Black Talon .45 ACP price check...


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marksman13
March 6, 2007, 12:02 PM
Bought a box of Black Talons this morning for my SA-XD .45. I paid $19.00 for a box of fifty. Did I pay too much or was this a pretty good deal? If was a good deal I am going to buy his last two boxes. Thanks in adance guys.

Edit: Maybe they aren't the original Black Talons. The top of the box says:

Ranger SXT Controlled Expansion
45 Automatic
230 GR. SXT

The number on the side of the box is RA45SXT.

May not be the "real deal" but they are basially the same bullet right? They have brass cases, but they do have the "magical black coating".:D

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hotpig
March 6, 2007, 01:37 PM
You got a hell of a deal. That ammo has been out of production for over eight years. The auction price on gunbroker averages about 60.00 per box.

Buy a few boxes to sale to help support your habit.;)

Ala Dan
March 6, 2007, 01:49 PM
What you bought IS NOT the original "Black Talon" ammo as made by
Winchester; as the top of the box of original packaging will simply say:

BLACK TALON

The SXT Ranger ammo replaced the original "Black Talon" Winchester ammo; but $19 @ box even for this stuff is a heck'eva deal.

hotpig
March 6, 2007, 01:53 PM
The 45 BT sells for less than 50.00 per per box on GB. The RA##SXT is the valuable stuff.

Ron James
March 6, 2007, 01:57 PM
Alas, as Ala Dan posted, you have standard Winchester STX ammo. Don't worry , it's more or less the same ammo under different label. "Real" Black Talons are going for as much as 10 to 15 dollars for ten rounds.

hotpig
March 6, 2007, 02:02 PM
I should have offered to buy all that he could get for 40.00 per box and not tell him what it is worth.:banghead:

1BLINDREF
March 6, 2007, 02:07 PM
I thought the original Black Talons :evil: were illegal to have in ones possession. Is this true? Doe's it vary from state to state?

hotpig
March 6, 2007, 02:16 PM
I think NJ has the only state wide ban on hollowpoint ammo. Other than that the BT is no different than any other brand.

Husker1911
March 6, 2007, 02:19 PM
The original Black Talon is not illegal to own. Winchester voluntarily withdrew the ammunition from the market due to adverse public opinion.

The original Black Talon is Winchester's product S45A.

(I have a box for sale on the Accessories forum!)

mljdeckard
March 6, 2007, 02:20 PM
Black Talons are not prohibited to posess, sell, or use. They are prohibited to manufacture for sale to non-law enforcement personnel.

Was there any real reason for this? NO. Is the current production Winchester premium JHP the exact same thing? YES. Finding and buying any actually labeled "Black Talon" is really for novelty. Black Talons are no more lethal than any other premium JHP ammo.

I heard a story, (which is no more than that,) that the jackets on black talons shred into razor-sharp pieces and present a risk to the surgeon removing them. But those of us who have been shooting a while know, ALL jackets make sharp pieces when they fragment.

I also reflected at the time, a surgeon is working as fast as he can to save a life. But a CORONER has all the time in the world. Make sure the coroner is the one removing your bullets.

Geno
March 6, 2007, 02:22 PM
Black Talon is no big deal...in fact, it is pure hype. The sole difference between the original "Black Talon", versus the current equivalent is the lack of Teflon coating. Myth holds that the Teflon coating enhanced penetration. That is false. The Teflon did/does absolutely nothing with regard to penetration. The Teflon coating was applied by the factory to the projectiles, in order to protect the firearms' barrels, because the projectiles are so very hard.

This is not my opinion. These are the facts as presented in our Tactical and Advanced Tactical courses by the sergeant from the Southfield, MI, P.D. who taught the courses, and by the former 27-year (now retired) director of the Oakland County, MI, S.W.A.T. Team.

The myth of the Black Talon is pure hype. Let's have some fun with this...let's send it to Myth Busters...this myth has been around for too many years, and has resulted in adverse gun/ammunition laws...ridiculous laws that are based in myth, not in fact.

Doc2005

mljdeckard
March 6, 2007, 02:26 PM
Come to think of it, I would like to see Adam and Jayme shoot some BTs into different kinds of body armor. That's the best reason I have heard in years for someone to buy some.

hotpig
March 6, 2007, 02:26 PM
Black Talons are not prohibited to posess, sell, or use. They are prohibited to manufacture for sale to non-law enforcement personnel.


Actually this should be. Ranger ammo is prohibited by Winchester to sale to non-law enforcement personnel.

The BT should not penetrate vests unless it was just by a freak accident.

1BLINDREF
March 6, 2007, 02:30 PM
I was given a box of Black Talon .45's about ten years ago. The person was a Honda rep and lived in NJ. He told me they were illegal to own. I guess they were illegal for him to own in NJ because they were hollow points :what: :evil: :what: :rolleyes:
His loss, my gain :D

marksman13
March 6, 2007, 02:45 PM
Ok, so bottom line, how much is the stuff that I bought worth? Should I in fact go and buy the other box, or just keep shooting the Federal Hyrashoks? I realize that they aren't anything special as far as performance goes, but are the bullets I bought worth anything as a collector's item? Thanks for the prompt responses.

Jorg Nysgerrig
March 6, 2007, 02:52 PM
Black Talons didn't have a teflon coating. They used molybdenum disulfide which is a dry lubricant that is sometimes added to teflon, as well as used alone.

They are prohibited to manufacture for sale to non-law enforcement personnel.

Cite please? Everything I've ever read indicates it was purely a voluntary move. What exactly is prohibited?


the bullets I bought worth anything as a collector's item?

Someone might want them, but I think the ones with this packaging http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=67135403 would be more desirable.

Geno
March 6, 2007, 02:53 PM
Ooops...sorry...yes, you got them at a great price! Most people are willing to pay $40.00 and up because these can no longer be purchased, if Black Talons. Do not fire them! Let them increase in value. By the way, I would love to own a box of them as a collector piece. Pretty cool!!

Even if these are not Black Talons with Teflon, you still bought them at an excellent price. I have been paying $18.00 to $20.00 for FMJs in this area. Win. Def. H.P.s are running around $32.00 per box of 50. Either way, very good price.

Doc2005

hotpig
March 6, 2007, 02:57 PM
The last time that I sold any of the RA45SXT it was 60.00 per box. I have seen then go to 80.00.

Price varies with the box. The ones in the newer box with the Texas Ranger badge sale higher than the ones in the white box with the red and orange stripe.

CWL
March 6, 2007, 03:18 PM
I thought that the Ranger SXTs are slightly different than original Black Talons.

Black Talons were the first bullet designed so the jacket was meant to directly contribute to increasing wound patterns. The jacket would unfold to expose preformed pointed petals which would cut more tissue as it passed thru a target. Prior to this, jackets were simply meant to hold the lead core together.

The Rangers that I have, when compared to original Black Talons have fewer preformed "petals" and are no longer pointed. (Mine are from 7-10 years ago).

I think that modern bullets like Gold Dots and Golden Sabers will perform exactly the same as BTs.

ball3006
March 6, 2007, 03:43 PM
I have a box of 45 ACP and 357 Black Talons..........chris3

hotpig
March 6, 2007, 04:01 PM
Ranger T-Series ammo has six petals and they still have the talons when it expands.

Ala Dan
March 6, 2007, 04:31 PM
OK Folk's-

Along these same lines, does anyone remember Mr. David Keene of "Black
Rhino" fame? He is (or was?) an engineer with NASA, based in Huntsville,
AL and produced this ammo (along with his regular 'Rhino") that was at
least for awhile sold through his company called Signature Products, INC.
Supposedly, his gig was too suspend liquid teflon mixed with tiny birdshot
from the core of his ammo; sealed with parafin, it was suppose to be
absolutely devastating too the point that it would penetrate the best
body armor ever made~? Funny thing is, with me living in Alabama I
have NEVER seen his products; as his design went south very quickly.

Ron James
March 6, 2007, 05:32 PM
In states that H/Ps are not illegal neither are Black Talon's, nor Ranger's, Nor STX. Law enforcement only is a myth. I have half a dozen boxes that have Law Enforcement only and I brought them all over the counter. It makes for a good sales gimmick.

skinnyguy
March 6, 2007, 05:45 PM
The Black Talons and other similar styles are perfectly legal for the everyday guy to own. The LEO ONLY is a manufacture decision and is not based in law, except in states like NJ, or others with restrictrive laws.

never_summer
March 12, 2007, 11:54 PM
i think i just found 23 rounds of some black talons my dad had stashed away in the safe, in some umc fmj box of all things. How much would they be worth and would anyone be willing to buy them, im cleaning out the safe and will have a few boxes of stuff for sale soon.

Blue .45
March 13, 2007, 02:07 AM
I didn't even know they had become collectible. I have a box I bought years ago stashed away in my ammo box. Mine are .357 185 gr. I think. IIRC, they were marketed as hunting loads.

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