Cartridges you WISH they made?


Badger Arms
June 8, 2003, 02:21 AM
I'd like to open a discussion about cartridges that forum members WISH that they made or at least that were more readilly acceptable and available.

I, for one have a few wishes:

1) I want a 475 caliber that is, in essence, a shortened 50 BMG. Cartridge OAL would be no longer than the 375 H&H and the case would resemble a Short Fat magnum. The intended use would be shooting long-range targets with VLD bullets from bench-rest rifles. The primary advantage would be lessened recoil and lighter rifle platforms. One could even use the gun for Africa or Alaska if one desired. And whey California bans the 50 caliber, those poor souls can still shoot something BIG and FUN.

2) How about a rimfire that you can use for hunting AND plinking. Maybe a 25 caliber along the same power lines as the 30/30 or 7.62x39 that you could make for half the cost of Russian surplus ammo? Say .05 cents a pop?

I know somebody else has one that they're itching to see made.

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June 8, 2003, 07:40 AM
With the myriad cartridges out there, I'm sure that about anything I proffer here will be redundant. Practically anything I can think of is covered by some cartridge from some country. I guess I am just not that imaginative.

The way I look at it, the world needs a new cartridge like it needs another lawyer. The ones the world now has will suffice quite well, thank you. Of course, where's the profit for gun manufacturers in that line of thinking?

P.S. Man, I just read what I wrote above and I sound like an old fogey. Although I'll stand by the above, what do I care if makers and buyers want to keep each other amused? I'll just sit here with my old '06 and smile as the latest and greatest step up to the plate to take a swing.

June 8, 2003, 07:53 AM
Something that shoots flat farther than I can see----has no recoil---and will drop anything that walks with one shot--everytime.

That's what I want.

Oh ya---and the gun should only weigh a pound or two----for ease of carrying.

June 8, 2003, 08:35 AM
i want the 8mm rem mag back. and i want a decent bullet selection for it.

June 8, 2003, 01:32 PM
I exchanged e-mails about a cartridge called the .375 KODIAK ...
This is what was said:

Q. I just saw an ad in the GunsAmerica custom rifle section for a gun
chambered in .375 KODIAK.
Never heard of it. Did a search. Found your site. Thought I'd ask.
Can you tell me what it is; where to get information on it; is it worth
looking into?
I've got a 1995 Remington BDL-DM in .338 Win.Mag. that I would consider
turning into a .375 short magnum wildcat if it's worth the effort.

A. The .375 Kodiak is a cartridge created by gunsmith Phil Chiaravalle here in Kodiak Alaska. It is similar to other necked up wildcats, but what makes it unique is combining that with a
Weatherby free-bore in the chamber. This allows you to seat your bullets out to full magazine length giving you greater powder capacity. You get the same ballistics as a .375 H&H,
but in a standard length action.

Considering that I'm selling my .338 to get the .375 H&H, it gives me pause to think about this cartridge again.
The main thing stopping me is the 'oops, I lost my ammo' problem should I travel with the gun someday and the ammo doesn't join us!
The other is that I don't handload yet, and this sounds like quite a project to undertake as far as having the gun re-barreled/chambered and getting the equipment to load. Much more $$$ than I'm willing/able to put into this just to get the .375 bullet diameter.
But, I'd like to see someone pick this type of cartridge up for production.

Badger Arms
June 8, 2003, 02:49 PM

Sounds like you could get a 375 H&H rifle and have the barrel set back and rechambered easy enough. You might also consider the 375 JRS which is a blown-out 375 H&H (or a necked-up 8mm Remington Magnum). It's a full-length cartridge that gives you some more pep, feeds from standard 375 length actions and magazines, and requires only a rechamber. Of course, you'd need to buy reloading stuff too. One advantage to the 375 JRS that I saw when I was considering it was that you could fire the 375 H&H in the gun if you had to. You'd get somewhat of a reduction in velocity but I don't own one yet so I can't tell you how much.


Although I'll agree with you on the notion that there is nothing new under the sun, not everything that is useful is made, marketed, and sold. Great cartridges that fill a niche are almost non-existant out there. Take the 358 Winchester and it's rimmed companion, the 356. How about the 38/45 or the 400 CorBon? Availability on these stinks and yet they are good cartridges in their own right. The 30-06 is a wonderful cartrige but you can't get quality ammo for 5 cents a round, can you?


There is a cartridge that meets your specifications. Unfortunately, it's not available IN THIS UNIVERSE!!! ;)

June 8, 2003, 02:57 PM

Weirdly enough, that was my email that you quote, in reply to your question about the .375 Kodiak a couple of years back - small world, eh?

And since then, the .375 Kodiak has gone... nowhere. A few were picked up by local guides who understood the utility and speed of a shorter action, but the ante was upped with the release of the new short magnums. Now, the people who "get it" want a .375 that will fit in a short action, rather than just a standard length action.

And that makes perfect sense to me! If you can get the same ballistics in an even lighter, shorter, faster action - why not? A number of gunsmiths are already on that, turning short-action Ruger, CZ and Remingtons into .375 WSM's.

And that is my personal wish for a new cartridge - a factory .375 WSM.


Badger Arms
June 8, 2003, 03:20 PM
Wasn't the 376 Steyr a flash in the pan? Personally, I think that the 350 RM was the cat's meow. How much do you think the 375 WSM would be able to do that the 350 RM could do...

Hmmmm, bullet selection is a bit better. About the same velocity probably with a larger, heavier barrel. Not THAT much larger or THAT much heavier though.

June 8, 2003, 08:50 PM
One thing and one thing only that a .375 WSM could do that a .350 rem couldn't and that is leagally be used for dangerous game in African countries.

Guys, what is the actual length of a 376 is it standard or short?

If the .375 WSM did come out I'd like it to be able to push a 300 gr bullet at 2500fps out of a 20" tube just like the H&H.

June 8, 2003, 09:00 PM

It's been since 1969 that the quarter bore has had anything new.
I want a .257WSM. Not a WSSM, mind you. And I want it available with a 140 grain bullet.

Heck, the bore dia is only .007 less than the 6.5's and they've got bullet weights up to 160 grains. One of the reasons that I want it on the full WSM case is 'cause I want the brass thick enough to put that 140 out the muzzle of a real world 24" barrel at 3200 fps. The ballistic coefficient should be out of this world. Thereby allowing legit 'shoot the moon' war stories around the campfire.

Why shouldn't Winchester make Weatherby & Lazzaroni sweat?
For that matter, it ought to make the pronghorn antelope population start breeding for another 10 mph!

June 8, 2003, 10:02 PM
I've always had a yen to see someone neck a .50 BMG down to .17 caliber. I think someone on rec.guns referred to it as a "Furious Smurf."

I think there would be some serious technical issues with this round.

June 8, 2003, 10:37 PM
I've always had a yen to see someone neck a .50 BMG down to .17 caliber. I think someone on rec.guns referred to it as a "Furious Smurf."

I think there would be some serious technical issues with this round.

I would love to see this! I do have a friend that owns a cartridge that someone did this too, but alas, it is lacking powder and usable primer.

.17 caliber bullet traveling at 10000 fps would be great,wouldnt it?!

June 8, 2003, 10:51 PM
I think it'd be nice to have a cartidge that would could be fired in a 50BMG without a significant amount of conversion. Maybe just downsize the case head and get a new bolt.

I think that the 50BMG rifles are gonna be legal in CA, but it looks likely that the round itself will be outlawed.


June 8, 2003, 11:25 PM
Captain H-P;

Essentially, this was done in the late stages of WWII to 1950, somewhere in that time frame, by the Navy I think. They necked a 5" gun shell down to the .50 BMG. The powder is out of date & after the nukes were in the inventory the data was shelved. But, look around on the internet, it's probably out there somewhere.

June 9, 2003, 12:59 AM

Indeed! :D
I and my family just got back from my Mom's where we had a delicious Copper River Sockeye Salmon dinner. Yum!
I was pleasantly surprised to see your post.
Thanks for remembering the inquiry.

A .375 WSM would be interesting. It would provide a bit of 'oomph' to the short mag list.

A .375 RSAUM could be a 'less is more' proposition, as the Remington Short Mags are even shorter to fit the Model 7 action.
I'd like to see that one done.

Fun Topic we've got going here.


June 9, 2003, 01:27 AM
(doning flame suit) The ultimate cartridge will be for a directed energy weapon. Never mind calibers and muzzle velocities, it will be megawatts and wavelengths. Lockeed has a contract to design fighter based weapons, man sized weapons will follow eventually.

Imagine being able to take down a moose cleanly and cook it from 300+ yards:what:

I watch too much TV, but I want one:evil:

Badger Arms
June 9, 2003, 01:30 AM
I'd like to see the .223 necked up to 45 caliber... hehehe. Seriously. Yes, there is a problem with this. Can anybody guess what the problem is?

Badger Arms
June 9, 2003, 01:35 AM
The ultimate cartridge will be for a directed energy weapon. Never mind calibers and muzzle velocities, it will be megawatts and wavelengths.But that has nothing to do with rifles. Rifling a laser won't do much... They already HAVE operational lasers that will shoot down salvos of rockets fired at Israel. The Airborne Laser project is nearly operational. The main thing that you have to deal with when using lasers is that they take tremendous amounts of energy to be effective as a weapon. This energy is decades if not centuries away from being man-portable. Sure, you can blind the enemy but I think this violates some rules of war as well as common decency. Better to kill somebody.

On the flip side, the 50BMG necked down to 17 caliber and packed full of Bullseye powder might just act like a plasma weapon!!!:what:

Andrew Wyatt
June 9, 2003, 01:56 AM
Lasers are also affected by "thermal blooming", where they heat up the air, which makes it turbulent,which scatters the beam.

projectile weapons are with us for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, i'd like to see someone make a .300 WSSM, because i'd like an AR or mini-14 that is m-1 carbine size, weight, and length, and has .30-06 ballistics.

June 9, 2003, 08:09 AM
Being a fan of .35s, I would like to see Winchester neck the WSM to .35 caliber. It should walk away from the .35 Whelen and .350 Rem Mag quite easily. Next I would want a better selection of bullets available in .35 caliber.

June 9, 2003, 10:34 AM
I'd like to see the .223 necked up to 45 caliber... hehehe. Seriously. Yes, there is a problem with this. Can anybody guess what the problem is?

Yeah, it would have to be a muzzle loader.

Badger Arms
June 9, 2003, 11:34 AM
I would like to see Winchester neck the WSM to .35 caliber.While I'm with you on that one, they won't make it for the same reason that the 358 Norma Magnum wasn't that popular. Then again, they did make the 350 Magnum and it's still made in production rifles!!! And the 358 is back at Browning!!! I'll keep my fingers crossed with you.

Yeah, it would have to be a muzzle loader....and where would you get dies for it? What would they look like?

Well, I suppose you could just cut a hole in the base of the 45 bullet and insert a .223 cartridge like you were starting it in a chamber. So long as the breech of the barrel were cut properly, you could just ram the 45 projectile down the barrel and the 223 cartrige would seal the firing pin hole. Would be a pain to extract though!!! Maybe you could have a gas port near the muzzle that would follow a gas tube to the breech and pop the cartridge out the muzzle when the bullet leaves? Extreme gunsmithing at its finest.

June 9, 2003, 12:56 PM
I think I'd go with the WSM. The Winchester seems to be a bit more popular, and has just a tad more steam according to the reloading manuals. To be expected, since the WSM has 8% more case volume than the Remington shorty...

That's enough to steer me in that direction.

Anyway, the important point is that the WSM is only an 1/8th of an inch longer, so it wouldn't be a big deal to fit it into any short action - even the Model 7. In fact, I have a Model 7 in .350 Remington Magnum which actually has a longer case (2.160 vs 2.090) than the WSM!

So, it could certainly be done. Though, if the magazine was just a tad longer you get seat the bullets out just a bit more for slightly better performance.

I *think* the CZ short action has a slightly longer magazine, and it's certainly a bit slicker action than the Model 7. The CZ might be the best choice for such a conversion.


Brian Williams
June 9, 2003, 01:12 PM
I want a 6mm SAW in a modified m16a2 with gas piston/op-rod system.

I also want a better 22 jet with a steeper shoulder angle kind of an Ackley Imp version

June 9, 2003, 07:33 PM
I want the .41Special made commercially available!:D

June 9, 2003, 08:12 PM

Yup, it could be a muzzle loader, but it sure doesn't have to be. Springfield, the original one you know, had this thing called a trap-door. An adaptation of that trailing edge technology should do quite nicely.

June 9, 2003, 08:48 PM
Nuke50, I'm sure it could work in a rifle, too
:D :D :D

June 10, 2003, 06:16 PM
I want bigger-bore rimfires too. But rimfires won't take the kind of pressure that centerfire cases would. But I still want even the lo-power option, something to give the .22 mag a run for it's money. Unfortunately, un-flattening trajectories does NOT sell, and there's already a plethora of centerfire calibers that essentialy fill all the niches I'd want except for the quarter-bore. Lowering ammo costs isn't enough to sustain the concept against pre-existing rounds.

Andrew Wyatt
June 10, 2003, 06:59 PM
well, they do make 27 caliber rimfire nailgun blanks, so it's concieveable that they could make the same thing loaded with a projectile.

June 10, 2003, 07:39 PM
I want a 10mm necked down to 7mm. Integral suppressor. 10" barrel. Loaded with proper bullets, I think it would be the ideal PDF.


Glock Glockler
June 10, 2003, 10:23 PM
I think a 7.62 x 39 necked down to a 6.5mm would be dandy.

June 11, 2003, 04:30 AM
Imagine the .30 carbine round, slightly elongated. Make it a rimmed cartridge.

This could be chambered in both rifles and revolvers. Would be a champion little varmint round that could be loaded over 2,000 fps. Plenty of .308 dia bullets out there to choose from. Wouldn't burn up much powder. Would be a natural choice for cast bullet shooters.

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