criteria. Perhaps you should have just reduced the trigger pull with a #3.5 and not messed with the NY trigger. If you're worried about the "62% cocked" I don't know what you're referring to. either don't keep a round chambered or keep your finger off of the trigger and you won't have any problems.

I'd get a glock 26 before getting another gun.

Check out this article on CCW guns in this month's handgun magazine it migh help.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/featured_handguns/concarry_022707/

snewbie
March 5, 2007, 06:52 PM
No glocks. I have my reasons, and to further explain them would constitute a thread drift. Again it is psychological, not rational.

So, the new (3rd gen)PT-145 is a Double action/Single Action gun with a decocker or a safety that acts as a decocker, right? A long heavy trigger pull for the initial double action or double action only pull is a very desirable safety feature for me. That is why I love DA revolvers, but they dont have the ammo capacity I want. I want something I can slip in my pocket and go to the store with if necessary. Usually of course, I will use a holster.

Thanks for the article g5reality

tlish
March 5, 2007, 07:08 PM
no, the pt 145 is sa/da. it's single action for the first shot, but has second-strike capability.

you may also want to look at the xd .45's

the walther p99 may also suit you in a .40.

g5reality
March 5, 2007, 07:12 PM
WEll it seems to me the perfect and only gun that fits your tight parameters is the Kahr PM9. Stop looking and just buy one. as the article says:

"When testing the PM9 for the 2005 Handguns Annual, I had no trouble doing two-shot drills into the head box of an IPSC target at seven yards, two good solid hits, with shot-to-shot speeds of .28 second. When you make a full-power auto pistol this small, especially with a polymer frame, you severely impact long-term durability. Kahr's not fooling anyone; the company will flat-out tell you the PM9 is a 6,000-round gun. I guess I can live with that. The PM9, as far as I'm concerned, is the very definition of a "carry a lot, shoot a little" maximum-concealment full-power pistol.

Kel-Tec produces three versions of a small, polymer-frame auto pistol chambered in .32 ACP, .380 ACP or 9mm Parabellum. These guns' light weight, low price, small size and extreme flatness have earned them a lot of fans. Early examples of Kel-Tecs I fired years ago had atrocious trigger pulls, but recent examples I've handled have been much improved."

Texfire
March 5, 2007, 07:26 PM
WEll it seems to me the perfect and only gun that fits your tight parameters is the Kahr PM9. Stop looking and just buy one. as the article says:
"When testing the PM9 for the 2005 Handguns Annual, I had no trouble doing two-shot drills into the head box of an IPSC target at seven yards, two good solid hits, with shot-to-shot speeds of .28 second. When you make a full-power auto pistol this small, especially with a polymer frame, you severely impact long-term durability. Kahr's not fooling anyone; the company will flat-out tell you the PM9 is a 6,000-round gun. I guess I can live with that. The PM9, as far as I'm concerned, is the very definition of a "carry a lot, shoot a little" maximum-concealment full-power pistol.

Kel-Tec produces three versions of a small, polymer-frame auto pistol chambered in .32 ACP, .380 ACP or 9mm Parabellum. These guns' light weight, low price, small size and extreme flatness have earned them a lot of fans. Early examples of Kel-Tecs I fired years ago had atrocious trigger pulls, but recent examples I've handled have been much improved."

Three problems with this recommendation. The PM9 has neither 10 rounds in the magazine or double strike capability. Also, unless you find a used one it's unlikely to come in for under $450. I have a PM9, so I'm not knocking it, but it doesn't fit his stated criteria.

I think you're going to have trouble finding a gun that fits all your criteria, which ones are dealbreakers?

Tex

snewbie
March 5, 2007, 07:31 PM
You have no idea how dissapointed I am that the taurus is SA with second strike. I cant even find a 3rd generation much less a second. The Kahr, IIRC is way too expensive and obviously lacks durability. If I am gonna get a less than truly durable gun, I will just pay 1/3 to 1/2 the price for a Keltec P-11. I am sooo bummed about the Taurus.


Which ones are deal breakers? Which ones arent deal breakers? It sounds like I will have to sacrifice durability and reliability and settle for a P-11. At least it is small and can shoot +P ammo if need be.

g5reality
March 5, 2007, 07:37 PM
You are correct.

I stand corrected.

Lonestar.45
March 5, 2007, 08:07 PM
I'm pretty sure what you're looking for does not exist.

You want 10rd minimum capacity, but also want to be able to throw it in a pocket to go to the store. That, and the fact that you don't want a Glock, and 9mm is way down on your preference list....seriously, you can't have it all. You'll end up like most of us and give up something. Either capacity, or durability, or pay more than you want, or get one larger than you want. You'll compromise on something. You just have to decide what is most important.

I've come to realize there is no magic one gun solution for what I want. I've got a KelTec 3at for true pocket carry, the Kahr for pocket and IWB when I want to go tuckable or low profile; a Glock G36 for IWB w/more power; and either the G19 or 1911 IWB with Sparks VMII's when dress allows. Each fills a role, none can do it all for me. If I had to keep just one, it would probably be the G36.

How are you wanting to carry most often? That makes all the difference.

snewbie
March 5, 2007, 08:25 PM
I currently carry a Glock 20 IWB (holstered)which is very uncomfortable or in a shoulder holster which is only good for winter. I am not comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber, but I do. Of course, I cant just throw it in my pocket with that 5.5lb trigger pull.

I already knew that the taurus was going to be the absolute biggest I could comfortably handle for summer carry. The idea of 11 rounds of 45acp in a true DAO 9lb trigger pull with second strike all for less than $400 was very appealing to me. The manual safety would have given it the extra safety for the occasional front pocket (with a long shirt over it) or coat pocket carry.

I think the Kel-tec will fit the bill since it has almost all of the features I want and no "deal breakers". The added benefit is that 9mm ammo is cheaper for easier practice and the gun is small enough for more comfortable IWB carry and true pocket carry.

loplop
March 5, 2007, 10:04 PM
IMO the Taurus is way big for pocket carry. I don't know what kind of pockets you typically have, but even if you could get it (and the holster, you're going to use a holster, right?) in your pocket you'd have a heck of a time getting it to draw cleanly.

I think you're asking too much.

Anything larger than a Kahr PM9 is IMO not a pocket pistol.

Not that the Taurus isn't a great pistola, I'm sure it is. But it's essentially similar in size to my SIG P239 (just a tad shorter in the barrel) and that isn't a pocket pistol by any stretch. Now the PM9, that's made for pocket carry. (or a snubbie)

tnieto2004
March 5, 2007, 10:10 PM
Try a XD ...

jetdriver
March 5, 2007, 10:29 PM
XD - no second strike, and not in 45 within those dimensions. Also, it is not truly DA. It is a precocked striker config (basically single action on the inside, as pulling the trigger only performs one function - not two like in a glock). If it were truly DA you could keep pulling that trigger all day long - no reracking the slide.

The only one that has the ten round capacity you desire, and all of the other features you want is the Taurus. I had a 2nd gen PT145 that was my daily CCW for three years. It's a fine pistol. Basically the same size as a sub Glock (I traded a G27 for it). The Glock is a little longer, the Taurus is a little taller, but slightly thinner.

Don't let the DA/SA trigger get you down. The sights are different, but not worse. The old style were screw in and would come loose. My FS did. The new 3rd gen Taurus pistols have dovetailed sights. If they are not your cup of tea, wait and sight manufacturers will start coming out with replacements.

The new trigger is DA/SA. I see that as an improvement. Same initial DA stroke as the 2nd gen (long...but smooth) and a nice short reset for the follow up.

The screw in sights and long reset were the two biggest complaints of the previous models. I think Taurus is listening to its customers.

Try one. I think you will like it.

modifiedbrowning
March 5, 2007, 10:32 PM
Check out the Bersa Thunder Ultra compacts. The dimensions are a little biiger than you want but close. They come in .45, .40 and 9mm. The .45 is 7+1, the .40 is 10+1 and the 9mm is 13+1. I picked mine up for $350 OTD, but they only come with one mag. Additional mags will cost around $40 when you can find them as they are hard to find. A nice bonus is that the 9mm UC will accept full size mags which are 17+1 (I use one as my spare).
My Bersas have all been very reliable and fun to shoot. I highly recommend them especially for the price.
www.bersafirearmsusa.com

Mandirigma
March 6, 2007, 12:01 AM
Just MHO, second strike = bad. TRB (Tap, Rack, Bang) = better.


Again, just my opinion. But I'm not going to let the firing pin strike a round it didn't set off the first time again.

Srigs
March 6, 2007, 12:42 AM
Kel-tec P11 has all those things your looking for including second strike.

lurkersince03
March 6, 2007, 12:43 AM
CZ P01 9mm.

LightningJoe
March 6, 2007, 04:01 AM
Second strike is important mainly because it facilitates dry firing, an important training method.

The Taurus PT145 would be a good choice--sorry to hear they screwed up the action. SA/DA? What's that?

chaim
March 6, 2007, 04:24 AM
I love my Taurus PT140 Milennium Pro. Very good small CCW gun, 100% reliable.

I too was upset about the switch to SA/DA. I'd love more versions of the Milennium Pro (PT 145, the single stack PT 745, the titanium version of the 9mm PT 111) but I don't want to switch off between the two actions. Also, I too wanted the DA trigger pull on this kind of gun- I wanted a DAO.

If you really want the DAO I doubt you'll find a new one at this point. They've had the SA/DA version for a while now, and the Milennium Pro series have been flying off dealers' shelves for a couple years now that the word is out that Taurus got the quality right on this one and it is priced so nicely.

You could pretty easily find a nice used one at a decent price. If you can't find one near you, try Gunbroker or Auctionarms. The only reason I don't do that for one of the other variations I want is I got a good price for my PT 140 M. Pro, prices have gone up since I bought mine (people caught on- basic supply and demand), and when you add the used price on the site and shipping and FFL transfer fees I have trouble paying the same or a little more on a used gun than I did for essentially the same gun new a couple years ago.

As for other options (with your $450 price limit, size limit, 10 or more rounds, and no Kel-tec) I'm not sure there is anything else without compromising one of your criteria. If you compromise a little there are a ton of nice guns out there to try. My SIG 229 isn't that much harder to hide than my Taurus PT 140 M. Pro. The single stack 239 would probably be that much easier. The S&W CS45 is a very small .45 but a little more money than you want (you may be close used) and no where near 10 shots. A 3" or 4" 1911 is pretty easy to conceal (they are very narrow) but they aren't cheap and only hold 6 or 7 rounds in the mag. The safety on the Milennium Pro series is in a pretty natural place so the SA/DA version of the Milennium Pro may be a good option despite the need to use the safety with a SA first shot. Anyway, you get the idea.

loplop
March 6, 2007, 09:53 AM
A 3" 1911 is a breeze to conceal, as is the aforementioned SIG P239. The P239 is my current carry autoloader. Nice pistol.

Still, it "aint no pocket pistol."

tinygnat219
March 6, 2007, 10:19 AM
The Millenium Pro 145 made by Taurus is what you are looking for. The SA pull is long, and it has the second strike capability. Seriously, this pistol will meet your requirements as I know no others that will.

armoredman
March 6, 2007, 10:44 AM
CZ 2075 RAMI 9mm is just .25" longer than your requirements, and under them in the other catagories, DA/SA trigger, positive safety, 10 round mags in 9mm, extended mags available to 14, high quality firearm.
Price is higher, by about $100 for sidearm and extra magazine, but you DO get what you pay for.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Newavatar.jpg

snewbie
March 6, 2007, 11:00 AM
Thanks for all the replies. I wont be here much for the next few days, so this thread may end up dieing. I will look at every recommendation again.

thanks again.

ZeSpectre
March 6, 2007, 11:49 AM
Your requirements are pretty similar to my own when I was shopping. Being that I'm a lefty a lot of safeties don't work well for me so I lean heavily towards DAO for a CCW sidearm.

I was happy to find a 2'nd Generation Taurus Millennium Pro PT-140 (DAO trigger) but having shot the 3'rd Generation SA/DA triggers I would have no trouble with one of them as a CCW.

Yes the trigger is long and you have to PRACTICE (especially if you are going with the snappy .40 S&W) but they are nice handling guns.

If you enjoyed reading about "Looking for a concealed carry pistol." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!